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Archive of previous moderated discussions:Discussion wrote:21:12 <Kionon> Wel, I like the concept.
21:12 <godix> So I can stay off topic?
21:12 <Orwell> I think this video describes itself wonderfully. 2 seconds in we see a frame of naruto, and right to the left of that we see NO.
21:12 <Kionon> I'm always a fan of older songs.
21:12 <Servo> Could we perhaps begin with discussing on "what was this about?"
21:12 <Kionon> It's just a fun, upbeat video.
21:12 <Driftroot> I didn't realize what this was about until quite a ways in.
21:12 <G_Q> Just a fun vid.
21:13 <godix> The use of multiple anime bothered me somewhat since I didn't see a point to it being multi-anime. But that's not as bad in an upbeat video as it would be in a slower drama thing
21:13 <Driftroot> Guys getting smacked by girls for calling them sugar.
21:13 <Kionon> Best video using Naruto ever.
21:13 <Eclipse> *watches*
21:13 <G_Q> I didn't think it worked well as multi-anime, either.
21:13 <Driftroot> godix: I don't really see the need for MOHS in there. This is a Naruto/YYH video...
21:13 <Kionon> I disgaree.
21:13 <Servo> I would have to say the use of anime combos really confused me. (Note: Yu Yu Hakusho and Naruto aren't the only anime in this vid.)
21:13 <godix> no, there have been better naruto vids. This is one of those where you don't go 'Oh fuck me, another damned naruto vid' though
21:13 <G_Q> It should have stuck with Naruto and Hakusho.
21:14 <quadir> G_Q: hm, only because of a prevalence of naruto to try and keep it relevant
21:14 <Kionon> For cute, fun videos, I kind of prefer multi-source.
21:14 <Orwell> The multi-anime thing may have worked if you diversified into a ton of anime, instead of just a couple.
21:14 <Eclipse> i like the lip sync
21:14 <quadir> G_Q: I was the opposite, ditch naruto, keep the old school
21:14 <Orwell> otherwise it should have been single anime with a focused point, if still fun.
21:14 <Driftroot> I wonder if there was enough footage, though.
21:14 * Driftroot is just wondering
21:14 <G_Q> Eclipse: I mostly like it. There were a few parts that looked like lip flap and not sync.
21:14 <Kionon> If it was just YYH, it'd have been much darker I think.
21:14 <Eclipse> yeah
21:14 <Orwell> I agree, the song definitely has a old feel to it, having naruto in there seems odd.
21:14 <quadir> Driftroot: I think there's tons
21:15 <godix> See I don't mind multisource upbeat vids. But if you're going to do it go all out and use like 20 sources. Limiting it to a few sources makes me try looking for 'why these sources, what do they have inc ommon?'
21:15 <G_Q> Driftroot: Of Naruto and YYH?
21:15 <quadir> maybe not for single anime though, if that's what you mean
21:15 <Eclipse> i really don't see why there's haruhi in this vid though. seems really redundant
21:15 <G_Q> 2 tons of footage.
21:15 <Driftroot> GQ: yah
21:15 <G_Q> They are both long-running series.
21:15 <godix> While with tons of sources it's just 'Oh, it's all pointless good fun. ok' and I quit thinking baout it
21:15 <Kionon> This was an AU combination, if that concept seems odd, that's because it is.
21:15 <Driftroot> I mean appropriate footage, btw, I know those are very long series.
21:15 <Kionon> I mean, for a cute, upbeat video.
21:15 <Servo> Hmmm...It seems that this vid was aiming at the "quircky romance dance" kinda feel.
21:15 <Driftroot> If this is all the editor could scrape together, though, it just makes me wonder what was left over.
21:16 <Orwell> Servo: so it should be nominated for best horror 08?
21:16 <G_Q> Some of the effects work was nice. I liked Naruto popping into the TV.
21:16 <Kionon> Oh, it had other anime in it too.
21:16 <Kionon> Haruhi and Don't Leave Alone Daisy.
21:16 <G_Q> The overlay work was mostly good, although did anyone else see a few frames where it shook for no reason?
21:16 <Kionon> and Ouran.
21:16 <Driftroot> GQ: now see, that seemed just silly to me. If there was going to be that kind of thing, I want to see more consistant use of it.
21:16 <godix> The lipsync bothered me. I rather wish the editor didn't even try.
21:16 <Orwell> Kio: Where's the Ouran?
21:16 <Servo> Yet the problem is the vid uses random sources other than Naruto and YuYu. For example 0:29 using Ouran was awkward
21:17 <Kionon> Tamaki at the piano.
21:17 <Kionon> 00:29
21:17 <Orwell> oh, hardly noticed.
21:17 <Servo> kinda throws the audience off a little
21:17 <G_Q> Hare-Guu, also.
21:17 <G_Q> It's like playing "Where's Waldo?" at times.
21:17 <Kionon> I will say, this video flowed for me, as such, I have less to say then I normall do.
21:18 <Servo> Btw, how did everyone feel about combining YuYu with Naruto in the first place?
21:18 <quadir> Kionon: it's weird, I'd say the editing flowed, even if the footage didn't
21:18 <Servo> both are different anime styles
21:18 <godix> I'm still not seeing the connection in the source though. It's like he said 'I got some naruto episodes around. I so YYH ripped. Lets just combine those'
21:18 <Kionon> Because I'm not noticing errors until other people point them out.
21:18 <Kionon> There doesn't need to be connection.
21:18 <Orwell> Maybe it's just me, but 1:39 feels more like he's going for her throat.
21:18 <G_Q> Servo: They both have their own relationship issues.
21:18 <Kionon> This is a video that doesn't require over analyzation.
21:18 <quadir> Servo: it's a fun/dance video, you're not supposed to expect grand things here
21:18 <Eclipse> yeah
21:18 <Driftroot> It's interesting, the parts with the squares...I'd rather see the main anime in the larger square and the supporting anime in the smaller. I feel like I missed the important stuff.
21:18 <G_Q> So, it works from that standpoint.
21:19 <quadir> Servo: and the fact remains that this kind of dance editing hasn't been done in a long long time
21:19 <quadir> with the black background and standalone frames
21:19 <Kionon> quadir is quite right
21:19 <Kionon> This is more like a video from my generation.
21:19 <Orwell> quadir: timecode example?
21:19 <Kionon> Kind of reminds me of something dwchang might have done before 2003.
21:19 <quadir> Orwell: 0:10
21:19 <godix> Kio: I think there does. Like I said earlier, when using a couple sources I gotta wonder why those sources specifically. If he used more and made it more random I wouldn't worry about it. but he didn't, it's like he was trying to do something with these specific anime and I keep coming back to 'why these?'
21:19 <Driftroot> hrm, really? I was thinking about doing black bckgd. with an upcoming project. @_@ Am I old school?
21:20 <Eclipse> i liked the masking =o
21:20 <quadir> it's throwback editing using throwback song with mostly throwback animes... with naruto added in for relevance to the current generation
21:20 <Kionon> godix: Maybe he only had those two sources?
21:20 <Servo> I'm also thinking what godixs is thinking
21:20 <Orwell> time to change your colostomy bag?
21:20 <Kionon> The editing prevented me from asking these questions.
21:21 <godix> Kio: See and that's what bothers me about it. It feels like a random ass 'I'll try doing something with a bit of meaning using whatever I got around' instead of going all out and being huge multi-anime with no meaning.
21:21 <Driftroot> Whatever he did, I would not have been as interested in this if it was just Naruto, say, or just YYH.
21:21 <Kionon> I think it's relevant to state that the flow was good enough that I really don't care to know why they were chosen.
21:21 <G_Q> quadir: And I'm a fan of throwback editing, so really didn't mind that :)
21:21 <Kionon> I don't think there was any deep meaning.
21:21 <Kionon> He chose to do a dual video about two couples.
21:22 <Kionon> It's fun, and old school, and I like it.
21:22 <godix> Kio: no but there was an attempt at some sort of meaning. This wasn't a toss every anime you own into it random fun vid
21:22 <Kionon> Eh, so he wanted to just highlight those two couples.
21:22 <Kionon> Maybe he likes them.
21:23 <godix> Anyway, moving on. I like the boxes. Videos rare use negative space outside the frame (not exactly the right term here but you know what I mean). I like the effect when they do
21:23 <quadir> godix: you're right, the masking seemed to be making some kind of boundry crossing
21:23 <Driftroot> If I had to pick two such series to make this kind of AMV with, Naruto and YYH are obvious choices.
21:23 <Kionon> I also liked the boxes.
21:23 <Kionon> Old school effects too.
21:23 <Driftroot> (y)
21:24 <Kionon> The masking was also done simply enough as to not make the video lose it's throwback style.
21:24 <Kionon> I felt I could have done with a bit less of it, honestly, but no big deal.
21:24 <Driftroot> I liked that this wasn't slapping an older series with spiffy new styles of effects...it doesn't seem so dated, that way.
21:24 <Kionon> Oh, I think it seems completely dated, and I <3 dated.
21:25 <godix> I do like it in that it felt like it had a simple style despite having some complex editing tricks
21:25 <Driftroot> But I didn't watch this and feel like I was watching something from five years ago...
21:25 <Eclipse> yeah same here. it had an old-school feel, even wtih a contemporary anime like Naruto. I liekd that
21:25 <quadir> Driftroot: ugh, you weren't?
21:25 <Kionon> I did.
21:25 <quadir> same
21:25 <Driftroot> Ugh, no I weren't.
21:25 <quadir> also interestingly all the old school editing is done to the old animes, naruto is always full frame
21:25 <godix> I wouldn't call it oldschool, but rather simple. Seems like it just flowed right without going 'HERE'S AN EFFECT! LOOK HERE'S ANOTHER!' like a lot of videos do
21:26 <Kionon> Like I said. If you had told me this was a dwchang video from 2002, I'd habve believed you.
21:26 -!- beauty_kit is now known as JASPER_PROMOTES_UNFAIR_VOTING_
21:27 <Servo> hmm...When we watch videos, does it ever occur to anyone that they can sometimes tell roughly when the vid was made?
21:27 <Driftroot> I guess if I saw this come out five years ago, I would have expected a lot heavier use of the masking and negative space. The editor seemed to just put it in there because it's a nifty device rather than because they wanted to showcase that effect. Five years ago, they would have been showcasing that effect.
21:28 <godix> servo: Yeah, there are certain styles/effects that can mark a video to certain years.
21:28 <Driftroot> (if they'd used it at all, because it would have been "cool"
21:28 <Driftroot> )
21:28 <Kionon> Servo: Definitely.
21:28 <Servo> the reason why I ask is for the fact that some of us would consider this "made 3 or 5 years ago"
21:28 <Kionon> Driftroot: That dependes on the editors.
21:29 <Kionon> Not three years ago. Three years ago was 2005.
21:29 <Kionon> Five or more.
21:29 <godix> Well the original video that 'inspires' certain effects use tends to be older. 3 to 5 years ago was when rotoing characters like this really hit.
21:29 <Servo> Interesting. I would consider this maybe in 2000 area
21:29 <godix> I'd consider it more recent. Post shounen bushido at least.
21:30 <Kionon> 2000? Maybe, but only as a trolling winner.
21:30 <Orwell> nah, definitely not 2000. 2003 or so.
21:30 <Kionon> I'd say 2002/2003.
21:30 <Driftroot> Ok, what I'm trying to say is that this isn't a cutting edge kind of effect any more, so why use it? Because it's fun, it's now different and it gives a unique feel to a newer series that has been used and abused up the wazoo.
21:30 <Driftroot> If I saw this five years ago, I would yawn. Seeing it now, it's a refreshing change from other current AMVs.
21:30 -!- JASPER_PROMOTES_UNFAIR_VOTING_ is now known as jenat_reno
21:31 <Kionon> I'll agree with you on that, Driftroot.
21:31 <godix> I don't think it's unique feel. I do think it is a nice use of effects without being blatent about it which is the current trend.
21:31 <Kionon> When this was the norm, I would have kept it, but I wouldn't have been as happy about its existence.
21:31 <Driftroot> So I guess it's unique in that it's not following the current trend?
21:31 <quadir> godix: unique when it comes to naruto videos?
21:31 <Kionon> Now I am grateful for anyone who does a good job with throwback editing.
21:32 * Driftroot agrees with Kio
21:32 <quadir> so I guess one big question is does this kind of editing still work?
21:32 <godix> quadir: If limiting it to a subset of one anime, yes it is fairly unique just because most naruto vids are either action or agnst. He could have done any style and been unique for naruto just because he wasn't showing fighting or crying.
21:32 <Kionon> This video was clearly nostaligic for me.
21:32 <quadir> and did it only work in this video because all that editing is done to old 80's series?
21:32 <Kionon> But yes, bias aside, I think it does still work.
21:33 <Servo> well the editing still works,
21:33 <Orwell> Quadir: Not this particular video for me as a whole, but yeah, it does work, and works rather well.
21:33 <Servo> like all editing a lot of content is dependent
21:33 <godix> I think it does. The video quality bothers me some, the multi-anime that makes me go 'why?' bothers me some. The rotoing bothers me some. So it's not a great video. But it does work.
21:33 <Servo> this style is no excue
21:33 <Servo> *excuse
21:33 <Kionon> I think you'll be hard pressed to find it using a series like EF Tale of Memories or some other content rich animation.
21:34 <Servo> there is one question i would like to address
21:34 <godix> I think it works because the video doesn't get in it's own way. You can sit there and watch it without going 'That's an effect. And that. And that.' It doesn't constantly pop you out of the flow.
21:34 <Servo> would we be watching this five years from now?
21:34 <godix> Which is because of it's editing, but not because it's 'old school'
21:34 <Kionon> godix: Exactly.
21:35 <Kionon> I watched it and did not complain about the flow at all.
21:35 <quadir> godix: just makes you hop around and sing along :)
21:35 <Kionon> I had to rewatch it to address "errors" being brought up.
21:35 <Orwell> Servo: The style, sure. This video? I won't be watching it as soon as the review ends.
21:35 <quadir> Servo: no, you'd watch the actual 80's vids in this style
21:35 <godix> servo: Probably not. It's not a great video that will stand the test of time. But it's certainly decent and better than a lot of what comes out now.
21:35 <godix> I did decide to keep it after all, which is more than I can say for 75% of the VCA finalists.
21:35 <Kionon> It's no Odorikuruu.
21:36 <Servo> Kio, but would you say it shares some elements Odorikuruu has?
21:36 <quadir> Kionon: wrong comparison
21:36 <Kionon> yes, I would.
21:36 <Driftroot> I'd say so, it worked then and it works now. You just have to be careful with what you apply it to.
21:36 <Kionon> which is why I disagree with quadir.
21:36 <quadir> I watched odorikuruu like 5 minutes ago thinking the same thing
21:36 <quadir> but on close inspection it doesn't
21:36 <Driftroot> eek, lag!
21:36 <Driftroot> man, that hasn't happened to me for YEARS
21:36 <Driftroot> this is really bad...
21:37 <godix> I agree with quadir. This isn't odorikuruu nor was it meant to be. Different styles entirely
21:37 * Kionon watches odorikuruu
21:37 <quadir> I'd say go back to kevin/demoss' old 80's videos like the twist and chantili lace
21:37 <Driftroot> This AMV also didn't beat you over the head with a "style," at least it didn't for me.
21:37 <Servo> hmmm...I have to lean more towards Kio on this one
21:37 <godix> odorikuruu was just plain out hyper dance type vid. This was a more mellow feel good vid
21:37 <quadir> if you have to try and pin it down
21:38 <Kionon> quadir: Fair enough.
21:38 <Servo> I guess I'm looking too much into the influence
21:38 <Kionon> It definitely still feels like part of the same generation.
21:38 <Servo> although I have to say the ending kinda feels too much like a tainted donuts wannabe
21:38 <Kionon> To me at least, as to what I remember.
21:38 <Kionon> ...There was the AU combination, yes.
21:39 <godix> I dunno. If I actually pay attention to the video instead of going with the flow, it's a bastardization of several different styles.
21:39 <Kionon> That was a part I could have honestly done without.
21:39 <quadir> or AD's or AD's 'Do It Right (Shake It!)' http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=50161
21:39 <godix> There's odurikuruu in there sure. But there's also shounen bushido/the race as strong influences
21:39 <quadir> Kionon: yeah, but you're looking at old music to old anime (if you take naruto and a few other random parts out)
21:39 <Kionon> There are definitely influences from that whole time period.
21:39 <quadir> godix: yeah the rotoscoping
21:40 <quadir> from the race
21:40 <godix> quadir: If you take out naruto you'd be looking at a black screen for most of this video.
21:40 <Driftroot> That was the only expendable part of this AMV for me (other than the ending) the whole merging series race bit...
21:40 <Driftroot> I was like, why?? Eh?? Oh, The Race...
21:40 <Kionon> That's why I say 2002/2003
21:41 <Kionon> This is the video I expected to see after the awads for 2001 were handed out.
21:41 <godix> Plus if it actually did copy odorikuruu I'd like it better. Odorikuruu was one of those throw so many anime into it that you don't think there's a connection beyond just plain fun scenes type vid. While i've already mentioned my issue with this one having too few sources to make a good upbeat mutli-anime vid
21:41 <Kionon> Someone looking at the 2001 hits and saying "How I edited nao plz kay thx?" and this is what you get.
21:42 <Servo> godix, I feel the same way. Especially with the Haruhi and Ouran footage in the beginning. It makes you guy "Huh!?Whys that there?"
21:42 <Servo> replace *guy with *think
21:42 <Servo> sorry
21:43 <godix> When servo and I start agreeing I start going 'what's wrong with me, I'm not really that pretentious am I?'....
21:43 <quadir> so yeah, fun video, I enjoyed it, it had some fun early turn of the millenium editing, combined with some cute rotoscoping that lead places
21:44 <quadir> final thoughts before bonus?
21:44 <Kionon> It was fun. That's really about all I have to say about it. A keeper, but nothing special.
21:44 <Orwell> Eidolon looks to be a good video
21:44 <Orwell> Oh, wait, review video
21:44 <Driftroot> It was a refreshing AMV, I think old and new AMV fans would find it fun.
21:44 <G_Q> It was a fun video.
21:45 <godix> There are some videos that get better when analyzed. You catch more of what they're doing and appreciate it. There are some videos where it's best not to think to much about what it going on and just sit back and enjoy it. This vid is the later type. The more I think about it the more I find wrong with it while when I first saw it I thought it was decent but not great
21:45 <G_Q> I enjoyed it, even with the random elements.
21:45 <Orwell> A nice throwback to an older style, but still not worth keeping
21:45 <Servo> It's better than some. Remember I'm not a big fan of upbeat vids.
21:45 <Servo> Although I have to say, this review made me appreciate some parts of the vidthat I haven't thought of before
21:45 -!- quadir changed the topic of #amv-review to: http://a-m-v.org/video/155453 | http://a-m-v.org/video/15827 | quadir@animemusicvideos.org <-- submit
21:45 <Driftroot> Well that's always good.
21:46 <Kionon> YEAH IDOLOGY
21:46 <quadir> bonus is pretty interesting
21:46 <Kionon> Bonus is only one of my favorite videos evar.
21:47 <quadir> a lip sync vid where lyric + footage = 3rd meaning, or at the least it explains in more detail
21:49 <quadir> but anyways I really like how the actions in the footage is given different meaning by the lyrics, and yet on their own neither means that
21:49 <quadir> like 0:30
21:50 <Driftroot> night all, I'll check that out tomorrow, thanks for the #review, quadir, Kio, see you on the cover of USA Today.
21:50 <Kionon> Idolology is definitely one of the videos I feel more new folks need to watch.
21:50 <godix> the bonus is one of those videos that'd make a perfect AMV Hell segment. It has one joke so present that joke and fucking end it after 30 seconds. 3:17 is entirely too much for a single joke
21:50 -!- Driftroot [user@17B078F0.D8776A48.77B702DE.IP] has quit [Quit: Driftroot]
21:54 <Eclipse> i like this vid
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