AMV-Review #33: Spatula_Castle's Go Back to Sleep

[quadir]

AMV-Review's goal is to foster a sub-community that critically analyzes videos and looks for deeper meaning in the creations editors make. It is hoped that through this process will viewers and editors alike come to better appreciate videos that are well thought out, well executed, and progress AMVs as a medium of expression.

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On Monday at 20:30 EDT (8:30pm) in #amv-review we have a moderated discussion on a recently released video.
On Thursday all evening in #amv-review editors present BETAs (come out and present yours!) to get initial feedback on AMVs in the making.

Come join us!

This week's moderated discussion video:
(Spatula_Castle) - 2007 - Go Back to Sleep
Category: Horror
Anime: Fatal Frame [Spoilers]
Song: Perfect Circle - Counting Bodies like Sheep to the Rhythm of the War Drums

Please use this thread to discuss this video, there's no need to read the IRC log, just watch the video, and start talking about it! What emotions did it evoke in you? What do you think the video taught you about the character it features?

Bonus Video:
(MysteriousRyder) - 2006 - A City to Love
Category: Action
Anime: Gunsmith Cats [Spoilers]
Song: The Strokes - juice box

After each discussion, we throw out a "bonus" video, which often doesn't lend itself perfectly to analysis, or is already well established but is worth recommending. Check it out!

Archive of previous moderated discussions:
2007 October 032-22, 031-15, 030-08, 029-01, September 028-24, 027-17, 026-10, 025-03
August 024-27, 023-20, 022-13, 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19

[quadir]

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Discussion:

20:32 <quadir> Video: (Spatula_Castle) - 2007 - Go Back to Sleep
20:32 <quadir> Link: http://www.a-m-v.org/video/151531
20:33 <DriftRoot> Happy Halloween everyone LOL
20:33 <quadir> DriftRoot: hm, I guess so eh? Wasn't on purpose
20:34 <DriftRoot> yeah, nice accidental pick :)
20:34 <MD> ooo I saw this one I think
20:34 <MD> and I liked it o.O
20:34 <Fall_Child42> nothing but pure deceitful lies
20:35 <quadir> I think you all know what this is about, try to make it productive and not stall
20:45 <Fall_Child42> I kept waiting for this video to get boring ... but it never did.
20:45 <MD> XD
20:45 <Fall_Child42> Good job on this pick judges.
20:45 <MD> I know
20:45 <purplepolecat> oh cool, I already have this downloaded
20:54 <MD> the pause in the middle of the video could have been done better
20:55 <Rathisponge> I have submitted my opinion quadir.
20:55 * DriftRoot is finished as well
20:58 <DriftRoot> wow, quadir, you were harsh
20:59 <Fall_Child42> is that some interlacing?
21:00 <quadir> DriftRoot: you ever seen the line when you leave an op that say 5= average?
21:00 <DriftRoot> Yeah, I've seen that line, I don't like it. Getting a "C" is not average, IMO, it's just a bare smidgeon above not acceptable.
21:01 <quadir> DriftRoot: ah you're one of those
21:01 <DriftRoot> Yah! Getting a C is almost failing!
21:01 <DriftRoot> I'm a massive glass is half empty individual. :D
21:01 <quadir> DriftRoot: the problem with a grade outlook to the scores is grade inflation
21:01 -!- trythil is now known as FuckTheBellCurve
21:02 <quadir> DriftRoot: but the scores were meant to be percentile, not percentage
21:02 <DriftRoot> Am I enabling inflation by considering 5 a pretty low op rating?
21:02 <quadir> so it's not you did 50% effort, it's you did the 'average effort', which is 5
21:02 -!- FuckTheBellCurve is now known as trythil
21:02 <DriftRoot> This AMV, IMO, shows a lot more than average effort
21:02 <DriftRoot> (to bring things back to the topic at hand)
21:03 <quadir> totally, I gave it a 7
21:03 <quadir> which is not only above average, but above the above average
21:03 <DriftRoot> above the above average seems more like an 8
21:03 <quadir> meaning if 10 videos were made, this video would be better then 7 of them
21:03 <DriftRoot> or is that above, above the above average?
21:03 <Fall_Child42> What is average
21:03 <DriftRoot> 5
21:03 <Fall_Child42> average for whats on the org?
21:03 <Fall_Child42> Average for amvs in general?
21:03 <quadir> Fall_Child42: your opinion of videos
21:04 <Fall_Child42> or average for what we expect to see?
21:04 <quadir> that was an easy question, NEXT
21:04 <MD> out of 10 an average would be 7
21:04 <quadir> Fall_Child42: what YOU expect to see
21:04 <PaperIsland> Technically, a 5.5 is average
21:04 <quadir> it's not "out of" 10 though
21:04 <quadir> it's 5 = average. which means 0 is way bellow average, and 10 is way above average
21:04 <Fall_Child42> because what I expect to see is honestly REALLY terrible.
21:04 <DriftRoot> I'm kind of bad, I tend to judge AMVs against themselves, not against what else it out there. As in, how much better could this AMV be...if it can't possibly get better, it gets a 10.
21:05 <Fall_Child42> it's hard for me to give a 0
21:05 <PaperIsland> quadir -- you can't give a 0
21:05 <quadir> so a 0 means 'every other video is better then this one', and a 10 is 'no video is better then this one'
21:05 <trythil> yes, considering you can't give zeros
21:05 <quadir> PaperIsland: then you can't give a 10
21:05 <Fall_Child42> especially since if it is that much below what is normal really bad
21:05 <PaperIsland> I mean, there is no option...?
21:05 <Fall_Child42> it's bordering on awesomecore.
21:05 <PaperIsland> but there is a 10?
21:05 <PaperIsland> Unless my op system is different than yours
21:05 <DriftRoot> I think 0 would be not giving an op at all...
21:05 <PaperIsland> it's not 0-10 it's 1-10
21:05 <quadir> DriftRoot: that's an interesting outlook, but you already said you judge grade-based, looking at it in a pass/fail point of view
21:06 <trythil> no, giving a zero would drag down the op average, while giving no op does nothing
21:06 <inthesto> If you conider 5 "average", then a score of 5 still implies unwatchable crap
21:06 <trythil> no pun intended
21:06 <quadir> PaperIsland: oh ;)
21:06 <DriftRoot> ?
21:06 <PaperIsland> What are you guys talking about, giving a 0? There is no 0.
21:06 <MD> agree with sto
21:06 <trythil> PaperIsland: in theory
21:06 <PaperIsland> why are we talking about theory when it's not an option
21:06 <trythil> well, ok
21:07 <trythil> it's an option if you have database access
21:07 <quadir> so my average score for this video was 6.17, which is an above average score
21:07 <PaperIsland> the lowest you can give on the org is a 1, so therefore 1 = 0 if you want
21:07 <DriftRoot> yeap
21:07 <quadir> my average given is 5.96
21:07 <Fall_Child42> Mabey PaperIsland: hasn't reached the formal operational stage yet
21:07 <Fall_Child42> :O
21:07 <Fall_Child42> I kid I Kid
21:07 <trythil> go to hell, Piaget
21:07 <Servo> This is a video where I thought the video quality was decent but the audio was horribile.
21:07 <quadir> PaperIsland: sure.
21:07 <DriftRoot> Ok, so leaving folks scathing quick comments is about as close to a 0 as most of us are going to get
21:08 <inthesto> Piaget touched David when he was a child
21:08 <MD> Servo I also felt the audio wasn't that good
21:08 <quadir> okay let's start, enough about rating systems, the reason it's not a group op is cause I bring down the group's average :)
21:08 <DriftRoot> Really? I thought that was just the song's character
21:08 <Fall_Child42> no I'm pretty sure the song is supposed to sound like that
21:08 <Rathisponge> I really enjoyed this amv, I think the editing was done very well
21:09 <Servo> MD: Well yeah, 55kb/s.
21:09 <MD> you can tell the diff between a songs "character" and bad quality
21:09 <PaperIsland> My average is 5.59
21:09 <DriftRoot> I've never heard the song before, so I can't really judge, of course, but nothing about the audio made me cringe (that wasn't supposed to make me cringe)
21:09 <MD> I sat here and listened pretty closely a few times
21:09 <Rathisponge> It gave me a true feeling of horror, especially in the beginning when the girl is approaching the screen and it keeps cutting to black
21:10 <MD> The beginning was strong
21:10 <PaperIsland> I liked it
21:10 <quadir> why?
21:10 <DriftRoot> Speaking of which - since when is someone being shown in the middle of brutal torture acceptable by 'ORG standards?
21:10 <MD> It eases you into the song well
21:10 <PaperIsland> I thought the song and images fit well
21:10 <Fall_Child42> DriftRoot It's not Gory.
21:10 <quadir> what FC said
21:10 <PaperIsland> the grainy texture fit the song's static/distortion guitar effect
21:10 <DriftRoot> ooohk then
21:10 <PaperIsland> And the editing built fairly well
21:10 <Rathisponge> I liked in the beginning when the song is creating some type of creaking sound and the girl is being slowly stretched with the ropes, it fit very well
21:11 <Fall_Child42> Perfect Circle They were Heavily influenced by Velvet Underground Right?
21:11 <quadir> PaperIsland: yeah it did, it also did a good job of hiding how horrible the older game footage contrasted with the newer
21:11 <DriftRoot> Beginning was great, yes
21:11 <PaperIsland> Yeah
21:11 <PaperIsland> It brings up a question though
21:11 <DriftRoot> In my op I did point out that it kind of built up the tension so well, however, that the rest of the AMV was not as powerful.
21:11 <PaperIsland> is it fair for us to judge the quality of the graphics which are captured as well as possible?
21:11 <Fall_Child42> I liked the Arm reaching out to touch the girl part near the end alot too.
21:11 <Fall_Child42> PaperIsland : Yes
21:11 <DriftRoot> Has anyone here played these games? I'd like to know what the original footage looked like.
21:12 <Servo> I really disliked the ending however, an abrupt cut of the file did not float my boat and no resolution was found despite the videos dark nature.
21:12 <Rathisponge> Where he keeps repeating "go to sleep" Fall_Child42?
21:12 <Fall_Child42> I have seen PS games captured better than that before.
21:12 <inthesto> STEP CUTS, FUCK YEAH
21:12 <quadir> DriftRoot: the earlier games have very little detail to the characters
21:12 <quadir> DriftRoot: like FF7 compared to FF12
21:12 <quadir> almost
21:12 <MD> the reason I did not dock the quality rating down to 8 or 7 is because I think personaly it is hard to clean vg footage XD
21:12 <DriftRoot> But the grain, the extreme lighting levels...how much was added?
21:12 <MD> and it did look good enough for me
21:13 <quadir> DriftRoot: hm, I'd say a lot, but I can't be sure
21:13 <quadir> DriftRoot: it would make the sources blend together more though
21:13 <DriftRoot> It looks like alot...
21:13 <Rathisponge> ah I was unsure of how to rate video game footage because I was unsure of how hard it was to clean MD
21:13 <MD> I felt the grain benefited the vid a bit
21:13 <quadir> because they would really contrast otherwise
21:13 <Servo> MD: Agreed, I feel the capture was decent and the degrade of quality visually fit the nature.
21:13 <DriftRoot> Yeah, the grain kind of blended everything together
21:13 <inthesto> Wait, there were multiple sources?
21:13 <DriftRoot> If this was crisp and clean, it wouldn't match the song as well.
21:13 <quadir> inthesto: it spanned 3 games accross 2 systems
21:13 <inthesto> Oh
21:14 <inthesto> I'm really smart
21:14 <DriftRoot> Yes, three sources
21:14 <quadir> inthesto: and the cg quality in each is different
21:14 <Rathisponge> I thought the grain did also help to add to the overall feeling of "horror" but it did feel overused at times
21:14 <purplepolecat> I have played all the Fatal Frame games, and I made a FF vid, and I think the footage is about as good as you can get from that source
21:14 <inthesto> I can't say I noticed
21:14 <inthesto> But I wasn't really looking for it
21:14 <PaperIsland> I don't think it was overused really
21:14 <inthesto> But yeah, the grain filter did help things
21:14 <quadir> inthesto: yeah, it did a really good job of meshing them together
21:14 <PaperIsland> where would you have not wanted it?
21:14 <purplepolecat> (Except there was interlacing in some parts)
21:14 <PaperIsland> do you have any examples?
21:14 <Fall_Child42> This video actually exhibits that Chiaroscuro a couple of times
21:14 <quadir> PaperIsland: well it's not used throughout
21:15 <Fall_Child42> That was well done
21:15 <G_Q> Op posted.
21:15 <Rathisponge> Let me find the time I didnt feel it was needed , one moment
21:15 <inthesto> Todd, making up words only makes you LOOK smarter
21:15 <MD> 2:54 the pause could have been done alot better :|
21:15 <quadir> Fall_Child42: FU
21:15 <Fall_Child42> I'm serious
21:15 <DriftRoot> Now see, I'm watching this again, and I'm wondering why the grain was so strong in some scenes and almost nonexistant in others...I noticed the latter more than the former.
21:15 <quadir> I am so not reading that wiki description right now
21:15 <G_Q> About the only thing was some interlacing in some of the footage used, but overall, I liked it.
21:15 <G_Q> DR: I think that's just part of the game.
21:16 <purplepolecat> About 50% of the game footage has heavy grain filter built in
21:16 <Rathisponge> ah at 4:00, I didnt feel the grain was needed, when the butterfly comes from the girls throat, Paperisland
21:16 <Servo> MD: I think the editor did a cut on the audio that really didn't fit.
21:16 <quadir> ooo purplepolecat reveals it!
21:16 <DriftRoot> Ok then, that's what I was kind of asking before
21:16 <PaperIsland> I will say that the biggest problem I found with it was that it went on too long
21:16 <Fall_Child42> I don't think there really is any digital effects put in here
21:16 <quadir> PaperIsland: I thought the video was over at the butterfly scene
21:16 <Servo> PaperIsland: More like repetitive,
21:16 <PaperIsland> It wasn't long for a video -- but it was long for this video, I got too used to the footage
21:16 <inthesto> Too long?
21:16 <inthesto> Nah.
21:16 <quadir> and the falling in the well or whatever
21:16 <G_Q> Paper: See, the length didn't bother me this time.
21:16 <MD> I thought the vid was was a great lenght
21:17 <DriftRoot> Length: it's hard to sustain horror...as a few short AMVs, this would have been truly disturbing.
21:17 <G_Q> The video really did keep a nice pace, imho
21:17 <quadir> PaperIsland: like that already feels like the resolution way past the climax
21:17 <PaperIsland> Yeah, I agree driftroot and quadir
21:17 <quadir> it was like in AI
21:17 <quadir> when the kid is frozen at the bottom of the ocean
21:17 <purplepolecat> Driftroot, I said something similar in my op, it's hard to do horror well especially to a longish song
21:17 <quadir> perfect ending right there
21:17 <PaperIsland> haha
21:17 <DriftRoot> Again, the beginning was so WHAM...then I just felt like I was along for the ride, in my little haunted house cart
21:17 <quadir> then the movie goes on for another fucking 20 minutes
21:17 <Servo> quadir: agreed, the video just ends up going down hill after 3:00.
21:17 <Rathisponge> I was also felt the video did sustain a little too long, which made it seem repetitive at times
21:17 <quadir> Servo: eh, I said 4:00
21:18 <quadir> at the butterfly scene
21:18 <quadir> true I could of said early but it really doesn't feel resolved yet
21:18 <quadir> it's true you're doing a bit of filler till the ending
21:18 <quadir> but I do think an ending is needed
21:18 <Servo> quadir: I was refering to the silent cut in the middle of the vid.
21:18 <DriftRoot> The ending was almost too sweet for the rest of the AMV, hugs? EW
21:18 <Fall_Child42> perhaps if we knew thae game
21:18 <quadir> I was expecting to get really tired of those cuts to the beat
21:18 <quadir> but I didn't
21:19 <Fall_Child42> Thats exactly how i felt
21:19 <inthesto> Yeah
21:19 <Fall_Child42> some more lyric synch would have been nice though
21:19 <purplepolecat> the other thing is that in the game, the horror builds gradually, and it's hard to do that in a video
21:19 <inthesto> I think it's because about halfway in, the editor uses a lot of step cuts
21:19 <DriftRoot> The synching methods were really mixed up, but they all made sense, kept me paying attention at least
21:19 <Servo> Fall_CHild42: I don't think knowing the game matters. This video depends on creepy visuals.
21:19 <Fall_Child42> I'm a big fan of lyric synch.
21:19 <Rathisponge> At around 1:29, when the ghosts come up behind the girl and she turns around to them disappearing, those type of moments and they were edited really helped to create moments of horror for me
21:19 <quadir> purplepolecat: hm, I thought the first 2 minutes of the video do a decent job of building it up
21:20 <quadir> it's obvious but it uses fast cuts to the beat to sortof make you match the heartbeat of the video
21:20 <Fall_Child42> Servo: yes but the mother brother soul transfer thing at the end may be a very appropriate ending if we had know the plot.
21:20 <DriftRoot> Yeah, the psychological aspects of some scenes were really great
21:20 <DriftRoot> Again, hard to sustain
21:20 <purplepolecat> what i mean is, the scariest parts of the game are when NOTHING is happening, it's all in the tension
21:20 <Servo> I didn't like the ending at all because of editoral decisions.
21:20 <Fall_Child42> DriftRoot: Psychological Aspects?
21:20 <MD> the ending was weak =|
21:21 <quadir> Fall_Child42: it had some lyric sync
21:21 <quadir> Fall_Child42: often it was pre-emptive sync but IMO that's the best kind
21:21 <Fall_Child42> quadir... yeah but it was randomly placed lyric synch
21:21 <Servo> The ending feels like a technical mistake to tell you in honest truth.
21:21 <quadir> where you have time for the footage to sync in before the song brings you there
21:21 <Fall_Child42> there was alot of action going on during the "go to sleep" lines
21:21 <PaperIsland> I think the ending of the video is nice for a feature length film type ending, where we need to unwind and feel happy with the characters, but for this video I thought it was unnecessary
21:21 <DriftRoot> The characters aren't just involved in a gore-fest, they're being toyed with, terrified, that's what we get to see.
21:21 <quadir> Fall_Child42: the first one is pre-empted with her restless in bed
21:22 <PaperIsland> we just want that immediate scare and suspense
21:22 <Rathisponge> I agree Paperisland.
21:22 <quadir> Fall_Child42: and later the 'go to sleep' lines seem more about _putting_ you to sleep
21:22 <Fall_Child42> there was one part where if they just switched the scenes around there would have been perfect synch
21:22 <quadir> Fall_Child42: I mean the 2nd big 'go back to sleep' has bodies everywhere on the floor, with only the guy standing
21:22 <DriftRoot> Jeez, that cut in the middle "Go back to sleep" and the door slams closed, GREAT
21:22 <quadir> and the door slamming shut on him
21:22 <quadir> yeah
21:23 <PaperIsland> what time
21:23 <purplepolecat> the best "go to sleep" lyric sync was when the tattooed woman is chasing her down the hallway, because she is trying to keep you from exiting the mansion, which would wake you up.
21:23 <quadir> it's like the guy sneaking out of the slumber party
21:23 <Servo> PaperIsland: Well even for feature length film it doesn't work because feature length depends on a well balanced resolution.
21:23 <Fall_Child42> yeah that part was good.
21:23 <Rathisponge> I thought that was very good Driftroot
21:23 <PaperIsland> I don't know what well balanced means to you Servo
21:23 <DriftRoot> I trying to find it
21:23 <Rathisponge> I agree purplepolecat, that was very well done
21:23 <PaperIsland> Can you explain
21:23 <inthesto> I thought the whole "go back to sleep" lyric sync was supposed to be like "OMG IT'S SCARY CLOSE YOUR EYES"
21:23 <DriftRoot> 2:57 door closes
21:23 <quadir> purplepolecat: oh, the sleep thing is game-specific knowledge too?
21:24 <purplepolecat> yeah, most of the gameplay in FF3 happens during your dreams
21:24 <PaperIsland> Yeah, it should have ended on something like the 2:57 door shut
21:24 <Servo> The ending is way to fast, probably because the song still is incomplete.
21:24 <PaperIsland> I think
21:24 <inthesto> Why end at 2:57?
21:24 <Servo> Visually, it works but not musically.
21:24 <inthesto> All that was build-up for the second half of the video
21:24 <inthesto> In fact, after that point is where I think the video gets into full gear
21:25 <inthesto> It goes from creepy to full-blown horror at that point
21:25 <PaperIsland> I don't mean necessarily exactly at 2:57
21:25 <DriftRoot> I kind of wish the video started when the lyrics started...it seemed to take a looonnngg time to get there, too long.
21:25 <quadir> inthesto: I tend to agree, but that after 4:00 I really couldn't see why it went on
21:25 <DriftRoot> Then 2:57 would have been about a third of the way through.
21:25 <inthesto> Because the music kept going on, duh. :O
21:25 <PaperIsland> but I wanted it to end suddenly in a cliff hanger type of way, uncertain about the characters' fates
21:25 <PaperIsland> and not just fade away
21:25 <quadir> DriftRoot: hm, the heartbeat is such an important part of setting up the mood and rythm
21:25 <PaperIsland> It's got kind of a staccato beat to it
21:25 <PaperIsland> so I think it would have worked
21:25 <inthesto> I dunno, I think you're too locked into a narrative mindset
21:25 <MD> 2:57-3:37 were the climax to me
21:26 <inthesto> Hell, the video ends with a scene of one of the chicks running down a hallway
21:26 <DriftRoot> quadir: It is, but the intro is quite long, if you look at it that way. The lyrics started and I was like "Oh...that was the intro?"
21:26 <inthesto> That's pretty uncertain to me
21:26 <PaperIsland> Yeah, no, I didn't mind that
21:26 <PaperIsland> just the minute before that
21:26 <Servo> Probably why it gets unsatisfying after half-way is probably because the climax is towards the middle of the video. After this climax, the video can't possibly get any more build-up.
21:26 <DriftRoot> Yeap
21:27 <MD> mhmm
21:27 <Servo> inthesto: Agreed, and the song feels like its still going.
21:27 <quadir> I mean plot-wise it seemed like the video was too long, watching it I didn't really feel it went nowhere at any point, and when I look at any segment, I can see what it contributes to the whole
21:27 <Fall_Child42> There IS a denumet.
21:27 <quadir> so maybe it's more a bit there for everyone
21:27 <quadir> and not every segment will fit w/ everyone
21:28 <Servo> Fall_Child42: Where?
21:28 <quadir> purplepolecat: the running to the mansion doors definitely had a 'escape this nightmare' thought though, even though I haven't played the games
21:28 <Fall_Child42> *Denoument
21:28 <PaperIsland> Well I don't think you can make a video like this for "everyone"
21:28 <Fall_Child42> *Denouement
21:28 <Fall_Child42> Fuckin french
21:28 <PaperIsland> When you choose horror, I think you choose to restrict your audience
21:29 <DriftRoot> Unless you're an AMV-Reviewer, of course. We get roped into this. :D
21:29 <purplepolecat> game knowledge is not NECESSARY to enjoy the video, it just enhances it
21:29 <PaperIsland> Haha
21:29 <Servo> Fall_Child42: Are you referring to 4:33 with the Denoument being the relationship between the male and female.
21:29 <Fall_Child42> Servo ... no ... everything after the climax
21:30 <DriftRoot> I don't mind not knowing these games at all...
21:30 <Rathisponge> in regards to the game purplepolecat, is the footage primarily in black and white?
21:30 <purplepolecat> the first game is mainly B&W, the others have muted colors
21:30 <Servo> Fall_Child42: I feel after the climax is just useless shoe leather. It really didn't feel like the vid was slowing down.
21:30 <quadir> G_Q: what kept the pace for you?
21:31 <DriftRoot> God I love that door slam
21:31 <G_Q> quadir: Mostly the tight sync work.
21:31 <quadir> DriftRoot: yeah that whole scene is really great
21:31 <inthesto> Shoe leather.
21:31 <DriftRoot> I love AMVs where there's this one scene that just sticks in your mind...
21:31 <DriftRoot> SLAM
21:31 <G_Q> The beat sync kept my attention on it, and I actually found I liked the scene work (even if it did repeat a bit)
21:31 <DriftRoot> wooo!!
21:31 <Minion> is this week worth the time? first answer is correct
21:31 <DriftRoot> YES
21:31 <Servo> inthesto: material that doesn't need to be in the video to progress.
21:32 <Minion> meh. fair enough.
21:32 <Rathisponge> I enjoyed when the editor added the red to the scenes of the dead bodies, it helped to add a feeling of horror to it
21:32 <quadir> I didn't really notice it when watching it, but the vid goes in and out of the grain, b&w, HQ cg and LQ cg... did that stick out to anyone?
21:32 <PaperIsland> Yeah, to me
21:32 <Servo> quadir: I noticed that too.
21:32 <DriftRoot> The manipulation of the video, slowing down, step cuts, all really added to the creep factor
21:32 <Rathisponge> I noticed quadir
21:32 <quadir> I thought the video did a pretty good job of giving a common feel throughout despite the differences
21:32 <DriftRoot> quadir: yes, I mentioned that before
21:32 <Fall_Child42> Shoe Leather .
21:32 <Minion> oh, tool and a scary game. this might not be totally gay. downloading now
21:32 <G_Q> Same here, especially some of the parts that were visibly interlaced.
21:32 <Otohiko> sorry guys, I missed everything again >__>
21:33 <Fall_Child42> Hey Oto
21:33 <Otohiko> yo Todd
21:33 <G_Q> Compared to the other parts of the vid, that stood out.
21:33 <quadir> G_Q: hm, yeah that's what I was trying to say about a heartbeat
21:33 <DriftRoot> I'd love to make an AMV and get to mess around with the levels like this.
21:33 <Fall_Child42> What Fabric would you consider MAMA to be?
21:33 <quadir> G_Q: it like sinks into you and keeps you going along for the ride
21:33 <quadir> like the march of the dead
21:33 <Otohiko> Fall_Child42: Fabric?
21:33 <Rathisponge> It did sound like a march quadir
21:33 <Otohiko> like, clothes fabric?
21:33 <Fall_Child42> yes.
21:33 <DriftRoot> here comes the door....
21:33 <Minion> <DriftRoot> I'd love to make an AMV
21:33 <quadir> Rathisponge: especially with the first shot being that zombie like kimono girl walking towards you
21:33 <Minion> fixed
21:34 <DriftRoot> What, I made an AMV!!
21:34 <Rathisponge> its interesting that you mention that, because it sounded like old footage of a german speech during the song
21:34 <Otohiko> is copper wire mesh a fabric?
21:34 <G_Q> You know what it is? A Bolero march beat.
21:34 <purplepolecat> the song reminds me of "join in the chant" by nitzer ebb
21:34 <Rathisponge> Ah that is interesting, a march of the dead
21:34 <quadir> the runing scene is pretty good too
21:35 <Servo> Keep in mind the song is a remix.
21:35 * G_Q runs the video again to confirm.
21:35 <Otohiko> sorry guys, can't really be in on the discussion today, I'm rather burned out on critical analysis
21:35 <Otohiko> cause that's all I do at school and work
21:35 <Otohiko> and I just got home
21:35 <quadir> Servo: no, it's not
21:35 <G_Q> I'm humming along a Bolero march, and that's what it is.
21:35 <inthesto> Clearly you should be doing critical synthesis
21:35 <quadir> Servo: the video is
21:35 <MD> XD
21:35 <G_Q> No wonder it sounded familiar the first time.
21:35 <DriftRoot> A bolero march?
21:36 <quadir> Otohiko: feel free to just say what you liked :)
21:36 <G_Q> DR: Yeah. Let me see if I can find an example.
21:36 <quadir> you missed the part where almost everyone said they really liked it :)
21:36 <DriftRoot> Er, don't, I'm on dial-up :(
21:36 <DriftRoot> Thanks a lot, though! :)
21:37 <quadir> in a realm where vampire hunter d set to ramstein = horror, this was refreshing
21:37 <DriftRoot> lol
21:37 <purplepolecat> true
21:37 <G_Q> DR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bol%C3%A9ro
21:37 <DriftRoot> This was real horror, for sure. I've seen some "horror" AMVs that pale in comparison.
21:37 <quadir> and here's the but... I can't help but feel like it's taking a horror movie and making a horror trailer out of it
21:37 <Fall_Child42> People never do rammstein properly.
21:37 * DriftRoot investigates
21:38 <quadir> but I mean people take sappy animes and make sappy videos to them
21:38 <Otohiko> Todd: not even you?
21:38 <quadir> so I don't see why that should stop you, or why it's cheating
21:38 <Fall_Child42> Mein Teil is not about explosions. It's about one man cutting off and eating another man's penis.
21:38 <Fall_Child42> LYRIC SYNCH PEOPLE
21:38 <DriftRoot> @_@
21:38 <purplepolecat> I did a sentimental Fatal Frame vid
21:38 <Otohiko> that's just because anime footage is lacking for that particular type of scene
21:38 <Fall_Child42> purplepolecat I did a horror Chobits video ... Whats your point?
21:39 <inthesto> That wasn't horror
21:39 <purplepolecat> lol
21:39 <DriftRoot> Don't tell people they can't use Naruto for action videos, then, or Excel Saga for comedies...
21:39 <Fall_Child42> it was Horoma
21:39 <inthesto> Well, I guess it was horror for 99% of people who watched it
21:39 <inthesto> For the enlightened 1%, it was comedy
21:39 <PaperIsland> quadir: Do you feel there's something wrong with this resembling a trailer?
21:39 <Otohiko> unless you're good at implying stuff, there's no severed penis in chobits though :o
21:39 <Fall_Child42> Otohiko Those statements were completely unrelated.
21:40 <DriftRoot> You could put a knife in Chi's hand when she points at Hideki and he could look down and scream
21:40 <DriftRoot> but that's getting off topic...
21:40 <G_Q> Fatal Frame as a comedy vid... hmm...
21:40 <Fall_Child42> "girls on film"
21:40 <G_Q> (Neat idea, but wish I had Fatal Frame)
21:40 <G_Q> >_>
21:41 <quadir> PaperIsland: I don't think it does
21:41 <quadir> PaperIsland: resemble a trailer, I was just making a comment on using source footage that too closely fits the mood you are trying to evoke
21:41 <quadir> PaperIsland: using very heavy horror to create a horror vid, for example
21:41 <PaperIsland> "too closely" ?
21:41 <quadir> PaperIsland: okay, let me reverse it from video to audio
21:41 <Fall_Child42> quadri ... but why wouldn't you?
21:42 <DriftRoot> yeah
21:42 <purplepolecat> Fatal Frame comedy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AANvm_UkEuc
21:42 <Otohiko> I like this video, oddly enough
21:42 <quadir> PaperIsland: if I used a really funny audio clip, and made that carry my comedy amv
21:42 <Otohiko> I was pretty skeptical at first, but the editing approach has me
21:42 <quadir> you would say: funny audio does not a good amv make
21:42 <inthesto> Oto: Yeah, step cuts are overpowered
21:42 <Minion> i closed the video after about halfway, when i realized all of the interesting shit was over. it was strong from the beginning but slowly got weaker. also a few technical flaws. fields, AR, some filter shits, ect.
21:42 <Fall_Child42> Step Cuts are Top Tier
21:42 <inthesto> Using step cuts is like picking Gill
21:42 <DriftRoot> But if you watch that video with the audio turned off, it should still be funny.
21:42 <quadir> but if I use very heavy horror video, to make a horror video, should you say: using scary movie != scary mv
21:42 <DriftRoot> If it's not, then ok, it's overly audio dependent.
21:42 <Minion> not bad but not HOLY SHIT YES I CAM
21:43 <PaperIsland> Yeah, but I feel like the images and the song would be less scary on their own, so this was a successful combination
21:43 <Rathisponge> I understand what you mean quadir, but I think the editing really helps to create a good mood in addition to the audio and video
21:43 <PaperIsland> there was synergy there
21:43 <quadir> Rathisponge: I would say so as well in this case
21:43 <quadir> it was very well done, which is why it rose above those judgements
21:43 <DriftRoot> Rath: Yes, the editor put in a lot of effort simply EDITING this footage.
21:44 <PaperIsland> I've probably seen less than 5 horror videos that I think did a better job than this one
21:44 <DriftRoot> Oh duh, BOLERO...I love Bolero...oy
21:44 <PaperIsland> horror AMVS*
21:44 <Otohiko> a few spots I think it sort of missed, but they certainly don't mess it up
21:44 <Otohiko> otherwise style/visual composition/editing are pretty good
21:45 <quadir> I think there's a lot to see in this vid
21:45 <quadir> and a low of review potential here
21:45 <purplepolecat> Yes, overall this was very solid
21:45 <PaperIsland> maybe almost too much, like you said
21:45 <Otohiko> story-wise it makes no freaking sense to me whatsoever, other than a girl apparently getting really freaked out
21:45 <quadir> especially once you learn more about the series as purplepolecat seems to indicate
21:45 <Rathisponge> I agree quadir
21:45 <Otohiko> but that's fine with me
21:45 <PaperIsland> but as I've said, i really like it
21:45 <DriftRoot> Big thumbs up from me.
21:45 <quadir> Otohiko: it's over 3 games, other then her being stuck in a nightmare I'm.. clueless as you are
21:46 <inthesto> Oto: I don't think the video is supposed to have a cohesive narrative
21:46 <inthesto> Not that it needs one
21:46 <DriftRoot> Something about a mansion, with lots of dead folk.
21:46 <PaperIsland> I think that's one of the strong points of the video, that you don't have to know anything about the game
21:46 <quadir> for those who don't get it, it's "final impressions" time
21:46 <inthesto> We could just say "Chick has a nightmare, wakes up and hugs her boyfriend" and leave it at that
21:46 <Fall_Child42> I liked it.
21:46 <inthesto> FINAL IMPRESSION: Video owns shit pretty hard
21:46 <Rathisponge> I was very impressed with this AMV. I thought they did an excellent job :)
21:46 <quadir> inthesto: hm, put that way I might actually agree the ending fits
21:47 <inthesto> Like, if I were to take a dump right now, I could look in the toilet bowl and say "Damn, those turds got owned"
21:47 <DriftRoot> In conclusion: a most appropriate Halloween AMV
21:47 <G_Q> DR: Here, btw: http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop- ... 36-3781636
21:47 <purplepolecat> was it deliberate to do a horror vid for halloween, q ?
21:47 <Fall_Child42> Final Impression: This week had a video that didn't make me want to puch infants in the face.
21:47 <G_Q> A sample of Ravel's Bolero
21:48 <DriftRoot> Ah, yah, thanks, but my brain woke up. I know Bolero, I have it on CD right over there.
21:48 <Fall_Child42> That's the first time I could say that in about a month.
21:48 <quadir> purplepolecat: no, it wasn't
21:48 <Otohiko> haha, I haven't been on here for a month pretty much
21:48 <Otohiko> but this was good
21:48 <quadir> purplepolecat: it actually ended up getting submitted _ picked
21:48 <Otohiko> again, I like the composition
21:49 <Otohiko> I'd give it high marks for making the visuals look right and editing them right
21:50 <quadir> btw people, if you want to know some of the runnerup vids, and when the thread is posted, subscribe to my alerts w/ messages
21:51 <quadir> I'll be sending out links to some of the vids that made the finalists but werent #1 all week
21:51 <quadir> maybe even digging some out from the past that never got featured
21:51 <quadir> + it lets me know if people are still interested in the review even when they can't make it out
21:51 <quadir> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... r_id=15364

[dj_ultima_the_great]

/me absentmindedly wonders how many people commented on the "effects" in the video...

What emotions did it evoke in you? What do you think the video taught you about the character it features?

I'm gonna assume that the red question is either a generic question for all videos or it was written by someone not entirely familiar with Fatal Frame (not a crime, of course, just a thought), cuz the video doesn't really feature any character in specific. It's just a scary video about the general goings-on in those three games. It features the characters pretty equally. Okay, maybe more Mio and Mayu, but that's likely because FF2 just has more workable footage of those two.

/me speaks from experience

As for the emotions, I guess it's supposed to evoke fear, and for most people, it probably does that very well. (I'm largely a survival horror fan, so I guess I'm kind of numb to "scary stuff." I don't think I've ever found a video on this site that's scary to me, so saying this one evokes fear well is a high compliment.) The editing is super-slick, and while some might think the video drags on, I felt like it kept the flow the whole time.

I'm a little sad to see that just about every Fatal Frame video out there, including this one, seems to just focus on the horror aspect. I've only seen one or two that focus on the depressing stories of the games. In that regard, this video is somewhat unoriginal. However, Spatula scores major points just for using more obscure games like these, so I guess that kind of makes up for it.

I have a hard time getting past the technical issues, mostly because this is a remake/remaster. It should have been fixed this time around and it wasn't. Of course, Fatal Frame has a lot of natural noise in the clips, so even a "cleaned" and corrected video would still look somewhat grainy. (It's supposed to look that way, by the way.) But there are other issues that need fixing and I know that an adjustment and a quick re-encode and re-upload (with the appropriate delete request beforehand, of course) would solve one or two of them.

Anywho, I'm rambling. If I think of more, I'll post it, but those are my initial impressions/thoughts (and I posted most of that in the announcement thread, so not much is new really).


- Jen

[Warlocket]

I will admit that I did rush the ending, because I really wanted to enter this AMV at Youmacon and the deadline was coming up pretty quickly. I would have had a lot more time to work on it had my laptop’s adapter cable not decided to break (rendering it, for the most part, useless) and then I had to wait nearly two months to get it replaced…but, I digress.

The ending I WAS going for (and I think I may have executed this a little better in the original ‘Go Back to Sleep’ video) was more of a sad one because the Fatal Frame games all have a pretty deep overtone of sadness. It’s kinda hard to explain without launching myself into a full-length description about the games but what’s basically happening at the end is that one of the girls (Miku) is losing her brother, and the other (Rei) is losing her fiancé. Both dudes were already dead at the begging of the third game (which is when these scenes take place) but the whole reason that they were going through all this ghost business was for another chance to see them.

I initially got this idea from the line at the end: “I’ll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and a voice of reason.” It made sense with the Miku/brother scene because if she followed him she was pretty much condemning herself to death. In the end, she DID follow him which was basically her loss of ‘the will to survive.’ The other part: “I’ll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices,” fit with the Rei/fiancé scene because he was trying to keep her from following him…because he was dead and he was going to dead people land. So, for the ending at least, it did help to have knowledge of the Fatal Frame games. Looking back now though, I really could’ve integrated a lot more story into this video that would’ve made the ending fit a lot better. It made it kinda hard, though, when a lot of the story in FF3 was being told through newspaper clippings, books, research notes, and diaries. I wanted to SEE that stuff, dammit! Not read about it.

Anyway, I will also admit that the grain was not my doing. A lot of the games cut scenes are shown in flashbacks (main characters having visions and whatnot) which are shown in varying degrees of grainyness and color saturation. The only grain filter I have at my disposal is a very crappy one that I’m sure many people are happy that I did not try to use. Most of the image altering I did was actually done to the captured footage in an attempt to make it look less…bad. Especially with the captured FF2 footage because, for some reason, that video captured really dark so I had to screw with the brightness and contrast just so that it would be visible. I can, however, be accused of a couple of the grayscale incidences.

Phew, long post. I think I’m done rambling for now, just one more thing: Thank you very much for taking the time to review my AMV. It’s very difficult for me to get anybody to give me honest, useful feedback on my videos, so this really helped me out a lot. I think my eyes kinda popped out of my head a little bit when I logged onto the org and saw all those opinions

[DriftRoot]

quadir, you left our discussion about the opping system in there. I wasn't sure you would, but I'm glad you did.

SC: I'll say it one more time: the scene where the door slams shut was the best part of the whole AMV for me. I just sat there and gleefully watched it over and over and over.

I think my eyes kinda popped out of my head a little bit when I logged onto the org and saw all those opinions

I'll bet they did.

[Emong]

Ah, yes, I'm glad this vid got selected I really liked it.. Although, the genre and the song really helped me with that (Ghosts + Counting Bodies Like Sheep to the Rhythm of the War Drums = Orgasmic)

Spatula_Castle, I might drop an op later if you want?

[quadir]

Spatula_Castle, I might drop an op later if you want?

Emphasis mine. I'm always suprised whenever anyone asks permission to voice their opinion. If you want to voice your opinion, do so, if they don't listen or disagree, don't invest further but there's not much to loose for giving initial feedback.

I think the whole look at series knowledge is an interesting problem in AMVs. In AMVs we tend to think of 'fandom' as 'anime', and not a specific program. So if I like 'Game Music Videos', then I should probably like your 'Game Music Video' if it's any good.

In the vidding world, things are more insular, and nobody would pretend to say that if they like 'Buffy vids' that by extension they would like a 'Harry Potter' vid if it was any good. Because in this case you are speaking about two different fandoms, "Buffy" and "Harry Potter".

I find it's a much clearer line, and means that your fanbase as an editor will almost always be comprised of people who know a fair amount about the series or game you're making a video for. So looking at how series dependant AMVs and GMVs are received in this community gives you a much broader perspective, where people care a lot more about how a video can sustain what essentially it's own fandom, encapsulating all the elements required for enjoyment, instead of a more cult following feel, or sequel that doesn't work without foreknowledge.

Whenever I see big longwinded descriptions about what an editor "meant" in a video or what the story they "told" was, I'm usually pretty dismissive and chalk it up to pretensiousness analyzing on poor storytelling, if you've been following the review this seems to be a reoccuring opinion people have on videos they don't "get". But when I don't intimitely know the source footage, I'm not sure I'm in a position to say so.

In this week's video, it worked very well on it's own, without any knowledge, which I see almost as a requirement for a amv-review video since we don't all watch the same shows, the random sampling of people who show up are not actually in the same fandom, like getting someone who likes musicals, another b-movie horror and another action movie to discuss the intricasies of Gone with the Wind.

I would say that the series dependant vid, although reoccuring in AMVs, is a dying breed and only ever gets a first effort, not an evolution, because the fanbase for one fandom is not organized enough to congragate and give that kind of feedback -- we are stuck serving the lowest common denominater, no matter how well we are getting at doing that.

Thoughts?

[Orwell]

It's not the lowest common demoninator, it's a challenge to editors to do cohesive story telling. Not all are good at it. And, generally, the concept is a MUSIC VIDEO, not a video fanfic. If that's the goal then it should be specifically stated and build directly on it, instead of present a ambigious, take as you will. This is when you'd probably want to add either voice acting, either a very good song selection or massive restructing, or simply explore the use of text in a video, a HIGHLY undeveloped section of the amv theory in general.

Not to say having series knowledge references is at all bad, it adds a nice touch to those who have seen the series, e.g. Otos Court of the Crimson King, but if it doesn't stand on it's own as just a music video or original story, or is built from the show, then personally I think it's a failed creation. Doesn't make it any less valid, but one does note that your higher rated videos tend to achieve this.

[Fall_Child42]

I REALLY DON'T THINK that I should have capslock on.

also I don't think there is every going to be a complete dissapearence of series based videos.

in fact I just made one that was not only heavily based on a series but a game too.

The very fact we have large amounts of "Character Profile" videos is a testament to that.

Now each person should have their own preferences, and just because I don't like a 5cm/s video doesn't mean I can't appreciate the fact it was done well.

so when we say that "I like video game music videos" "I'll like your video if it's done well" I think it means that although we man not be a big fan of the source we can recognise that it is done well, which I must say is a damn site better than "I fucken Love that Buffy video even though it's shitty because it's got buffy in it." (it's sad to say we have our share of those people too, make a Saiyuki video and you'll see what I mean)

[quadir]

"I fucken Love that Buffy video even though it's shitty because it's got buffy in it."

Ah, but if your fandom is Buffy, then they ALL have Buffy in it. So no, that argument really doesn't have a leg to stand on. But for example in a character profile, your viewership would know what was going on in the series in certain shots, and see the progressions in the character you are highlighting, which broken up individually would be their own videos as well, but it was put upon the viewer to know already.

It can force you to examine a work or character from different angles, a relationship (keep it serious here), without having to go through the drugery of "and this is how the story began"... someone already told the story in detail + a recap ep(s) (usually), if you want all the details, go fracking watch it.

If I want a video that makes me think and doesn't read like cliff notes, maybe series knowledge dependance can be a very good thing and liberates the editor to dare I say "higher" level editing. I can see the trythil quote coming.