When: Mondays, 21:00 EST, #amv-review on synirc.
BONUS:#amv-review wrote:Apr 01 09:59:42 <Kionon> Okay, review time.
Apr 01 09:59:59 <Bashar> i think my cough finally broke... after 4 fucking weeks
Apr 01 10:00:05 <Driftroot> oh great
Apr 01 10:00:24 <Kionon> Bashar: since you like the video, how about you spend a few minutes running through the technical flaws, so we can move on?
Apr 01 10:00:48 <G_Q> Let me guess ... you notice the variable ARs, also?
Apr 01 10:00:49 <G_Q> >_>
Apr 01 10:00:50 <Bashar> heh, well AR - and i didn't know when i was betaing so i feel bad
Apr 01 10:00:52 <Driftroot> *gasp*
Apr 01 10:01:18 <Bashar> because i hadn't seen at least one of the series
Apr 01 10:01:31 <Kionon> AR is the one that kills me, yes, but there are others.
Apr 01 10:01:35 <Bashar> and i know how much some random serie's character designs suck
Apr 01 10:01:40 <Driftroot> yeah but...there are a bunch
Apr 01 10:01:44 <G_Q> The mix was so-so.
Apr 01 10:02:01 <Bashar> *series'
Apr 01 10:02:26 <Kionon> In addition to AR some of the series were not cropped correctly.
Apr 01 10:02:50 <Driftroot> Video quality was poor on Bleach, in particular...
Apr 01 10:02:57 <G_Q> Actually, it was all variable.
Apr 01 10:03:05 <Kionon> Further, I felt several of the series were overfiltered.
Apr 01 10:03:10 <G_Q> Some of the FMA was sharp, others were fuzzy.
Apr 01 10:03:16 <G_Q> Same with the Naruto
Apr 01 10:03:34 <Driftroot> Yeap, interlacing kept cropping up, too.
Apr 01 10:03:39 <Bashar> some source were fansubs - i provided at least oen episode of bleach
Apr 01 10:03:40 <G_Q> Couldn't figure out why one was nice-looking while the other looked like a washed tape.
Apr 01 10:03:43 <Kionon> Yeah, I caught the interlacing too.
Apr 01 10:03:45 <godix> Kio got it right. She fucked up the filters. Probably figured why use one sharpening tool when she has 4 available so used em all.
Apr 01 10:03:50 <G_Q> Ah, that would explain it.
Apr 01 10:04:16 <Bashar> which is funny because i owned 11 discs of bleach
Apr 01 10:04:49 <G_Q> See, I had a comparitor running through my head while viewing this one.
Apr 01 10:04:49 <Bashar> and would have burned a copy - but i was really busy
Apr 01 10:05:07 <godix> Bleach, Inu Yasha, and Naruto were especially bad. Damn, when are companies going to release DVDs of those anime so people can quit using fansubs?
Apr 01 10:05:12 <Driftroot> It's also a little dicey switching between different source footage from the same series. I really noticed the characters being "off" model, the animation quality changing, etc.
Apr 01 10:05:12 <G_Q> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=116026
Apr 01 10:05:56 <G_Q> Though, The Race also made me think a bit about the overlaid video cutouts in this vid.
Apr 01 10:06:13 <Bashar> the early bleach were DVDs -only fansub was the later ones that aren't out yet IIRC
Apr 01 10:06:17 <G_Q> That's what they looked liked ... cut-outs. :\
Apr 01 10:06:18 <Kionon> Oh, and more lensflare than a VicBond video. Not really a technical flaw, but it should be.
Apr 01 10:06:29 <G_Q> I liked the flares.
Apr 01 10:06:35 <G_Q> Just not enough done with them.
Apr 01 10:06:51 <G_Q> Also didn't do much for the vid in general.
Apr 01 10:06:51 <Driftroot> Mmm, that was my complaint. If you're going to use eyecandy, use it so that it doesn't seem out of place.
Apr 01 10:06:58 <godix> Technically it wasn't bad. Wasn't good either but definately was better than the 'man she fucked this up so badly the video is unwatchable because of it' level.
Apr 01 10:07:08 <godix> Although the AR thing comes kinda close to that point.
Apr 01 10:07:08 <Driftroot> Almost all the effects in this AMV tripped me up.
Apr 01 10:07:12 <Bashar> i liked the color variance though - you don't usually see that
Apr 01 10:07:34 <Kionon> The effects were used sparingly, but unwisely.
Apr 01 10:07:42 <Kionon> They made no sense and in general added nothing.
Apr 01 10:07:45 <Driftroot> In part because they were used sparingly...
Apr 01 10:07:50 * G_Q references the aforementioned cut-out with lipsync
Apr 01 10:07:59 <Kionon> I love the piano key ripples, but they are not appropriate for this video.
Apr 01 10:08:03 <Driftroot> yeap, that was a crowd thing, I suspect.
Apr 01 10:08:33 <Driftroot> Bashar - did she make this AMV explicitly for Anime Boston?
Apr 01 10:08:34 <G_Q> It was, since the "2.0" version took that out (so the editor claims)
Apr 01 10:08:52 <G_Q> Didn't find a link to this 2.0 mentioned.
Apr 01 10:08:55 <Bashar> yea, she did
Apr 01 10:09:06 <Bashar> or at least i was led to believe so
Apr 01 10:09:14 <Driftroot> Mmm, that can influence one's editing decisions big time.
Apr 01 10:09:25 <Bashar> i think the effect work made it a bit more whole even if it wasn't all done that great
Apr 01 10:09:25 <Kionon> It's called pandering.
Apr 01 10:09:32 <Kionon> It's very clearly what happened here.
Apr 01 10:09:36 <Driftroot> Ah, that's the word, thanks Kio.
Apr 01 10:09:59 <Bashar> it would seem... lacking somehow if it wasn't there somehow
Apr 01 10:10:09 <godix> I will give her this much. At spots she does movement and action very well. Of course she fucked it all up with an attempt at drama and comedy but still, there are bits here and there that actually don't make me physically il.
Apr 01 10:10:23 <Kionon> Oh it
Apr 01 10:10:28 <Kionon> 's a fine action video.
Apr 01 10:10:35 <Kionon> If she had stuck to action.
Apr 01 10:10:50 * G_Q agrees.
Apr 01 10:10:57 <godix> Yeah. Mixing genres is hard. It requires talent to do it well. She didn't.
Apr 01 10:11:02 <Bashar> in the betas i saw there were 90% montage and 10% action shots
Apr 01 10:11:16 <Bashar> more of an upbeat montage than an action
Apr 01 10:11:25 <Bashar> and... AB has a category for that
Apr 01 10:11:26 <Driftroot> Now see - godix we've been over this already - I gave her props for inserting that drama element.
Apr 01 10:11:32 <Bashar> which kinda influences decisions
Apr 01 10:12:04 <Kionon> She also had some scene choices that made absolutely no sense.
Apr 01 10:12:15 <godix> Driftroot: The drama element killed the action enjoyment. The action element killed the drama part. The comedy element just killed fucking everything.
Apr 01 10:12:24 <Kionon> Like the kids with the spray paints in the beginning. Like, what?
Apr 01 10:12:39 <godix> To make drama/action work you have to show a link between the drama and action. She didn't.
Apr 01 10:12:41 <Driftroot> Well, like I said, we've been over that.
Apr 01 10:12:48 * G_Q points to the link he posted.
Apr 01 10:12:54 <godix> The same can be said of multi-anime. To make it work you need to show a link between the animes and she didn't.
Apr 01 10:12:56 <G_Q> That's better. Trust me.
Apr 01 10:13:05 <Bashar> it's basically jihaku with 1/8 the anime and more action
Apr 01 10:13:13 <Driftroot> I think the link was there, not enough to make this hardcore action or hardcore drama, but it was there.
Apr 01 10:13:25 <Kionon> The link was superficial at best.
Apr 01 10:13:34 <Driftroot> I didn't say it was great.
Apr 01 10:13:45 <Kionon> These series were chosen because of their mass-appeal.
Apr 01 10:13:53 <Bashar> oh, it had a link and it was focused on one simple point
Apr 01 10:13:58 <Bashar> shonen jump series aren't deep
Apr 01 10:14:11 <Bashar> they have very broad universal themes in them
Apr 01 10:14:11 <Kionon> She knew that every time Kagome, Naruto, and Shana showed ip the kiddies would go wild and pee themselves.
Apr 01 10:14:16 <Bashar> so they can be linked
Apr 01 10:14:23 * G_Q is still waiting for the Shojo Beat multi-anime
Apr 01 10:14:25 <Driftroot> My attitude is: this song isn't all sparkly happy, so there has to be some angst in here big time, but that makes the fangirls/fanboys happy, so for that purpose it works.
Apr 01 10:14:32 <G_Q> >_>
Apr 01 10:14:57 <godix> In about 10 seconds we went from man chopping demon in half with an insane look on his face, guy getting something shoved through his stomach, to person electrocuting someone else, back to someone getting stabbed (different person this time) and then finish off with someone getting punched in the face.
Apr 01 10:15:30 <godix> Sorry, there really isn't a link between those things of than perhaps 2/5th of them involved stabbing people. Although I don't think the videos theme was supposed to be 'Hey, I can see his intestines'
Apr 01 10:15:33 <Driftroot> The song supports that kind of imagery, though. It's angsty teen drama.
Apr 01 10:15:41 <Kionon> The scenes fit an overall theme, sure, but that overall theme is very, very broad.
Apr 01 10:15:45 <Bashar> it's not really about pandering to the "i like this series so i'll vote for this AMV" crowd - i know Wendy enough to know he hates those people. It's connecting series together in very broad strokes
Apr 01 10:16:15 <Bashar> and with anime that have simple plots that make heavy use of archetypes it's kinda easy
Apr 01 10:16:22 <godix> Well in broad strokes they're all cartoons. So yeah, I guess there is a link there. Still doesn't mean these particular anime really have any bearing on each other.
Apr 01 10:16:35 <Kionon> Bashar: no, if this is the result, it clearly is not that easy.
Apr 01 10:16:43 <Bashar> you can call that being cheep, but it's not pandering in the sence we usually get up in arms calling audiences sheep about
Apr 01 10:16:46 <Driftroot> So on that account we agree it didn't work out so well, godix.
Apr 01 10:16:53 * Driftroot cheeps
Apr 01 10:16:55 <Driftroot>
Apr 01 10:17:31 <Bashar> they all have similar conflict and character personalties
Apr 01 10:17:41 <Bashar> which is why montage works
Apr 01 10:18:01 <Bashar> *cheap (typing fast)
Apr 01 10:18:11 <Kionon> Yeah, the video says "life kinda sucks for these people." Okay. Great. That's not enough to make me slightly entertained, let alone actually care about the theme.
Apr 01 10:18:12 <Driftroot> I personally feel it was a little too montagy...I've seen all but one of these series and I barely "got" some of what was in this AMV.
Apr 01 10:18:32 <godix> That's like saying Fight Club, Die Hard, and the latest jackie chan film are all about fighting so clearly they belong together in a video.
Apr 01 10:18:45 <G_Q> Good point.
Apr 01 10:18:58 <Bashar> but it works well at a Con where the audience are mostly socially inept teens
Apr 01 10:19:10 <Kionon> Yes, it does. That's pandering.
Apr 01 10:19:18 <Bashar> that's knowing your audience
Apr 01 10:19:19 <Kionon> Because inept teens are sheep.
Apr 01 10:19:24 <Driftroot> The song itself is a pandering pop song.
Apr 01 10:19:47 <Kionon> DriftRoot has a point.
Apr 01 10:19:53 <Bashar> indeed
Apr 01 10:20:04 <Bashar> most AMVs use pop songs
Apr 01 10:20:10 <Bashar> which means they are all pandering??
Apr 01 10:20:23 <G_Q> Not really.
Apr 01 10:20:23 <Kionon> That was her point, not mine.
Apr 01 10:20:25 <Bashar> to some extent
Apr 01 10:20:27 <godix> Well we aren't at a con. We're in IRC. And the video was uploaded to the org. So what does 'it works at a con' have to do with jack shit besides the fact she was obviously pandering?
Apr 01 10:20:28 <Driftroot> You can't do what she did with this AMV without realizing the song itself is just glutted with teen angst...you've got to take advantage of that.
Apr 01 10:21:09 <Driftroot> Ok, you don't "have" to take advantage of it, but she did.
Apr 01 10:21:13 <Bashar> it goes to constructing an idea - work with what you have
Apr 01 10:21:13 <Kionon> Take advantage? I think if there wasn any advantage to using the content of this song, she failed to do it justice.
Apr 01 10:21:37 <Driftroot> Oh, I don't know, she won an award, didn't she? It worked, I'd say.
Apr 01 10:21:49 <Kionon> So has godix/
Apr 01 10:21:56 <G_Q> Depends on the competition.
Apr 01 10:22:00 <G_Q> Always does.
Apr 01 10:22:04 <Bashar> it could have had better scene choices in the middle and near the end, but aside from that, i think it worked
Apr 01 10:22:19 <godix> Most cons awards are 'Well everything submitted sucked but this one wasn't quite as bad as the others so....'
Apr 01 10:22:33 <Kionon> This video was chosen precisely for the fact that was going to stir controversy because it had won an aware many people thought it didn't deserve.
Apr 01 10:22:39 <Kionon> d
Apr 01 10:22:40 <godix> The song and the theme would have been far far better served with a single anime. MAYBE two.
Apr 01 10:22:46 <Bashar> the competition was actually higher in that category than in any other, but that's beside the point
Apr 01 10:22:49 <Kionon> That's what I was thinking.
Apr 01 10:22:53 <Kionon> One source.
Apr 01 10:23:08 <Kionon> Even if it was Yasha or Naruto or Bleach.
Apr 01 10:23:19 <Driftroot> But would it have still been a "fun" video? Or just sunk into drama/action?
Apr 01 10:23:22 <godix> I'm not saying she didn't deserve the award. I haven't seen the competition. Maybe she really did make the best vid submitted. I'm saying the video sucked regardless of if it won an award or not.
Apr 01 10:23:36 <Kionon> I don't find this video fun in the slightest.
Apr 01 10:23:42 <Bashar> godix: skittles2 was one of the other vids
Apr 01 10:23:53 <godix> You mean chii's thing?
Apr 01 10:24:05 <Kionon> attack of the otaku?
Apr 01 10:24:12 <Driftroot> Yeap
Apr 01 10:24:28 <G_Q> Hmm... that's a bit of a surprise.
Apr 01 10:24:30 <Kionon> Well, I know which one I'd have voted for.
Apr 01 10:24:35 <godix> I liked that one personally. Good fun upbeat vid. Although I can easily understand why some wouldn't like it.
Apr 01 10:24:39 <G_Q> Kio: Neither one?
Apr 01 10:24:40 <Bashar> so nobody though this had a chance
Apr 01 10:24:41 <G_Q>
Apr 01 10:24:46 <godix> But that's not the point, chii's video isn't the topic tonight.
Apr 01 10:24:50 <Bashar> with all the Ouran fangirls
Apr 01 10:24:57 <Kionon> jeeks: I love Attack.
Apr 01 10:25:11 <G_Q> So do I
Apr 01 10:25:12 <G_Q> I was kidding
Apr 01 10:25:32 <G_Q> (It's that day where you are, isn't it?)
Apr 01 10:25:41 <Driftroot> I have a feeling it won, if it actually won, because of the drama elements. It gave it more depth than the other videos in the category.
Apr 01 10:25:46 <Kionon> So it is/
Apr 01 10:26:04 <Kionon> Depth? See, we're going to disagree on this.
Apr 01 10:26:13 <godix> Although chii's video does kinda highlight how to do an upbeat mutli-anime video right. You don't even try for a point. Just use fun scenes because they're fun. You insert drama elements and people start looking for a theme and often not finding one or at least not much of one.
Apr 01 10:26:17 <Kionon> I think this video had no depth at all. An attempt at depth.
Apr 01 10:26:55 <Bashar> it definitely had action and a section of... not drama... but "sadness" i suppose
Apr 01 10:27:00 <Kionon> Or maybe godix is right. There is no depth, but we sure are lead to believe there is some overall meaning here.
Apr 01 10:27:00 <Driftroot> Attempt at depth is still more depth than a blatant NON attempt at depth.
Apr 01 10:27:22 <godix> I get the feeling any 'depth' is there because the editor went 'The song is kinda slow at this spot. I can't do upbeat scenes in a slow spot can I? gotta think of a theme. Hmm, how about adversity? It's not like EVERY FUCKING ANIME IN EXISTANCE IS ABOUT ADVERSITY IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER"
Apr 01 10:27:40 <Driftroot> godix is yelling @_@
Apr 01 10:28:02 <Bashar> overall meaning... perciverence?
Apr 01 10:28:13 <godix> I mean hell, conflict is one of the core parts of a story. Without conflict you don't have a story. So a video about conflict really is just another way of saying 'I included anything I thought would make fangirls wet their panties and came up with a bunch of BS tying it together'
Apr 01 10:28:14 <Kionon> Perserverence, see godix's caps.
Apr 01 10:28:19 <Bashar> it's very simple and doesn't take much effort at all - but it's a concept
Apr 01 10:28:40 <Kionon> So you seem to suggest then that her effort was low here.
Apr 01 10:28:52 <Kionon> That's not exactly a compliment either.
Apr 01 10:28:53 <Driftroot> I think we all agreed on that already.
Apr 01 10:29:02 <Bashar> not that effort was low, that concept was simple
Apr 01 10:29:03 <godix> I think the technical mistakes and her explanation of the technical mistakes indicate low effort.
Apr 01 10:29:33 <Bashar> it could have been made better if worked on longer - definately
Apr 01 10:29:34 <godix> In addition to that, the theme was so broad that ANYTHING could have been used. Which leads to the question of 'so why'd she use what she used then?' and the only answer I can come up with is pandering.
Apr 01 10:29:40 <Kionon> I have to agree with godix. The thread, if we can include it, does tend to leave a bad impression of her work ethic.
Apr 01 10:29:45 <Driftroot> I didn't read much of that thread, btw, I only caught a few things from it...
Apr 01 10:30:10 <Bashar> con deadline =/
Apr 01 10:30:20 <Kionon> So? Don't enter.
Apr 01 10:30:38 <Bashar> the only reason she edits nowadays is to enter AB
Apr 01 10:30:42 <Kionon> I may not have Strawberries done by acen, am I going to send it anyway? No.
Apr 01 10:30:44 <Bashar> same with me
Apr 01 10:31:01 <Kionon> Well, isn't that a problem?
Apr 01 10:31:14 <godix> Driftroot: Some people pointed out some legit complaints. She blew it off as not having time and those complaints were irrelevent because she won awards and everything. That annoyed me so I flamed. And that's the announcement thread in a nutshell.
Apr 01 10:31:26 <Kionon> When your sole goal is to gain approval of a people that only responsd to pandering?
Apr 01 10:31:27 <Bashar> it's not a good excuse, but it is the reasoning
Apr 01 10:31:32 <G_Q> Don't post a vid until you think it's ready.
Apr 01 10:31:37 <Driftroot> godix - thanks, got it.
Apr 01 10:31:41 <G_Q> That's as good a maxim as any.
Apr 01 10:32:08 <Driftroot> Ah, but you can work in a vid forever and never feel it's ready - at some point you just have to put it down and walk away.
Apr 01 10:32:18 <G_Q> True.
Apr 01 10:32:19 <Kionon> Sure, she knew her evidence. She worked that angle like a pro.
Apr 01 10:32:23 <godix> The thing is, what you send to the con because of time pressure doesn't have to be the same as what you upload to the org.
Apr 01 10:32:23 <Driftroot> look at me, saying this! I know this too well!
Apr 01 10:32:29 <Kionon> But then she decided to post it on the org, and let us have at it.
Apr 01 10:32:31 <Driftroot> It doesn't???
Apr 01 10:32:32 <Kionon> That's the issue here.
Apr 01 10:32:33 <G_Q> I have three I'm releasing in a row next week before I premiere them at the convention.
Apr 01 10:32:43 <Bashar> godix: those reactions were taken out of context to be fair. She's not that type of person
Apr 01 10:32:45 <godix> IT's entirely possible to send what you'd call a beta to the con because of deadlines then continue working on the video and uploading a better version.
Apr 01 10:32:52 <Kionon> If you don't think it's org quality, take your award, polish it, and leave it offline.
Apr 01 10:32:59 <Driftroot> Wait, I could have kept working on 'Bustin?? @_@
Apr 01 10:33:03 <Driftroot> Oh maaaan....
Apr 01 10:33:30 <Bashar> it's an issue of proving the video to the hundreds of people that want to download it right away
Apr 01 10:33:45 <godix> Bashar: Maybe. It was someone besides her that brought up the award thing to begin with. Still, 'i won an award' doesn't mean jack fucking shit. Considering I've won three awards at cons before I know what I'm talking about here. Award doesn't equal quality.
Apr 01 10:33:51 <Bashar> why it was announced... idk
Apr 01 10:34:23 <Bashar> it implies something... though only if the con is reputible
Apr 01 10:34:38 <godix> Bashar: I don't know AB's deadlines but I'm quite sure she had to have the video int heir hands weeks before the con. Which means she had weeks to make it better and still be able to upload right after the con
Apr 01 10:34:56 <Kionon> godix has a point there.
Apr 01 10:34:57 <Driftroot> Unless she was like me and didn't know better. But probably not.
Apr 01 10:35:30 <Bashar> hell, i've sent "meh" work to a small con and won every other award they had there - but if someone said they won AWA Masters that has to hold some weight
Apr 01 10:35:32 <Kionon> But even if she did have to get it in by a deadline, we're talking at least the basics could have been covered.
Apr 01 10:35:36 <Driftroot> Would a few weeks have made the kind of difference needed, though? It was a little late at that point to go back and fix those aspect ratios, among other things.
Apr 01 10:35:46 <Kionon> I have never seen any good excuse, including time, as a reason not to format properly.
Apr 01 10:35:47 <godix> Bashar: I won at acen. Twice. Which is definately one of the main 'amv' cons. It still doesn't mean jack shit. Especially since I freely admit my videos suck, at least the ones that won.
Apr 01 10:35:59 <Kionon> AVS script, five seconds, gogogogo.
Apr 01 10:36:14 <G_Q> That's how I'd fix it.
Apr 01 10:36:17 <Driftroot> Mmm, yes, but she could have done that to begin with, and she didn't.
Apr 01 10:36:19 <Bashar> oh, definately
Apr 01 10:36:29 <Driftroot> So I doubt she'd have bothered after the fact.
Apr 01 10:36:32 <Bashar> the reaction was quite obviously defensive
Apr 01 10:36:49 <Kionon> No, I'm sorry, I could correct her video NOW.
Apr 01 10:36:55 <Kionon> In maybe an hour.
Apr 01 10:36:56 <godix> driftroot: There are people that can bang out completed videos that are far more technically complex than this one was in a few days. She had weeks to do nothign mroe than go fix her AR. It ain't complex and it isn't THAT time consuming.
Apr 01 10:37:01 <Driftroot> Can you correct my video now?
Apr 01 10:37:04 <Kionon> The overfiltering shit I can't fix.
Apr 01 10:37:18 <G_Q> *cough*Ileia*cough*
Apr 01 10:37:20 <Kionon> But I can fix the aspect ratio and the cropping issues.
Apr 01 10:37:25 <Driftroot> ok FINE but I'm just saying that if she's not going to fix the AR for a COMPETITION why should she fix it for the ORG?
Apr 01 10:37:32 <Driftroot> No, Kio, messed up AR.
Apr 01 10:37:50 <godix> driftroot: which right there says something about the mentality going into this video doesn't it?
Apr 01 10:38:00 <Driftroot> Yes, that's my point.
Apr 01 10:38:04 <Kionon> godix typed it out before I got it.
Apr 01 10:38:18 <Kionon> And that shows effort is low.
Apr 01 10:38:27 <godix> ah sorry. I musta got lost. I thought you were on the semi-defending her decision to leave mistakes in side. My appologies
Apr 01 10:38:28 <Driftroot> Yes.
Apr 01 10:38:30 <Kionon> If effort was high, she'd have tried.
Apr 01 10:38:49 <Driftroot> No no...I was pointing out she could have had all the time in the world and it wouldn't have made a difference.
Apr 01 10:38:57 <Driftroot> Not given the mistakes that were made.
Apr 01 10:39:04 <Driftroot> "mistakes"
Apr 01 10:39:37 <Bashar> i agree it should't have been put up until it was fixed, but she's really busy... lots of personal stuff i don't want to bring up.
Apr 01 10:40:00 <Kionon> Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, "to fall is not to fail, you fail when you don't try." She failed on the effort scale because she didn't try.
Apr 01 10:40:45 <Driftroot> Mmm, well, I'm busy too, I work 7 days a week, I'd never submit an AMV to a con with messed up AR.
Apr 01 10:40:59 <Driftroot> I almost didn't submit mine as it was, because of the compression problem.
Apr 01 10:41:00 <Kionon> ...DR: zing.
Apr 01 10:41:06 <Kionon> My thoughts exactly.
Apr 01 10:41:18 <Bashar> i'd normally agree because i'm an ass, but knowing the person makes it difficult
Apr 01 10:41:38 <Driftroot> I didn't say that because I'm an ass, I said it because it's true.
Apr 01 10:41:42 <Bashar> saying things about her work ethic that is
Apr 01 10:41:56 <Kionon> We're judging the video.
Apr 01 10:41:58 <godix> That's where we're different. I don't give a fuck who it is, if the video has stupid noob mistakes then you fix them before release or I consider you a person who is no better than a stupid noob.
Apr 01 10:42:03 <Kionon> I'm sure she's a wonderful person.
Apr 01 10:42:11 <Driftroot> She was very nice when I met her.
Apr 01 10:42:21 <Kionon> None of this should be taken personally.
Apr 01 10:42:25 <Bashar> drift, i meant kionon, not you
Apr 01 10:42:30 <Driftroot> oh yes, Wendy: I'm a stupid idiot. I use Premiere Pro 7.0, NOT 6.5. Sorry!
Apr 01 10:42:33 <godix> So she didn't have time to do it right. Fine, I can understand that. But don't release something wrong because of it. Just don't release.
Apr 01 10:42:43 <Driftroot> oh, well, still
Apr 01 10:42:47 <godix> Or, if you're me, find some smart ass way to make a really short video
Apr 01 10:42:49 <Bashar> the person is the project when it comes to the discussion on "effort" though
Apr 01 10:43:04 <Bashar> you're really making judgement on the person's work ethic
Apr 01 10:43:12 <Kionon> Did she have the technical skill to make this work?
Apr 01 10:43:17 <Driftroot> When all we have to judge is their work, that's the way it goes.
Apr 01 10:43:19 <Bashar> as it pertains to that piece of work
Apr 01 10:43:32 <Kionon> I mean, can she crop, can she set correct ar, can she deinterlace, can she filter?
Apr 01 10:43:54 <Bashar> not so sure about the filtering... i actually doubt that
Apr 01 10:43:57 <Driftroot> Basically, the only excuse for this is ignorance.
Apr 01 10:44:01 <Kionon> If the answer is yes, and she didn't, and didn't because she didn't want to make the effort, then we can judger her as anartist.
Apr 01 10:44:21 <Driftroot> an anartist...it's a new word. lol
Apr 01 10:44:22 <godix> She had technical mistakes that are not all that hard to fix. She's been around long enough I will be nice and assume she's smart enough to know what she is doing. Which means the only reason for the mistakes is not giving a fuck. And if she doesn't give a fuck about her video why should anyone else?
Apr 01 10:44:44 <Kionon> ...godix goes and makes my point much less diplomatically, but essentially accurately.
Apr 01 10:45:14 <Driftroot> this #review has explored new technical territories this evening, I must say.
Apr 01 10:45:36 <Kionon> That was the point. I felt this video really had a lot to offer as far as discussion.
Apr 01 10:45:39 <Kionon> I wish more people had come.
Apr 01 10:45:43 <godix> ACtually we're kinda obsessing over it. Shall we move on to a different topic about this video?
Apr 01 10:45:56 <Bashar> the footage prep... i don't think she really does get it to tell you the truth
Apr 01 10:46:01 <Driftroot> Maybe this is better though, Kio, more people and it would get really crazy in here.
Apr 01 10:46:05 <Kionon> Fine, move along, move along, like I know you will, godix.
Apr 01 10:46:09 * Kionon runs.
Apr 01 10:46:15 <Driftroot> very nice, Kio LOL
Apr 01 10:46:24 <godix> bashar: After doing this for like a decade she still doesn't know what she's doing?
Apr 01 10:46:27 * Bashar sees what you did thar
Apr 01 10:46:42 <Bashar> 15 years - mostly pre computer
Apr 01 10:46:59 <Kionon> That isn't an excuse.
Apr 01 10:47:10 <Kionon> I was taught about AR when I was working with film.
Apr 01 10:47:20 <Kionon> Does she have any training?
Apr 01 10:47:21 <godix> Kionon: When NK turns you into ash I for one will celebrate. I might even start a dedicated to kionon video that shows you as much respect as I showed sammy, my wife, katrina victims, and sailor earth's mep
Apr 01 10:47:26 <Bashar> well, yea... idk what the AR issue was
Apr 01 10:47:35 <Bashar> i was more talking about filtering and shit
Apr 01 10:48:05 <Kionon> filtering is very hit and miss.
Apr 01 10:48:11 <Kionon> I have a tendency to overfilter too.
Apr 01 10:48:22 <Kionon> So I'm not harping on that one as much as I could be.
Apr 01 10:48:22 <Driftroot> Filtering is scary stuff. @_@
Apr 01 10:48:36 <Bashar> i don't feel right telling anyone how to do it... because i don't know shit about it =/
Apr 01 10:48:44 <godix> If she wouldn't use fansubs as her source overfiltering would be harder.
Apr 01 10:49:02 <Bashar> at least half of that is DVDs
Apr 01 10:49:14 <Bashar> probably more
Apr 01 10:49:14 <Kionon> But at least half of it isn't.
Apr 01 10:49:19 <godix> And I ain't even saying go buy the DVDs. There are some quite nice and fairly easy to use sites which let you download isos of the dvds if you're so inclined
Apr 01 10:49:19 <Bashar> but some DVDs you need to filter more than fansubs nwoadays
Apr 01 10:49:29 <godix> On old source, yeah.
Apr 01 10:49:30 <Kionon> Yes, but the results are generally better.
Apr 01 10:49:31 <Driftroot> nevermind lovely things like Netflix
Apr 01 10:49:39 <godix> For mostly newer source like she used? I doubt it.
Apr 01 10:49:51 <Bashar> not on old source... on poorly encoded source
Apr 01 10:50:17 <Bashar> they still pop up now and again
Apr 01 10:50:30 <godix> There are enough nice looking naruto vids around that i find it difficult to believe it's a source that's hard to work with. This ain't pre-platnium eva here.
Apr 01 10:50:50 <Kionon> Oh.
Apr 01 10:50:56 <Kionon> Also, with this video.
Apr 01 10:51:07 <Kionon> I'm to blame for doing this in Mastertape too.
Apr 01 10:51:18 <Driftroot> ?
Apr 01 10:51:25 <Kionon> But FLASHES ATE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
Apr 01 10:51:28 * Bashar holds up the 2002 series that i used recently that looks like a VHS in a dishwasher
Apr 01 10:51:31 <Kionon> T = R
Apr 01 10:51:36 <Driftroot> hehehe
Apr 01 10:51:52 <Bashar> Flashes ate capslocks
Apr 01 10:51:54 <Bashar> ?
Apr 01 10:51:56 <Bashar> O.o
Apr 01 10:51:57 <Kionon> The flash transitions just pissed me off.
Apr 01 10:52:12 <Driftroot> Those were among the effects that tripped me up.
Apr 01 10:52:18 <Kionon> They hurt my head.
Apr 01 10:52:24 * Maleditus is now known as Mal|Betareder
Apr 01 10:52:30 <godix> The effects in general were annoying. Cheap ass one click you're done crap that looked pretty bad 5 years ago when they were first used and now just scream 'Hi, I suck!'
Apr 01 10:52:33 <Driftroot> It was forced, I noticed them. I do NOT want to notice them.
Apr 01 10:52:39 <godix> But she didn't do them all that much really so whatever.
Apr 01 10:52:45 <Kionon> Exactly.
Apr 01 10:52:52 <Kionon> All the effects were forced for the most part.
Apr 01 10:52:57 <Kionon> They kicked me out of the video.
Apr 01 10:53:08 <Driftroot> They assaulted us, Kio.
Apr 01 10:53:08 <Kionon> I was like "why did you have to go and do that?"
Apr 01 10:53:11 <Kionon> Yes.
Apr 01 10:53:18 <Kionon> I want to file a battary charge.
Apr 01 10:53:19 <Driftroot> I was tripped, you were kicked. It's very painful.
Apr 01 10:53:26 <godix> It was the inverse that made me go 'Wait a second, WTF are you doing? STOP IT!'
Apr 01 10:53:50 <Driftroot> And then she did, so it was ok again for you.
Apr 01 10:53:57 <Driftroot> Meanwhile, Kio and I are talking to the police.
Apr 01 10:54:03 <godix> basically.
Apr 01 10:54:16 <Bashar> inverse?
Apr 01 10:54:19 <Bashar> i missed that
Apr 01 10:54:40 <godix> one thing about Spoil and the like, they've definately raised my tolerance for bad effects. It takes quite a bit anymore for me to really think it's bad.
Apr 01 10:54:44 <Kionon> Even the ripples. I was watching the ripples because god knows they were more entertaining than whatever series happened to be underneath them.
Apr 01 10:55:30 <godix> [LOL CENSORING]
Apr 01 10:55:58 <Kionon> The atomic big bang shit in the beginning looks awful too, and it's the wrong ar. My apple ][-e could render better than that.
Apr 01 10:56:07 <godix> So yeah, the effects in here were pretty bad, but at least [not that bad].
Apr 01 10:56:24 <Driftroot> good grief -_-
Apr 01 10:56:51 <Kionon> I'm no fun, but I'm cutting that out of the log.
Apr 01 10:57:05 <godix> I kinda like the intro flashes actually. They could have been done better but if this were a simple pure upbeat fun type vid they'd work in an attack of the otaku kinda way
Apr 01 10:57:24 <Kionon> The intro flashes aren't awful. They're just tired.
Apr 01 10:57:24 <Driftroot> erm, I've got a splitting headache guys, I'm going to cut out early - sorry. Thanks for a good discussion, Kio. Hope you'll consider my recommendation. hehe
Apr 01 10:57:33 <Driftroot> Night all
Apr 01 10:57:36 <Kionon> Night.
Apr 01 10:57:37 * Driftroot has quit (Quit: Driftroot)
Apr 01 10:57:39 <godix> Kio: Oh come on, it was like the only semi-nice thing I've said about the video. leave it in.
Apr 01 10:57:48 <Kionon> Haha.
Apr 01 10:57:55 <Kionon> Okay, final thoughts>
Apr 01 10:57:56 <Kionon> ?
Apr 01 10:58:29 <Bashar> i'm so distracted right now
Apr 01 10:58:45 <Bashar> "montage power activate!" - that work?
Apr 01 10:58:52 <Kionon> No one rearry understands you?
Apr 01 10:58:58 <godix> If the video was pure upbeat/action it would have been fine. Not great, but ok. It's the drama elements and lipsync that really made it suck in my opinion. The technical shit is annoying but I can tolerate it if the video was good.
Apr 01 10:59:05 <Bashar> nobody at all ::cries::
Apr 01 11:01:11 <Kionon> This video could have been fine if it was upbeat completely, but required more integration of effects; in general a tightening of sources used. As it is, it might have worked with one or two series. The technical aspects bothered me, but what really set this video firmly in the "do not want" category is that it does nothing new with the source at all, looks like a mash up of hundreds of other videos scattered about the history of editing, and is clearly an attempt to pander for the video contest it won.
Apr 01 11:01:53 <Kionon> It didn't do anything new.
Apr 01 11:02:07 <G_Q> It was okay. I didn't mind watching it, but didn't think it had anything completely stand-outish nor memorable. The technical parts were too noticable, though, and that did really make a difference when I viewed it.
Apr 01 11:02:12 <Kionon> and contest
Apr 01 11:02:23 <G_Q> Also, nothing new or noteworthy.
Apr 01 11:02:36 <G_Q> Just a rather mixed bag.
Apr 01 11:03:13 <G_Q> It had potential, and did have a bit of effort in selecting out the scenes, but could have used more time on it.
Apr 01 11:03:31 <godix> yeah, it was beta quality at best
http://www.umbrellavideo.com/vault/shon ... %20May.zip
Archive of previous moderated discussions:#amv-review wrote:Apr 01 11:03:55 <Kionon> Okay, bonus
Apr 01 11:04:36 <godix> I like the bonus. I've had it on my HD for years now. Does a very good job of using quite limited source for building up a mood.
Apr 01 11:05:12 <Kionon> I thought it too slow in the beginning, but the last 75% of it is pure win.
Apr 01 11:05:46 <Bashar> crap - never DLed it... sounds familiar for some reason
Apr 01 11:06:15 <godix> yeah. it's the rare drama vid I actually like. Some rather pointless scene choice but that's because the source is half an hour long. Making a 5 minute video with 30 minutes of source means you're gonna use filler crap.
Apr 01 11:06:58 <Kionon> I had not seen this video before Countdown.
Apr 01 11:07:37 <godix> I don't remember when I saw it. The file of it on my HD is dated july 16th 2004 so I'll just assume that's right.
Apr 01 11:08:56 <Kionon> It's unique because it uses both voices.
Apr 01 11:09:13 <Kionon> Most voices vids use one, and almost always noboru.
Apr 01 11:09:21 <Kionon> Mikako vids, like Countdown, are very rare.
Apr 01 11:11:25 <Kionon> And it's a voices vid you like.
Apr 01 11:11:31 <Kionon> But it's one of the first.
Apr 01 11:11:36 <Kionon> If not the first.
Apr 01 11:13:51 <Bashar> it goes to show it does what it does really well when you can get the entire video not having seen the anime
Apr 01 11:14:44 <godix> Well part of that is that it's a 30 minute story. It's easy to compress the plot of 30 minutes to 5 minutes. As opposed to trying to condense hundred of episode long shows into an amv
Apr 01 11:15:45 <Bashar> that is true
Apr 01 11:16:13 <Bashar> it conveys itself well
Apr 01 11:16:35 <godix> Or, even worse, trying to grab 7 or 8 many episode long shows and tossing them together then pretending there's a common theme unifying everything.
Apr 01 11:16:53 <Bashar> you feel the emotion never having even gotten acquainted with the characters
Apr 01 11:17:48 <godix> Yeah. One part of why I liked the video though is that it glossed over the HUGE motherfucking plot hole in the anime. gave me the emotion without the 'wait a minute, this hole here blows the entire story out of the water...'
Apr 01 11:18:33 <Bashar> which is really the big thing with romance... and drama to some degree... you either rely on having your audience know everything already and just play on that, or you make the video something that shows rather than reminds
Apr 01 11:19:45 <godix> yup. That's the biggest reason I don't like most drama or romance vids. If I have to know the source to get it then you just failed at generating anything on your own and are just hoping people like the series enough to overlook that.
Apr 01 11:19:53 <Kionon> plot whole?
Apr 01 11:19:59 <godix> PLot hole.
Apr 01 11:20:06 <Kionon> -w
Apr 01 11:20:11 <Kionon> what plot hole?
Apr 01 11:20:41 <godix> The gist of the story is girl goes into space via FTL. She writes messages which take years to get back to guy because of the speed of light.
Apr 01 11:21:40 <Kionon> She's not allowed to use the FTL communication, if that's what you mean.
Apr 01 11:21:40 <godix> Reality check here. In the real world we had exactly this situation, where messages from one place took ages to get to another. It was during the age of sailing. The solution is the ships themselves carry the message. So FTL 8 light years out. Collect messages. FTL to earth and deliver messages. FTL back out.
Apr 01 11:21:55 <godix> You wouldn't send messages via light speed. No one would. That's just stupid.
Apr 01 11:22:22 <godix> Nevermind the idea the that a cell phone would be able to text message across interstella distances.
Apr 01 11:22:34 <Kionon> Eh, it's fantasy.
Apr 01 11:22:48 <Kionon> The point is what it symblizes, not the science of it.
Apr 01 11:22:50 <godix> It's a stupid plot hole and once it occured to me it really detracted from the show.
Apr 01 11:23:34 <godix> I can easily accept fantasy as the groundrules for a story. FTL is fantasy and I have no problem with that. What bothers me is that assuming your ground rules are what you pretend they are then your story just wouldn't work the way you protray it as
Apr 01 11:26:19 <Bashar> i can't picture you saying that in anything but the stereotypical gamer-nerd retainer voice... like Niel Goldman from family guy... it's making me lol so hard
SEASON 1:
2008 March 051-04 February050-25, 049-18, 048-11, 047-04, January 046-31, 045-21, 044-14, 043-07
2007 December 042-31, 041-24, 040-17, 039-10, 038-03, November 037-26, 036-19, 035-12, 034-05
October 033-29, 032-22, 031-15, 030-08, 029-01, September 028-24, 027-17, 026-10, 025-03
August 024-27, 023-20, 022-13, 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19
If you fixed problems like this, they'd be more readily accepting of the video itself, not technical aspects.