AMV Review #27: chocomel's World War III

[quadir]

The concept: free op the chosen amv, then video discussion in irc
Where: #amv-review irc.zirc.org (web client)
When: Every Monday, 20:30 EDT (8:30pm)
After: free-for-all video-related chat the rest of the week

Beta Thursdays:
Bring out your betas! Every thursday night is beta night so drop by with your betas of videos in progress or to get a sneek peek at what people are doing of late and give them feedback.

This week's video:
(chocomel) - 2007 - World War III
Category: Action
Anime: Ergo Proxy (TV) [Spoilers]
Song: KMFDM - Jihad

Bonus Video:
(K-type) - 2004 - Hale's Mom
Category: Comedy
Anime: Jungle Wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu [Spoilers]
Song: Fountains of Wayne - Stacy's Mom

Archive:
2007 September 026-10, 025-03
August 024-27, 023-20, 022-13, 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19

[quadir]

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Discussion:
IRC Participants: `Eclipse (Blake Stevens), godix, ngsilver (Nathan), Otohiko, PaperIsland (Nathaniel Sticco), Orwell, quadir (Olivier Beaton), Rave_Epic (Tim Tolan), RathiSponge (Billy Welch), teya

20:29 <quadir> Video: (chocomel) - 2007 - World War III
20:29 <quadir> Link: http://www.a-m-v.org/video/150088
20:29 <quadir> Category: Action
20:29 <quadir> Anime: Ergo Proxy (TV) [Spoilers]
20:29 <quadir> Song: KMFDM - Jihad
20:30 <Rave_Epic> This video is pretty awesome.
20:30 <Eclipse> ooh, ergo proxy
20:30 <Eclipse> was watching some real cool vid with that anime this morning
20:31 <NerdStrudel> wait.. did this dude use JUST after effects?
20:32 <Rave_Epic> - Adobe After Effects
20:32 <Rave_Epic> - Virtualdubmod
20:32 <Rave_Epic> - Zarx264GUI
20:32 <Rave_Epic> That's it, according to the prof.
20:32 <NerdStrudel> they Compressed their audio :O.. omg hax
20:35 <Requiett> That vid was fucking full of fail.
20:35 <Requiett> I mean...
20:35 <Requiett> Camman.
20:35 <godix> I think after I finish watching this video I'm gonna put on Aqua's emo video. It just seems appropriate somehow.
20:37 <NerdStrudel> oh man. This song tries to be evil and deathy, but it fails cause it's stupid
20:37 <godix> Wow. Just last night I was complaining that the only emotions AMVs show are a female idealized romance and rage. Along comes this video to prove me fucking right.
20:40 <Eclipse> lmao, i like this one part in the video description
20:40 <Eclipse> I tried to give this one a story, which required me to think, which was a task on its own!
20:50 <Otohiko> it wasn't that bad, except...
20:50 <Otohiko> why does this video make this series look like Naruto?
20:51 <godix> Otohiko; That was my first thought on seeing it. "Oh look, a DBZ/Naruto video without DBZ or Naruto"
20:51 <Otohiko> haha, I'll definitely agree with it
20:51 <NerdStrudel> Yah.. more or less mindless action with a little lyric synch here or there
20:51 <Otohiko> it's not bad, but it's not good I think
20:51 <Otohiko> I'm not sure how to op the darn thing
20:53 <NerdStrudel> he didn't allow a lip synch score.. So.. that very obvious and blatant lip synch at that one part was accidental?
20:56 <NerdStrudel> It wasn't THAT bad.. was better then that one faye vid a week or two ago
20:56 <godix> I'm not a fan of pointless action, agnst, and rage. And if there was a point to the action, agnst, and rage in this video I missed it.
21:04 <Rathisponge> I really enjoyed the pace and flow of the video, especially for the first minute
21:04 <NerdStrudel> uh.. the quality was decent and the Beat sycnh wasn't horrible
21:04 <Rave_Epic> I agree with Rathi.
21:04 <NerdStrudel> all around it just wasn't anything special
21:04 <Orwell> It has KMFDM. 'Nuf said.
21:04 <NerdStrudel> Wasn't horrible
21:05 <godix> I like the fact I don't have to watch this again.
21:05 <Otohiko> Orwell: what
21:05 <NerdStrudel> but...
21:05 <Requiett> I liked the fact that the video fits perfectly with Linkin Park - In the End.
21:05 <Rave_Epic> ANd yeah, KMFDM is instant win.
21:05 <Otohiko> Req: I agree
21:05 <eclipse> yeah, quality was ok
21:05 <NerdStrudel> it was really nothing to special or anything
21:05 <Rathisponge> I enjoyed the scene selections at some parts, when the sirens are going off at :45 and the transition at :30
21:05 <quadir> the music wasn't within my general tastes, but I always like to see what people in other styles are putting out
21:05 <teya> the sounds of the song fits the vid
21:06 <teya> i dunno about the lyrics though
21:06 <Rathisponge> I agree teya
21:06 <quadir> the org tends to be very heavy within a few types of mainstream music, or experimental
21:06 <Requiett> Pfft.
21:06 <eclipse> another thing i liked was the song title
21:06 <godix> quadir: Watch Warhearts vids. Same general musical style, much better done.
21:07 <Rathisponge> I think the lyrics were matched up well , such as when he is talking about homosapiens
21:07 <Orwell> It has some well chosen scenes in places, at times the flow worked well.
21:07 <Rave_Epic> Well, this IS his third AMV..so..yeah
21:07 <teya> i guess i can't hear the lyrics that well
21:07 <teya> "feces" stood out at one point, which.. didn't work
21:07 <Requiett> Yeah.
21:08 <Requiett> Where was the shot of a log-sized turd for that one?
21:08 <Otohiko> I thought the editing was pretty good, there was lyric sync, but there was very little connection in between everything
21:08 <NerdStrudel> Yah..I couldn't understand the lyrics to well.. What between me not paying all to much attention and This singer being a horrible.. Growler
21:08 <NerdStrudel> semi-growler I suppose
21:08 <Rave_Epic> Uh..KMFDM is far from growling.
21:08 <NerdStrudel> Semi
21:08 <NerdStrudel> SEMI!
21:08 <quadir> yeah I saw lyric sync in here
21:08 <NerdStrudel> idk.. Like I said I actually don't even remember the song
21:09 <NerdStrudel> So I don't really recall
21:09 <Rave_Epic> Then why the hell are you talking about it?
21:09 <Orwell> I thought the sequence around 1:48-1:50 or so was well done
21:09 <Rathisponge> I agree Orwell
21:09 <Orwell> The movement of the scenes matches well with the flow of the music
21:09 <Rave_Epic> Anyway, besides it being a bit dark. I enjoyed it, Quadir.
21:10 <quadir> it's so rare to see a slow paced action vid
21:10 <Rathisponge> You can hear in the background chants, and it seemed to fit very well
21:10 <quadir> story wise he kept to the same main characters throughout, which is so rare in action vids
21:11 <quadir> too often action vids keep jumping between fights with too many characters
21:11 <NerdStrudel> 1:48-1:50 was decent
21:11 <Rathisponge> I agree quadir
21:12 <quadir> so I'd have to agree, the flow was good and my expectation that action is fast paced almost worked against me for this video
21:12 <quadir> there's isnt too much flashyness
21:12 <PaperIsland> quadir: I agree, that was my biggest problem with it. As someone who hasn't seen the series, I had no idea who these people were and who I was supposed to be following
21:12 <Rave_Epic> Yeah, PaperIsland..I only know the main chick...and she's not featured that much
21:13 <teya> hrm
21:13 <teya> i totally missed the story, can someone summarize?
21:13 <NerdStrudel> There was no story per say
21:13 <PaperIsland> I think it may be because chocomel was trying to put us in the villain's shoes thematically, but didn't work hard enough to really get us to know the villains
21:13 <quadir> the video was about the 2 guys, with the mask/head shit... with a bit about "the periferal girl"
21:13 <NerdStrudel> oh
21:13 <Otohiko> I've never seen the show
21:13 <Otohiko> so I am a little disoriented
21:14 <quadir> neither have I, but I managed to follow it okay
21:14 <Otohiko> but I still think there's tons of ways it could/should've made sense
21:14 <quadir> only the blond guy threw me off
21:14 <Otohiko> one problem is that the action and stuff is just... constant
21:14 <NerdStrudel> Man.. It was to dark for me to notice any of the shit you guys are talking about
21:14 <Otohiko> there's a real lack of structure save for editing, I think
21:15 <quadir> true, with dark animes you really have to up the gamma on the vid since so many people have very dark monitors
21:15 <quadir> I have the same problem with websites, a dark background goes black on many monitors
21:15 <Otohiko> and I actually didn't mind the bleak color etc.
21:16 <Requiett> Oto: Like you have a choice where Ergo Proxy is involved?
21:16 <Otohiko> well
21:16 <Requiett> Every fucking I've seen has the same color scheme, because the coloring in that anime is made of fail.
21:16 <Rathisponge> I was able to see the video fairly well
21:17 <NerdStrudel> I have a shitty monitor.. Fairly shitty anyway, Prolly whi I couldn't see it all to well

21:17 <quadir> alright, what did people think the video could improve on?
21:17 <godix> I'll point out I have the gamma/brightness on my monitor correctly adjusted and this video was still too dark.
21:17 <teya> story
21:18 <Rathisponge> The last part of the video, from 1:30 on seemed to lose alot in the synching
21:18 <Otohiko> structure
21:18 <Otohiko> that could really be improved
21:18 <Eclipse> definitely
21:19 <Otohiko> structure and better pacing
21:19 <PaperIsland> I didn't feel like it introduced the characters well enough
21:19 <Rathisponge> The lip "flapping" at parts of the video were distracting
21:19 <teya> i dunno about the lip flap..
21:19 <Otohiko> the action editing is good, but it just goes and goes and goes
21:19 <godix> He needed to improve video quality. Like I said, it was too dark and i know my monitor is correctly adjusted for brightness and gamma.
21:19 <quadir> I thought the video was really solid. I didn't find it sucked majorly in any one area really.. it was more the lack of anything specific that caught my attention that at the end made me go "okay, what was the point of that?"
21:19 <NerdStrudel> There wasn't enough lip flap for THAT to be the big deal
21:19 <teya> it could have been made into lip synch fairly easily, it was close
21:19 <Rave_Epic> x2 Quadir
21:20 <Otohiko> quadir: I didn't think it sucked
21:20 <NerdStrudel> same
21:20 <NerdStrudel> Like I said in my OP
21:20 <Orwell> Structure, tying the various ends of the video together, either more effects or internal sync would have really helped
21:20 <Rathisponge> The ending was very abrupt for me, but the creator also points that out under video information
21:20 <godix> If he wanted to carry a story I honestly didn't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't see the anime but if he made something that requires seeing the anime to get then he should have said so.
21:20 <Otohiko> but yea, the lack of highlight is it, and I think it's a problem
21:20 <teya> yeah, it just didn't go anywhere
21:20 <NerdStrudel> It didn't suck. But it was just so UN spectacular, I kinda just shrugged it off
21:20 <quadir> I have a bright monitor, so that problem didn't affect me, but the video quality was fine. If something looks as good as the fairly high quality fansubs groups are putting out, I'm happy.
21:21 <quadir> if I wanted dvd quality, I'd buy the dvds of the anime. I don't expect it in a 3 minute video
21:21 <Rathisponge> I agree teya, if there was a story it didnt seem to develop into much
21:21 <quadir> teya: so you would of liked to see it go more drama?
21:21 <Orwell> I wish he'd given more attention to what the lyrics are actually saying, instead of just, this line says, this, that's what I'm going to put there.
21:21 <godix> The editing was totally unremarkable. There honestly isn't anything he to make this different from any of the other angst and rage videos I've seen.
21:22 <quadir> I've seen storytelling done in action before, but usually you seem to have to have pretty big non-action segments to do it
21:22 <PaperIsland> I think the editor could have changed the pace more
21:22 <teya> quadir: i don't know what you could do with that song, but the editor _wanted_ a story.. and i didn't see it
21:22 <NerdStrudel> WHere was angst and rage? I just saw Mindless action.. cept nobody got hit in the face
21:22 <Rathisponge> I felt he did at some points Orwell like with the homosapiens but then when it says never back down, I felt he just "put it there"
21:22 <PaperIsland> some slower scenes, some faster cuts
21:22 <godix> quadir: I know. I like that. In any action vid I want to see why they're fighting. If that means half the vid isn't action, fine.
21:23 <PaperIsland> The only other Ergo Proxy vid I've seen is Psychosomasis, and that manages to engage me a lot more than this one with a somewhat similar song
21:23 <Rathisponge> at :15, I didnt feel the flashing scenes were appropriate, and he didnt use anything like that later
21:23 <quadir> PaperIsland: yeah I almost felt it with the guitar BZRAW BZRAW fast cuts
21:23 <NerdStrudel> yeh.. just kinda random
21:23 <PaperIsland> I think it's a question of pace and introducing the characters
21:24 <quadir> okay, so if he had to focus on one aspect of the vid to make it stand up/improve the most, what would you work on?
21:24 <Rathisponge> at 1:47, he uses an effect to change the color which I also didnt feel was needed
21:25 <Rave_Epic> More depth, more story-telling, but..seeing as how I havent seen the anime, I have no idea what sources would be used to improve the 'story' he put in it.
21:25 <quadir> PaperIsland: IIRC that one is fast paced
21:25 <PaperIsland> In your video Nameless Requiett, you introduce the characters in the first few seconds
21:25 <quadir> Rave_Epic: so more the introduction? or the conclusion?
21:25 <Rave_Epic> Introduction.
21:25 <PaperIsland> And I think it helps the video out a lot...
21:25 <Rathisponge> I think better flow and synchronization toward the end of the video would have made me happier.
21:26 <quadir> we see all 3 main characters in the first 13 seconds of this vid
21:26 <quadir> out of sequence of important IMO though
21:26 <Requiett> The flow and synch are all fine.
21:26 <Rave_Epic> I think the biggest thing is that he uses a song that has a theme. This anime isn't...fitting the theme, really. He has a story, but he has a story to lyrics that are telling a different story, in my opinion.
21:27 <PaperIsland> But then it shows a bunch of other people and doesn't return for a while

21:33 <quadir> general thoughts? I think we just covered it though, the video didn't really "hook" me anywhere. I think tighter sync would of done it for me, it was pretty close so it's only a minor tweak. He introduces his characters, it just needs to be sharper
21:33 <Rave_Epic> x2 Quadir
21:34 <godix> It takes a lot to pull off a good action video. This guy didn't even come close. Someone needs to point him to Warhearts profile and say 'learn' since he seems to be basically an inferior copy to warheart.
21:34 <PaperIsland> quadir: Perhaps we could look at older AMVs if we don't have any modern ones that are worthy to review?
21:34 <Rathisponge> Overall I enjoyed the pace and flow of the video, especially during the first half of the video. There were definitely some pitfalls , and the flow/synch dropping off during the last half left me a lil disappointed. Overall though I enjoyed the video.
21:35 <Rave_Epic> I'd watch this video again.
21:35 <Orwell> It has potential to be a good video, but it fell in a lot of pits along the way
21:35 <Rave_Epic> I like KMFDM, I like the dark tones of the video and some stuff needs touched up
21:35 <NerdStrudel> I suppose it was ok.. Decent all around, but not special in any way
21:35 <quadir> I was a bit curious, I know some people mentioned it in passing, but who here has this type of music on their ipod and listens to it regularly?
21:35 <Rave_Epic> But for his third vid on the org, It wasn't that bad.
21:35 <quadir> I know it's not my type of music
21:35 <Rave_Epic> And I've seen a hell of a lot worse.
21:35 <Orwell> I don't have an iPod, but I loop KMFDM all the time
21:35 <Rave_Epic> I do, Quadir.
21:35 <Eclipse> kinda
21:36 <NerdStrudel> Quad: I have some Death metal/Power metal/ Heavy metal
21:36 <NerdStrudel> so.. I'm skedaddling around it
21:36 <Rathisponge> I have listened to KMFDM, I even made an AMV to them as well hehe.
21:36 <godix> Quadir: It's not my favorite style but I do like KMFDM.
21:36 <NerdStrudel> I didn't know them. and I don't care to
21:36 <godix> I gotta say, this was not a good song. KMFDM has done a lot better.
21:37 <Rathisponge> I agree godix
21:42 <ngsilver> the op was an alright video, fresh to see this kind of song not done with crazy effects, the lipsync kinda knocked it down a notch, but generally not my cup of tea

[quadir]

Reminder that it's Beta Thursdays in the #amv-review channel. If you want to check out what people are working on these days or want to get an early reaction to your video with a beta, drop in and give it a try!

[quadir]

AMV Review tonight at 20:30 EDT. We'll be focusing the discussions on the themes found within the AMV and welcome anyone who wishes to participate or listen in to join us in the IRC channel.