AMV-Review #31: Frostreturns' Spirit of the Movement

[quadir]

AMV-Review's goal is to foster a sub-community that critically analyzes videos and looks for deeper meaning in the creations editors make. It is hoped that through this process will viewers and editors alike come to better appreciate videos that are well thought out, well executed, and progress AMVs as a medium of expression.

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On Monday at 20:30 EDT (8:30pm) in #amv-review we have a moderated discussion on a recently released video.
On Thursday all evening in #amv-review editors present BETAs (come out and present yours!) to get initial feedback on AMVs in the making.

Come join us!

This week's moderated discussion video:
(Frostreturns) - 2007 - Spirit of the Movement
Category: Other
Anime: Naruto, Bleach
Song: Anti-Crew - Peace

Please use this thread to discuss this video, there's no need to read the IRC log, just watch the video, and start talking about it! What emotions did it evoke in you? What do you think the video taught you about the character it features?

Bonus Video:
Tamas Katona (Kaxi) - 2006 - Sacrifice
Category: Action
Anime: Various
Song: Pulse Ultra - Build Your Cages

After each discussion, we throw out a "bonus" video, which often doesn't lend itself perfectly to analysis, or is already well established but is worth recommending. Check it out!

Archive of previous moderated discussions:
2007 October 030-08, 029-01, September 028-24, 027-17, 026-10, 025-03
August 024-27, 023-20, 022-13, 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19

[quadir]

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Discussion:

IRC Participants: Celibi87 (Matthew Hanlon), G_Q (GloryQuestor - John Wendel), Kionon, MD (Meteor Dragon - Willie W.), ngsilver (Nate), PaperIsland (Nathaniel Sticco), Orwell, quadir (Olivier Beaton), Rave_Epic (Tim Tolan), RathiSponge (Billy Welch)

20:34 <quadir> Video: (Frostreturns) - 2007 - Spirit of the Movement
20:34 <quadir> nothing too deep this week, keep it light folks
20:35 <MD> it was alright if I remember
20:35 <Celibi87> Yeah, prety good quality for having to use downloaded footage
20:35 <inthesto> Keep it light?
20:35 <inthesto> Is that like light ranch?
20:39 <MD> do some people over filter to give there video a "different" look
20:40 <Orwell> You can.
20:40 <quadir> yes, in many many mediums
20:40 <trythil> it's done in film all the time, for example
20:40 <quadir> and photography
20:40 <MD> hmm
20:40 <trythil> purists don't :P (just kidding)
20:40 <quadir> and also accross mediums, from machinima, game skill videos, film, tv, etc
20:41 <Orwell> Journalism and political messages
20:41 <Orwell> sensationalist stories
20:41 <quadir> ...
20:41 <Orwell> not just the medium but the content as well
20:41 <Orwell> but, I suppose I should go op something
20:42 <trythil> well, if you want to put it that way
20:42 <trythil> every AMV filters the content
20:42 <quadir> err yeah that's what I meant :(
20:43 <godix> Ah, the search for meaning in life by beating the fuck out of any and everyone. To a song titled peace. Nice irony, wonder if it was intentional.
20:44 <MD> yes godix
20:45 <godix> "This ass whooping is dedicated to peace worldwide ya'll!"
20:45 <quadir> godix: were you around when peace on earth came out?
20:53 <inthesto> DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU FILTER FANSUBS
20:56 <MD> the edit was pretty good
21:00 <Celibi87> Yeah it was, a few things here and there that coulda been a little better but thats to be expected with the song selection.
21:00 <quadir> alright like I said at the start, we're having a light review tonight, dont' try to read into things too much
21:01 <quadir> I kept wanting to label it a character profile
21:01 <quadir> but it was more a bishoden anthem vid
21:01 <quadir> so in that way it was more a character profile of the type of animes it represents
21:02 <Rathisponge> Did you feel it was more of a character profile for one anime in particular?
21:02 <Celibi87> It doesnt really focus on characters though
21:02 <Celibi87> Its more of a storyline amv
21:02 <quadir> maybe naruto but I've also seen 20 eps of naruto, and only read a few chapters of bleach
21:03 <Rathisponge> I have seen neither anime used, but it seemed to fit more with naruto and less with bleach
21:03 <Rave_Epic> I couldn't understand this "storyline" because I couldn't hear a lot of the lyrics.
21:03 <Rave_Epic> Rap and I don't mix. =\
21:03 <Orwell> There isn't a storyline. it's lyric by lyric, and the lyrics are...
21:03 <Orwell> meh
21:03 <Celibi87> I am used to listening to lyrics so it wasnt that hard to concentrate on that and the clips used
21:03 <Orwell> This isn't the naruto video I remember. Maybe it was a bleach video.
21:04 <quadir> hehe orwell is right though, the biggest strengths here are lyric sync and beat sync
21:04 <quadir> there isn't really internal scene to scene cohesion
21:04 <Orwell> But, yeah, the sources are a real turn off. The editing I liked for what that's worth.
21:04 <quadir> the overfiltering ugh
21:04 <Rathisponge> The lyrics seemed to promote a more positive attitude outlook on life in general, but I had trouble drawing that positive message from the scenes and anime used
21:05 <Rave_Epic> He had to filter shippuden because I don't think any of that is on DVD yet. Though he did go a bit overboard with it.
21:05 <Orwell> I thought the filtering made it slightly more bearable.
21:05 <G_Q> Since I watch little Naruto and Bleach, I can't quite identify. :|
21:05 <Orwell> Then again, I think naruto just looks ugly no matter what
21:05 <G_Q> Maybe if I saw more, it'd make a bit more sense.
21:05 <Rathisponge> I agree G_Q
21:05 <Rave_Epic> And the Shippuden stuff doesn't look that great.
21:05 <Orwell> Bleach isn't much better
21:05 <Celibi87> The problem witht he vid that I had was that it seemed to be some random scenes that coincided with the music
21:06 <Celibi87> Didnt see much of a storyline myself
21:06 <Rave_Epic> G_Q, I've seen all of Naruto and there isn't really much to get in the video.
21:06 <Orwell> That's basically what it is. It accomplishes everything I think it set out to do well.
21:06 <quadir> Rathisponge: hm, I got the positive in them always being in these "power" poses against advercity
21:06 <Rave_Epic> He was really just putting scenes to the lyrics.
21:06 <MD> so...
21:06 <Orwell> It wasn't trying to tell a story, it's just, here it is, scenes to music and beat. Trying to put a story in here without supporting lyrics I think would have just failed even harder than the sources do.
21:06 <quadir> Orwell: captain tyler for3v4h!
21:06 <Rathisponge> The advercity always seemed to be violence related, which I did not believe the song was suggesting
21:07 <Orwell> Quadir: uh.... yeah. Ok. whatever captain tyler.
21:07 <Orwell> is
21:07 <quadir> 80s anime
21:07 <Rathisponge> I agree Orwell, I did not believe a story was the intention of the editor
21:07 <quadir> I did a bonus of it one week
21:07 <quadir> Rathisponge: I think that's pretty established
21:08 <Orwell> Well, I don't think a...
21:08 <Orwell> non-violent would have worked
21:08 <Rathisponge> What is quadir?
21:08 <quadir> is it that violent though?
21:08 <quadir> I don't see a lot of that
21:08 <quadir> I see lots of power poses with swords and covered in wounds
21:08 <Celibi87> Shippuden is rather violent compared to regular Naruto
21:08 <quadir> I don't see fighting
21:08 <Orwell> the rap is basically remorseful violence. I mean, poor blacks community isn't worrying about girlfriend breaking up. It's grabbing that corner to sell drugs and your gang winning.
21:09 <Orwell> Not direct violence, no, but, implied contesting
21:09 <quadir> true it does profile villains
21:09 <Celibi87> If it profiles viillians then why do the heros of the stories?
21:09 <Rathisponge> I am not so convinced of that Orwell but I can see what you mean
21:10 <quadir> it is nice to checkin into what people in different music genres are doing with the medium
21:10 <quadir> since music style often defines so much the style of the amv
21:11 <quadir> it's easy to ignore whole sections of videos just because the music choice isn't exacly to your liking
21:11 <Rave_Epic> I can't really say much because I'm biased against that genre of music. While that's another discussion in itself, I have troubles rating the video.
21:11 <Orwell> Rave: same here. I really, really don't care for that style of music.
21:11 <Orwell> Maybe if we got some russian or swedish rap in here...
21:12 <quadir> I'm not abig rap fan but I still enjoyed it for what it was
21:12 <Rave_Epic> I like maybe 2 or 3 songs of rap and that's because they're comedic.
21:12 <MD> I liked the song a bit
21:12 <PaperIsland> I like good rap... this song had no variety, and the video reflected that with its relentless cutting on beats
21:12 <Rave_Epic> Wtf, is that even a word? Comedic? Either way, you know what I meant.
21:14 <Orwell> Hmmm, yeah. Pretty light. I thought there was some stuff to rip, but it was a bleach only video I was thinking of that had some room for ripping it apart. This is pretty plain
21:14 <Orwell> really plain
21:15 -!- Kionon has joined #amv-review
21:15 <Rathisponge> Do you mean plain as in the editing used?
21:16 <Orwell> plain editing, boring filter
21:16 <Orwell> no real element to rip apart.
21:16 <Rathisponge> Hm Ok.
21:16 <quadir> for a vidding trailer video to rap: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... 2030183246
21:16 <quadir> as comparison to what you can do
21:16 <Rave_Epic> I've never seen a AMV with rap that I've liked...
21:16 <quadir> w/ the music style
21:17 <Celibi87> Rave: I would have to agree
21:17 <Rave_Epic> And I've downloaded a few just so I wasn't completely biased against the idea.
21:18 <MD> I like quite a few
21:18 <Rathisponge> What did you wish to point out with the video you posted quadir? That there is a different type of editing used?
21:18 <quadir> just avoid the sunflower samurai ones
21:19 <Celibi87> Rath: I dont see much of a difference either.
21:19 <quadir> Rathisponge: it's more looking at vids in different styles of music.
21:19 <Rathisponge> Ok
21:19 <quadir> since we so often focus a few small genres in the review
21:20 <Rathisponge> ah
21:20 <quadir> it makes a bit of a break to remind people there are videos being made to other stuff out there
21:20 <quadir> and they can have huge audiences as well, even if they are not so mainstream
21:20 <quadir> just like the old amv-review crowd was so in tune to experimental vids
21:21 <quadir> which is a tiny tiny subset of amv viewers
21:21 <PaperIsland> Who are the old amv-review crowd?
21:21 <PaperIsland> where have they gone?
21:21 <Rave_Epic> Was wondering the same thing, heh.
21:21 <quadir> they /part ed
21:21 <quadir> for the most part
21:22 <Rave_Epic> Ah.
21:22 <quadir> so would you say there's such a thing as a genre profile?
21:23 <Rave_Epic> Hmm
21:23 <quadir> and if so, does this fufill the criteria?
21:23 <Rave_Epic> What would make up a genre profile?
21:23 <Rathisponge> what do you mean? that a certain video either by anime or editing style used is made to fit with a certain genre of music?
21:24 <quadir> no genre of anime
21:24 <Rave_Epic> Ahh
21:24 <Rave_Epic> Well, eh...
21:24 <Rathisponge> I would think it is fair to say that a majority of those who listen to the same music may also watch the same anime
21:24 <Rave_Epic> Action, Drama, etc is already there.
21:25 <quadir> okay, but where the video fails at being any kind of profile of the characters therein, or even an individual anime
21:25 <PaperIsland> It doesn't make sense to me, because a character profile is all about complicating a character, but a genre profile seems like it would be about reducing a genre down to its common themes
21:25 <Rave_Epic> It'd be serious/drama?
21:25 <quadir> maybe it's pretty representitive of the genre of anime
21:25 <Rave_Epic> I mean, the song is "peace" after all.
21:25 <quadir> I can see taking nauro out and putting shamman king for example
21:25 <quadir> yeah the sex pistols are all about dicks
21:26 <quadir> I woudln't be bogged down on a song title too much
21:26 <G_Q> Hmm... so it could have been made more Shonen Jump-ish?
21:26 <G_Q> That sounds more interesting, I agree.
21:26 <quadir> G_Q: I dont' mean made more so, it already is
21:26 <quadir> sure there it isn't shonen bushido with 300 animes
21:26 <PaperIsland> Actually, I change my mind. This could be a genre profile, because it turns the series into what it wants the series to be.
21:26 <G_Q> Well, Bleach & Naruto a Shonen Jump not make. :\
21:26 <quadir> it stuck to 2 but nevertheless works the same way
21:27 <G_Q> Shaman King, DBZ, even Yu-Gi-Oh! were nice serials for it.
21:27 <Celibi87> Serial killer more likely
21:27 <quadir> you could do this video with shaman king and hikaru no go
21:28 <quadir> and maintain the same feeling
21:28 <quadir> because the elements you're lifting out of the footage, which is mostly out of lyric sync and visual imagery, is easily replicated in other animes within the genre
21:28 <G_Q> But saying this is like Shonen Jump is pretty much like saying nessie's Sunrise is Shojo Beat.
21:28 <G_Q> Actually, there are some comparisons between the two, in hindsight.
21:28 <quadir> G_Q: wasn't that more a character profile?
21:29 <G_Q> This vid and hers.
21:29 <G_Q> Somewhat, but it has the same feel.
21:29 <quadir> the other label I keep playing with is "anthem"
21:29 <G_Q> Basically, where she switches between NANA and Honey & Clover.
21:29 <Rave_Epic> Well, out of everything said here, I think Anthem works best.
21:30 <quadir> where shonen bushido is more a shoutout vid, I'd think an anthem vid would be more a trailer for the genre or anime
21:30 <Celibi87> What kinda anthem we talking about here?
21:30 <quadir> Celibi87: it's a similar idea. an anthem embodies the values and qualities of what/who it is meant to represent
21:31 -!- ngsilver has joined #amv-review
21:31 <quadir> directly or indirectly
21:31 <Celibi87> ahh ok then
21:31 <quadir> is how I'd define the term
21:31 <Celibi87> So this one is an anthem AMV?
21:31 <quadir> it's an idea
21:32 <quadir> I'm not trying to read too much into the content of the vid itself
21:33 <PaperIsland> I could see that
21:33 <quadir> we've already established it's a lyric + beat sync vid with no scene cohesion
21:33 <Rave_Epic> And no real storyline.
21:33 <quadir> but like the editor labelled it "sentimental"
21:33 <quadir> and I put down "other"
21:33 <Celibi87> Yeah, its more of a "Here is a scene and I like it Lets put it in."
21:34 <Kionon> It bored me.
21:34 <Kionon> Simple as that.
21:34 <Celibi87> "Lets add some effects and call it that"
21:34 <Kionon> It does nothing unique at all.
21:34 <Kionon> It tells no story.
21:34 <Orwell> Jesus, cooking is harder than highschool chemistry
21:34 <Kionon> And the sound quality is horrid.
21:34 <quadir> Orwell: tell me about it, I made a double batch tonight though, don't have to risk the stove for another 3 days
21:34 * G_Q agrees with Kio in summation.
21:34 <quadir> Kionon: the filtering gave me a headache on first viewing
21:35 <Kionon> Filtering didn't bother me.
21:35 <Kionon> Unless you mean audio filtering.
21:35 <godix> are we on the bonus video yet?
21:35 <quadir> I got a new monitor, my whites are bright
21:35 <quadir> that shit got tide
21:35 <PaperIsland> filtering didn't really bother me either
21:35 <quadir> godix: very very soon
21:35 <quadir> godix: we're finishing up a meta discussion on anime genre profiles and anthem vids
21:35 <ngsilver> video does seem extremely bright, and the monitor I view on usually makes things appear darker
21:35 <PaperIsland> I think he made different series stick together pretty well
21:36 <PaperIsland> I didn't feel jarred
21:36 <PaperIsland> maybe occasionally by the really washed out moments
21:36 <PaperIsland> but for the most part
21:36 <ngsilver> i would agree, not much makes each scene feel like part of a story. seems feally random
21:36 <Kionon> There is no story.
21:37 <Kionon> None at all.
21:37 <ngsilver> I can see...
21:37 <quadir> nope, none
21:37 <PaperIsland> A good amv doesn't have to tell a story though
21:37 <Kionon> It's all literal sync.
21:37 <PaperIsland> there's a perfect format for telling a story: the feature film.
21:37 <Kionon> I disagree, PaperIsland.
21:37 <Rathisponge> I agree Paperisland
21:37 <ngsilver> does a fairly good job of transition
21:37 <ngsilver> between scenes
21:37 <MD> I agree with paperboy
21:37 <Orwell> Paper: Uh, I believe that would just be Film
21:37 <ngsilver> though it appears to move too quick
21:38 <quadir> why don't you put some thoughts of your own on the page instead of just ibbid
21:38 <ngsilver> it'd be nice to see a scene last longer then 2 secs
21:38 <PaperIsland> word ngsilver
21:38 <MD> because I'm alil busy =|
21:39 <PaperIsland> I'm not saying an AMV can't tell a story, but there's no 5 minute story that I can think of that competes with a feature length story
21:39 <PaperIsland> there are 5 minute ideas that compete with feature length ideas however
21:40 <MD> well there are alot of videos that only do lyric sync and they happen to be great
21:40 <godix> there are a lot of feature length movies that have less than 5 minutes of plot
21:40 <Orwell> Paper: there are plenty of five minute stories that compete with film length stories. They do it all the time. It's the difference between the regular section and the porno section at your movie rental store.
21:41 <PaperIsland> Well... most porn doesn't have a story, it's more of an idea
21:41 <Orwell> In an AMV however, well, I don't think there's a comparison.
21:41 <quadir> PaperIsland: 3d animation segments try
21:41 <Orwell> how many films tell stories through music alone? A musical, not a film and that still has speech
21:42 <Kionon> Op up.
21:42 <Orwell> Damn it, I need to finish House of Revolutions. Imagine the size of the epenis on THAT
21:42 <PaperIsland> Well I'm not saying feature films are better at telling a story through music alone
21:42 <quadir> we're getting a bit offtopic here. last thoughts on the main amv before bonus?
21:43 <quadir> I liked the vid, but asside as a decent music genre example or a 'heres what bishoden anime is like' I probably wouldnt keep it around to show people
21:43 <Orwell> Well, quadir, isn't this though, with the exception of a couple of my comments, the sort of meta discussion were after?
21:43 <ngsilver> not something I would want to show to my friends, though I expect would be loved by most because of what is used
21:43 <Rathisponge> Overall I thought the editing was very well done. I thought he did a good job :)
21:43 <Orwell> As far as the video goes, it does what it set out to accomplish very well.
21:43 <quadir> that he did
21:44 <PaperIsland> I thought the pacing was unpleasant, but I agree with quadir's "anthem" theory, so in that way it's a good genre AMV
21:44 <ngsilver> it wasn't a bad video. But overall I just didn't like the lack of story
21:45 <Kionon> I pretty much panned it.
21:45 <quadir> Orwell: yes and no, if there is progress made, bickering not so much. don't need to work on finding a theme for 2 hours again
21:45 <Kionon> It was like every other bleach/naruto video.
21:45 <quadir> minus actual fighting I found
21:45 <quadir> but you're right that didn't change it that much
21:45 <Kionon> Which made it even more boring.
21:46 <quadir> at least you got to see something, 2 seconds of blur cut cut cut cut
21:46 <quadir> :)
21:46 <Rave_Epic> lol
21:46 <Kionon> I gave it a 1 for originality.
21:47 <Rave_Epic> Same.
21:47 <Kionon> It said nothing, did nothing new with the sources.
21:47 <Kionon> At all.
21:47 <Kionon> Not even an attempt.
21:47 <Orwell> But in that I think we're judging it based on something the video had no intention of doing
21:48 <quadir> I'm with orwell there
21:48 <Orwell> yes, it's boring for not having it, but for what it did, be a pretty 'anthem' video it was a good example.
21:48 <Kionon> I'm not sure I consider those real videos.
21:48 <Orwell> Kio: how do you mean?
21:49 <Kionon> Honestly, orwell, I don't know what I mean.
21:49 <Kionon> Other than I'm like "This isn't interesting at all, why watch this?"
21:50 <Orwell> Kio: think of it like a teaser. Either you like it or you don't. It's not an artistic expression
21:50 <Orwell> I think your problem is that your looking for one where none is meant to exist, and you want to watch videos that expres something.
21:50 <Kionon> So a video like that just begs the question, if you're not going to take the time to construct a coherent message, why bother?
21:50 <Orwell> Why does everything need a message?

[quadir]

amv-review tonight at 20:30 EDT