When: Mondays, 21:00 EST, #amv-review in synirc
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Archive of previous moderated discussions:Discussion wrote:21:03 <quadir> So, seems like we have a effects video tonight
21:03 <quadir> been while if I recall, the akross advertisement vid was the last pure effects video we had
21:04 <Rathisponge> I believe you are correct
21:05 <G_Q> Seems quite a few had strong opinions of the vid earlier.
21:05 <Rathisponge> I enjoyed the use of the effects in the video, I thought they were appropriate and well done. The "grainy" look I believe added to the overall feeling from the amv.
21:05 <quadir> a lot seems to be happening in this vid, but the first thing I noticed was it's not beat synced
21:06 <G_Q> True. It seems to flow with the music, not necessarily worrying about hitting beats.
21:06 <PaperIsland> yeah, the imagination of the creator seems to flow beyond the beats
21:06 <teya> Rathisponge: i was a bit unconvinced about the grainy look, but overall i thought it worked
21:06 <quadir> yeah, melody/flow with the rises and slopes
21:06 <Rathisponge> that is an interesting way to put it but yah I agree paperisland and g_q
21:06 <teya> i thought it fit very well with the music
21:07 <quadir> teya: hm, I also felt the film "grain" seemed to be just obscuring, and didn't really contribute
21:07 <teya> when i noticed beats in the vid, they matched the song
21:07 <Rathisponge> what do you mean unconvinced? did it feel a bit overused to you teya?
21:07 <G_Q> My main issue with it was the effects overload, actually.
21:07 <teya> Rathisponge: sort of... i mean.. it seemed like there were multiple types of graininess
21:07 <PaperIsland> It did add a bit of false drama to some of it perhaps
21:08 <PaperIsland> drama where nothing was really happening
21:08 <teya> Rathisponge: and yet it wasn't used _all_ the time
21:08 <quadir> like an overused photoshop blur on a model's picture
21:08 -!- Nio|SchoolDays08 is now known as Niotex
21:08 <teya> quadir: aha! exactly
21:08 <Rathisponge> ah I see
21:08 <Niotex> <G_Q> My main issue with it was the preset overload, actually.*
21:08 <G_Q> Nio: Not sure what you mean.
21:08 <G_Q> :\
21:08 <quadir> overload, nio/gq?
21:08 -!- ZephyrStar [ZephyrStar@23496846.AFBF94CF.2313AD37.IP] has joined #amv-review
21:08 <G_Q> It's just a little too much.
21:09 <Niotex> allot of the "effects" you see in that video are presets or pretty much canned
21:09 <Niotex> standard out of the box texture sets
21:09 <Niotex> etc etc
21:09 <Niotex> pisses me off
21:09 <teya> i liked the use of 3D-ness
21:09 <Rathisponge> ah
21:09 <Niotex> simple 2.5D
21:09 <quadir> Niotex: so is a straight cut and fade?
21:09 <teya> felt like flying through someone's mind
21:09 <Rathisponge> you mean the way camera moved in the 3d teya?
21:09 <teya> Rathisponge: yeah
21:09 <Niotex> they didnt even make a consistant flow across the multible camera's
21:09 <ZephyrStar> a cut and fade is not really an effect though
21:09 <Rathisponge> ah yah I enjoyed that as well
21:09 <ZephyrStar> it's a transition
21:09 <Niotex> quadir this is differant
21:10 <G_Q> ZS: Well, they are "effects" in the sense of what it is.
21:10 <Niotex> this is more the case of people not knowing what they are watching rather then a straight cut or fade thats pretty easy to understand
21:10 <G_Q> However, they are so generally accepted as to not be "stand-out effects"
21:10 <teya> 3D might be easy to produce, but i think it was used well
21:10 <ZephyrStar> in terms of general video editing though, they're not considered effects
21:10 <ZephyrStar> yeah
21:10 <quadir> I don't edit, but it seems to me like your editor gives you certain tools. You can craft your own tools, and for sure you'll be hardcore then, but there's no shame in using the tools they provide, and striving to use it well
21:10 <ZephyrStar> it was used decently.
21:10 <Rathisponge> I agree quadir.
21:11 <G_Q> Anyone happen to see L around?
21:11 <Niotex> quadir again its not so much the tools but these are presets
21:11 <G_Q> >:|
21:11 <teya> i third quadir
21:11 <Niotex> presets are differant from tools
21:11 <Rathisponge> L?
21:11 <Niotex> so are prebacked texture sets
21:11 <G_Q> Sure, Light and Ryuk were the main focus, but where's L?
21:11 <ZephyrStar> kinda reminds me of when people do those fancy sparkly flying logos to introduce their videos
21:11 <Rathisponge> oh I haven't seen this anime
21:11 <ZephyrStar> "hay guys I has some trapcode shineeee"
21:12 <Niotex> you mean Ayako@web ZS?
21:12 <Niotex> stuff like that?
21:12 <ZephyrStar> yeah that too
21:12 <teya> ZephyrStar: i think the ending credits were sorta like that
21:12 <ZephyrStar> a couple of things i'll give the video is that it had a style to itself
21:12 <PaperIsland> I love the credits
21:12 <ZephyrStar> and the actual timing is not bad either
21:13 <G_Q> The credits work well, but I agree with Quadir ... they are a bit too long.
21:13 <Rathisponge> The text used at some parts as if they written down on the paper was nice however when the text started to fly toward me it didnt seem to fit very well with the flow
21:13 <ZephyrStar> but I didn't really feel a story going, which there does not have to be
21:13 <PaperIsland> I enjoyed them all the way through
21:13 <quadir> G_Q: you might want to point out you're agreeing with my op, nothing I've said so far here :)
21:13 <teya> hehe
21:13 <teya> i also said in my op that the credits were too long
21:13 <G_Q> The credits work well, but I agree with Quadir (in his review) ... they are a bit too long.
21:13 <quadir> ZephyrStar: I really didn't expect a story, and yet somehow there was enough flow that I wished there was.
21:13 <G_Q> fix'd
21:13 <ZephyrStar> so for me the video was kindof like "ohmygod death note and grunge"
21:14 <Rathisponge> I had to read the lyrics Zephyr to try and grasp any story
21:14 <ZephyrStar> same
21:14 <teya> i didn't get the story =/
21:14 <Niotex> "ohmygod death note and riotgear dvd" you mean
21:14 <ZephyrStar> seriass
21:14 <G_Q> teya: How much of Death Note have you seen / read?
21:14 <teya> G_Q: none =) hence not surprised
21:14 <quadir> I just mean that because it wasn't beat synced, and scenes stayed with us longer then 0.1 seconds, I felt like I was supposed to get /something/ from them
21:14 <G_Q> I ask also because I feel this is another underlying problem with the video.
21:15 <quadir> after all, the editor had me starting at it for so long
21:15 <ZephyrStar> this feels somehow like "Death Note Technique Beat"
21:15 <ZephyrStar> except
21:15 <G_Q> Unless you've seen enough Death Note, you really can't grasp the concept.
21:15 <quadir> like they were letting the scenes sink in
21:15 <Rathisponge> I can understand what you mean quadir
21:15 <quadir> but I didn't really get anything out of it
21:15 <ZephyrStar> decoy actually kinda put a story or a presentation to his characters and what they are all doing
21:15 <ZephyrStar> and bazillions of layers :o
21:15 <Niotex> quadir straight up syncing a song like that would ruin the style they were going for its only natural
21:16 <ZephyrStar> I guess that's why this vid doesn't work for me either, is that I've not seen the show Death Note
21:16 <quadir> I've seen the first two eps, and other vids, I can't say that helped me really
21:16 <Niotex> I have though the compositing/fx just kills it for me
21:16 <PaperIsland> There's more interiority to this than the technique beats have
21:16 <Niotex> not really
21:16 <Niotex> its fallowing the basic 1 on 1 relation between 2 chars
21:17 <PaperIsland> We might have a clear cut idea of what's going on, but we know this person is mentally unstable and we're in his world
21:17 <PaperIsland> not have*
21:17 <Niotex> not much more depth then the TB's
21:17 <G_Q> I've seen and read quite a bit of Death Note, so I know pretty much where they were going.
21:17 <quadir> Niotex: your argument seems to be the musician vs remix dj
21:17 <Rathisponge> That is an interesting observation PaperIsland, is if we were being put into the mind of this unstable person
21:17 <quadir> both claim to create, and yet the musician will say he is original, since the remixer just takes a bunch of pre-made things and splices them together
21:17 <Niotex> maybe but none the less considering we have editors around here people would get the point regardless
21:17 <Niotex> its not so much that
21:18 <quadir> PaperIsland: hm, The Cell
21:18 <Rathisponge> the video felt very "unstable", as well as the song
21:18 <Niotex> if your going to "remix" something then make it your own
21:18 <G_Q> Nio: Which is why I was lamenting the fact that it's one of the few Death Note videos without L.
21:18 <G_Q> I also haven't seen one to blend in other characters of Death Note, except AMV Hell 4
21:19 <PaperIsland> I don't think you always need to think about how much you're doing to a remix so much as what the finished product looks like
21:19 <quadir> interestingly for a effects video there's a lot of text in this video
21:19 <Niotex> the typography was horrible on it too =|
21:19 <G_Q> quadir: That's probably due to the fact it centers around a book.
21:19 <Niotex> might aswell have been comicsans
21:19 <quadir> both in the layers, in lyric karaoke, and even during instrumental bits
21:19 <ZephyrStar> I kinda felt this video was shooting for something and came up a little short
21:19 <teya> i thought the text mostly worked
21:20 <G_Q> However, they took the book theme a little too literally.
21:20 <ZephyrStar> someone who does well what this video attempted to do is Kievits
21:20 <quadir> Niotex: I woudln't be so quick to dismiss it
21:20 <G_Q> I liked how they implemented it, in hindsight.
21:20 <ZephyrStar> I found more depth in his videos in this similar style
21:20 <Niotex> font choice was horrible nobody can deny that quadir
21:20 <PaperIsland> With what video Zephyrstar?
21:20 <quadir> the thing that seemed most forced was the book sequence in the first 2 minutes
21:20 <ZephyrStar> onesec
21:20 <yoko> ah full house here tonight.
21:20 <quadir> and yet I think it's one of the most neat things in this video
21:20 <PaperIsland> Niotex: I wouldn't say horrible.
21:21 <ZephyrStar> Mass Murder, Paradoxial Sleep
21:21 <Niotex> no see this is horrible
21:21 <quadir> from the MMV's I've watched, this elimination of the borders on each frame of a seeming comic worked really well
21:21 <Niotex> the point of I want to kill myself would be roman new times in pink + white
21:22 <teya> quadir: what do you mean?
21:22 <G_Q> The text is sometimes a bit too fast and furious.
21:22 <PaperIsland> I think Kievits is going for an idea and not a personality
21:22 <teya> Niotex: where's that?
21:22 <PaperIsland> I dont' think they're completely comparable
21:23 <G_Q> On the big screen, it might get lost on a crowd.
21:23 <Niotex> teya not in this video I'm just giving an example
21:23 <teya> oh okay
21:24 <quadir> Niotex: the first text inside the vortex at around 20 seconds is meant to look like the title font. the layer fonts are fine, they are grainy and too big and work fine. the "writing on the film" stuff worked really well, and looked great. the lyric font was a typewriter style in empty space
21:24 <quadir> and the font in the book was cursive taking away from a pool of blood
21:25 <quadir> er not cursive
21:25 <quadir> but a more serif font all the same
21:25 <Niotex> fonts could have been better
21:25 <quadir> true maybe it switched up too often
21:25 <quadir> but I wouldn't say they failed individually
21:25 <Niotex> I can think of a couple fonts that would make it look allot smoother
21:25 <quadir> like the typography I thought harmed the most was the red spray paint in the tunnel
21:25 <teya> it's hard to find fonts, imo
21:26 <quadir> where he used the title font, that was so forced and contrived it really disrupted the intent of putting it on the walls
21:26 <Niotex> its not spraypaint its riotgear inkdrops
21:26 <Rathisponge> ah I thought that was part of the original footage originally quadir
21:26 <Rathisponge> the red font on the walls that is
21:26 <G_Q> teya: Not as hard as all that, actually. I have whole CD discs of fonts.
21:26 <quadir> in the end the poorest font choice seemd to be using the title font at all
21:27 <Niotex> ok let me quote something here to get my point across
21:27 <Niotex> "
21:27 <G_Q> You can probably find thousands, if not tens of thousands, if you know where to look on the Net.
21:27 <Niotex> "you people dont seem to understand that these fx are becoming the new lenseflare"
21:27 <quadir> Rathisponge: maybe it was? in a efects video though I can as easily berate someone for poorly choosing something, as not removing something from a scene that didn't fit
21:27 <teya> G_Q: but you have to find the _right_ ones
21:27 <quadir> Rathisponge: since the work is already so construed
21:27 <Niotex> GQ my font collection currently has 5000+ fonts
21:28 <Niotex> so yeah =| easily
21:28 <PaperIsland> If we dont' understand and we're all fairly versed in AMVs, then maybe it's not the case?
21:28 <teya> because there are so many, it's hard to find a perfect fit
21:28 <Niotex> thats bullshit
21:28 <quadir> Niotex: I hear lens flares are still selling well
21:28 <teya> lol
21:28 <quadir> but I digress
21:28 -!- [Kristyrat] [kristyrat@synIRC-3916ABA8.sfu-reznet.connectwest.net] has joined #amv-review
21:28 <G_Q> I still use them for flashbulbs and gunshots.
21:29 <Niotex> ugh you guys are missing the point though
21:29 <Niotex> Andre enlighten them =|
21:29 <PaperIsland> If I remember correctly, Ozu, who was once a very important Japanese director, said the fade had only been used well one time in a Chaplin film
21:29 <Kristyrat> what point are we on?
21:29 <PaperIsland> Now if anyone said that they'd be laughed at
21:29 <Niotex> now Spoil is using the upcoming new stock presets what everyone will use in the next 12 months
21:30 <Kristyrat> yes
21:30 <quadir> Niotex: I think I would get your point more if it seemed like it was being used in bad faith
21:30 <Kristyrat> what irks me, is that Spoil uses these presets, but they don't acknowledge this, so it's as if they're claiming they created the effects themselves
21:30 <ZephyrStar> yeah that too
21:31 <Kristyrat> honestly, I couldn't care less about presets, but don't claim shit that isn't your own
21:31 <PaperIsland> When would you acknowledge that...? In the credits?
21:31 <ZephyrStar> and after rewatching the video, the story still isn't doing much for me :/
21:31 <Kristyrat> PaperIsland: anywhere, at least make mention of it
21:31 <quadir> If I use a crossfade, do I need to 'acknowledge' it?
21:31 <Kristyrat> put it in the video description for all I care
21:31 <quadir> I mean people thought zephy used a filter to get his 8bit thing
21:31 <teya> i've never seen people credit preset effects
21:31 <quadir> it really doesn't change how the video appears to a viewer
21:31 <Kristyrat> but it's a falsification of howmuch work was put into it
21:31 <Niotex> quadir maybe not to you
21:31 <Niotex> it dos to people like myself
21:32 <PaperIsland> That seems foolish to me. It's like acknowledging that the only thing you should care about is the effort and not the result, if you can see that they're effects and you don't like it, then so be it.
21:32 <PaperIsland> i mean presets*
21:32 <Rathisponge> I agree PaperIsland.
21:32 <ZephyrStar> I don't guess it's so much the presets that bother me, I just think the end result is overrated.
21:32 <Kristyrat> but the effort is important, if someone grabs a stock demo reel, claims it's their own, sure it looks good
21:32 <Kristyrat> but it's not their work
21:32 <Kristyrat> and I'll agree with Chris, I think the end result /was/ overrated
21:33 <quadir> ZephyrStar: it is true that if the presets are easy to apply decently, then people will paste them onto video after video, and we will be tired of seeing them
21:33 <ZephyrStar> yeah
21:33 <Kristyrat> in all actuality, it's nothing all that new in terms of Death Note videos, and I felt like it did a really bad job of tossing in 3d effects where they weren't at all needed
21:33 <Kristyrat> and they looked bad
21:33 <ZephyrStar> and I think these guys are letting the effects control their composition too much, letting them replace the actual story or drive of the video
21:34 <PaperIsland> It seems like worrying excessively about authorship is fighting a losing battle when you're making AMVs
21:34 <Kristyrat> exactly'
21:34 <godix> The only point of this videos existance is effects. Lets face it, when the most exciting thing in your footage is a guy writing you GOTTA use effects cause you sure in hell ain't doing jack shit with the footage. So it becomes a question of how good the effects are. In this case, the effects are 'click. I'm done'. That isn't impressive and that ain't good. If they did that with Shatter, lensflare, or other effects we're familiar with eve
21:34 <quadir> [Kristyrat]: I think I brougth up the book near the 2 minute mark as not really fitting in
21:34 <godix> Which is all fine, except for the fact they didn't find some new stock effects. Almost everything used in this video I can point to vids years old that did it already.
21:34 <Kristyrat> quadir: that's a good point, sure it might look good
21:34 <Kristyrat> but why?
21:34 <ZephyrStar> godix: well said.
21:34 <godix> And that's all I have to say about Spoil without cursing and ranting.
21:35 <G_Q> godix: I don't find that a problem, though.
21:35 <quadir> godix: is the result bad though? I wouldn't say so.
21:35 <G_Q> Been there, done that has been done over and over again.
21:35 <quadir> if anything, the biggest objection to it seems ot be "ugh stock effects not crafted 1 pixel at a time by hand!!!?!?! ughhh!"
21:35 <teya> some effects are better than others to overuse
21:35 <G_Q> "Reinventing The Wheel" is the more accepted term.
21:35 <godix> qaudir: I've tried watching this video 3 times. I have yet to get more than halfway through before I end up screaming 'FUCKING EFFECT WHORE BASTARDS CAN'T EVEN GET THE EFFECTS RIGHT! GOD DAMN WHY DIDN'T WE NUKE RUSSIA WHEN WE HAD THE CHANCE?'
21:35 <quadir> and maybe zephy is right, we'll tire of them when the year is over
21:35 <teya> if there was a vid of all lens flares... i'd be bored
21:35 <godix> So yeah, the result is bad.
21:35 <Kristyrat> quadir: not that it should be crafted hand by hand, but they could at least do something with them
21:36 <teya> flying through 3D is fun
21:36 <Kristyrat> rather than just copy paste
21:36 <Kristyrat> hell, I'll say it's plagiarism
21:36 <Kristyrat> other people /made/ these effects
21:36 <PaperIsland> ................
21:36 <Kristyrat> complex compositions
21:36 <PaperIsland> other people made your footage!!!!!
21:36 <G_Q> Krat: In AMV editing, though there is no such thing as plagarism.
21:36 <Kristyrat> sure they sold them, but they're still being used
21:36 <G_Q> I've seen videos with the same combinations reinvented time and again.
21:36 <quadir> you're coming on a little strong
21:36 <ZephyrStar> but what about
21:37 <godix> quadir: Let me put it this way, if I show you a photoshoped pic where all I did was inverse it then pretend it was the greatest thign ever wouldn't you be sitting there going 'uh, no, you really didn't do much...'
21:37 <ZephyrStar> flying through lens flares in 3d :O
21:37 <Kristyrat> actually, I wouldn't say our footage was plagiarized
21:37 <quadir> and a bit dismissive of other elements in trying to put your point to the forefront
21:37 <teya> ZephyrStar: rofl
21:37 <Kristyrat> because we're /changing/ it
21:37 <Kristyrat> we're not taking an episode, plunking it down, and going 'whheeee look what I did!'
21:37 <godix> That's what this video is. It's presented as the greatest thing ever and i'm sitting here going 'uh, no, you really didn't do much'. It's Decay's Technique Beat in a box and nothing more.
21:38 <PaperIsland> Yeah, but an effect interacts with footage just as much as your footage interacts with your timing
21:38 <Kristyrat> so? timing is something you'll change, or at least consider, to improve upon the footage
21:38 <Kristyrat> timing isn't something that just appears
21:38 <Kristyrat> at least, in most cases
21:38 <PaperIsland> Neither are effects
21:38 <quadir> godix: hm again you play on people's dismissiveness of "pushing a button"
21:38 <godix> The problem is the video would be almost exactly the same if they used strawberry shortcake for their footage. The footage is almost an afterthought. It's all about the effects and there's nothing else to this video
21:38 <Kristyrat> PaperIsland: these ones are
21:39 <Kristyrat> you take a program
21:39 <Kristyrat> you hit 'put this in'
21:39 <Kristyrat> and it does
21:39 <PaperIsland> Every effect was placed at a moment and they interact well together
21:39 <quadir> and you wouldn't ge tthis
21:39 <godix> quadir: Well yeah, because as I said there's nothing else to this video other than them pressing a button.
21:39 <PaperIsland> generally
21:39 <quadir> because you wouldn't have any composition
21:39 <Kristyrat> but they don't
21:39 <Kristyrat> it looks really bad as a whole
21:39 <ZephyrStar> godix gets it
21:39 <ZephyrStar> you can expect Spoil: Minami Ke version soon :O
21:39 <Niotex> I second that
21:39 <ZephyrStar> or another damn Lucky Star remix
21:39 <Rathisponge> I understand what your saying PaperIsland, it does take thought to use effects and time them well with the footage to a create a coohesive and well flowing amv and I believe they did just that.
21:40 <quadir> you'd just have random footage, that didn't fit the song, didn't respect the source or the mood, and perhaps the sum of it's parts is worth more then 1 button press
21:40 <Niotex> give us a weekend and we'll crack out Spoil Minami-Ke/Spoil Lucky Star edition =|
21:40 <PaperIsland> I won't argue that they're shallow or simple, but a lot of people like the way they look
21:40 <Kristyrat> that's like saying putting a lens flare down on a drum beat is cohesive and well flowing
21:40 <godix> quadir: You just described this video for me. Random footage that didn't really fit anything.
21:40 <Niotex> Rathisponge its not flowing -_-
21:40 <quadir> [Kristyrat]: funny you said that, this video isn't drum beat synced, as you would expect as the easy way out.
21:40 -!- PaperIsland [www-data@synIRC-72D05D26.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
21:40 -!- PaperIsland [www-data@synIRC-72D05D26.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #amv-review
21:41 <Kristyrat> not really, it's a common way of synching, but by no means the easiest
21:41 <godix> quadir: There's a reason we're focusing on effects. It's because that's all this video is. Hell, you yourself said as much right at the start
21:41 <quadir> Niotex: being able to duplicate it only proves that given several days, you could put in the same effort.
21:42 <Niotex> no see they were with 3
21:42 <Niotex> and it took them like what? 2 months?
21:42 <ZephyrStar> exactly though
21:42 <teya> it comes down to whether the result was appealing or not, 'd say
21:42 <quadir> godix: I'm not dismissing that, merely pointing to that fact that there's more to using an effect then pushing the button
21:42 <Niotex> I can crank this out in like a week going solo
21:42 <ZephyrStar> because we can choose random clips and make it look just as "good"
21:42 <ZephyrStar> actually the 3d would own theirs >_>
21:42 -!- Fall_Child42 [~toddserge@Dewel0per.panda.nut] has joined #amv-review
21:42 <Niotex> probably
21:42 <PaperIsland> So... the best straight cut video could be cranked out in a day probably
21:42 <Fall_Child42> what i miss?
21:42 <quadir> Niotex: and now you're bragging. some editors put out a video once a year, and others once a week
21:42 <PaperIsland> That doesn't mean it wasn't well thought out and worthwhile
21:42 <Kristyrat> teya: to some, yes it's appealing, but regardless, it's not the masterpiece everyone seems to think it is
21:42 <quadir> Niotex: you're not impressing anyone there.
21:42 <Niotex> thats the thing no need for straight cut
21:42 <Rathisponge> I agree teya, if through the use of effects the amv was good then I have no quarrel with the use of effects
21:42 <godix> Quadir: There's more to GOOD effect use than pressing a button. That's a given. I'm arguing that in THIS video all the effects are is pressing a button.
21:43 <Kristyrat> I've seen much more creative, and appropriate use of effects in other videos
21:43 <Fall_Child42> And the usage of the Text was bad
21:43 <teya> [Kristyrat]: i'm not sure if anyone here thought it was a masterpiece.. just not complete crap
21:43 <Fall_Child42> I'll admit
21:43 <Fall_Child42> I liked it,
21:43 <Kristyrat> I'm not saying it's complete crap, but are you listening to the comments it's getting?
21:43 <teya> [Kristyrat]: though yes, they got some comments to that effect on the site
21:43 <Fall_Child42> but it was drug out a little long
21:43 <ZephyrStar> yeah, I mean I found it fun the first time through
21:43 <PaperIsland> This is the worst editor bias I've ever seen in the review... say why an effect didnt' work, not that it was too easy to do
21:44 <quadir> godix: from all of dcg's videos I've had to sit through, I'd say while not perfect, or any "greatest feat of video editing", this was fairly cohesive on the whole
21:44 <Kristyrat> it didn't work because it looked bad
21:44 <Kristyrat> and it had no purpose
21:44 <Niotex> <quadir> Niotex: and now you're bragging. some editors put out a video once a year, and others once a week - I've been working on the same 37 sec video for over 4 months now =| but this is a walk in the park all I gotta do is smack presets on so its seriously a peice of cake
21:44 <godix> My view of effects, simplified: If the entire point of the effects is 'Hey look what I can do' then your video sucks. If the effects are 'Hey look, I was able to use these to enhance the overall video' then great. This is clearly a 'hey look what button we found' video.
21:44 <Kristyrat> I figured that was pretty obvious
21:44 <Rathisponge> It did seem to drag on for a bit Fall_Child42
21:44 <PaperIsland> What do you mean bad? It seemed like a cohesive dark gritty look throughout
21:44 <PaperIsland> I found it interesting
21:44 <Kristyrat> doesn't matter if it's cohesive
21:44 <quadir> [Kristyrat]: no. you seem to be reacting to fame and jealousy for praise you don't think is deserved. Not what's being said in the review.
21:44 <Kristyrat> it still looks visually bad
21:44 <Fall_Child42> There was a point about 2/3 of the way through that it could have faded out and been much better
21:44 <Niotex> your simpleminded it seems then
21:44 <Kristyrat> quadir: my fault for missing most of this review
21:45 <Niotex> simpleminded and uneducated =|
21:45 <Fall_Child42> quadir, Wow
21:45 <Fall_Child42> Ouch
21:45 <Kristyrat> I'm simply stating exactly how I feel about the video
21:45 <Kristyrat> also
21:45 <Kristyrat> I really couldn't care less about fame
21:45 <Fall_Child42> Also thats probably wrong
21:45 <PaperIsland> I'm not trying to attack anyone here... I graduated with a degree in film studies
21:45 <Kristyrat> if I did, I would release a lot more 'popular' videos
21:45 <Niotex> clearly you dont know anything about motiongraphics though paper =|
21:45 <Rathisponge> I disagree godix.
21:46 <Fall_Child42> I think what surprised me most about this is that three people made it
21:46 <PaperIsland> If a lot of people clicked with a video, I think it's worth thinking about why they enjoyed it
21:46 <G_Q> Nio: Sometimes you have to be an editor, sometimes a viewer.
21:46 <PaperIsland> just because the "editor elite" couldnt' get over the pre-used effects or lack of a story
21:46 <Kristyrat> PaperIsland: and a lot of people click with mediocre naruto videos
21:46 <Fall_Child42> and three people missed the kinda lame use of effects
21:46 <Kristyrat> it happens
21:46 <G_Q> From an editor's POV, sure, it's probably lamesauce.
21:46 <Kristyrat> also, since when am I the editor elite?
21:46 <godix> PaperIsland: At one point a lot of people liked pauly shore. I don't judge videos by if a lot of other people liked it.
21:46 <PaperIsland> And I think it's worth thinking about why instead of saying "most of the planet is stupid, so there"
21:46 <G_Q> Put it in front of a crowd, and it's an enjoyable view.
21:47 <G_Q> And not all AMV viewers are editors. :|
21:47 <godix> PaperIsland: Ok, dismissing the effects and lack of story, what else is there to this video?
21:47 <Fall_Child42> [Kristyrat]: when you made cognative dissonance and stopped making inuyasha videos
21:47 <Fall_Child42> you whore
21:47 <Kristyrat> Q:
21:47 <ZephyrStar> G_Q: I'd have to agree a little
21:47 <ZephyrStar> con viewing vs downloaded viewing are a little different
21:47 <Fall_Child42> G_Q: sadly i have to agree alot
21:48 <ZephyrStar> but I'd still be thinking the same thing at the con
21:48 -!- Kionon [~Kionon@8B8E8E29.14EC071A.BC69655D.IP] has joined #amv-review
21:48 <ZephyrStar> (and probably have a little more fun if the crowd was into it)
21:48 <PaperIsland> Well, it's expressing the inner turmoil of the character through the effects; just like kurt cobain expressed the angst and disconnect of a generation of youth
21:48 <Fall_Child42> but thats where this whole "critiquing videos is lame because it's all subjective" view comes in
21:48 <godix> So yeah, call me and elitist editor for saying these effects suck and there's nothing to the video besides effects. But I have yet to hear anyone say one thing about this video that was good except the effects
21:48 <PaperIsland> through grunge style
21:48 <Fall_Child42> well not lame
21:48 <Niotex> paperisland you are really lame -_-
21:48 <Kristyrat> that's probably a distinction we should recognize, that some viewers aren't editors
21:48 <Niotex> I mean REALLY
21:48 <quadir> you just lost me paper :(
21:48 <quadir> and I was rooting for you and everything
21:48 <Kristyrat> average viewers won't recognize the difference between a lot of things
21:48 <ZephyrStar> wow
21:48 <inthesto> Okay
21:49 <inthesto> I have yet to see this video
21:49 <Fall_Child42> PaperIsland: Kurt Cobain hated the term "Grunge" it was a marketing scheme and he called it as such
21:49 <inthesto> But I'm going to watch it for the first time with PaperIsland's framework in mind
21:49 <Niotex> paperisland KO?
21:49 <inthesto> Let's see how this pans out
21:49 <Fall_Child42> ahhh ha ha ha
21:49 <Fall_Child42> sto
21:49 <Fall_Child42> remember
21:49 <Rathisponge> I believe PaperIsland is referring to his earlier statement of the video being used as a walk through the characters mind
21:49 <ZephyrStar> quite actually, if I wanted to show the character's inner turmoil, I think Douggie's AWA master's video expresses this ENDLESSLY better
21:49 <PaperIsland> And that's fine
21:50 <PaperIsland> But douggie's video is difficult for the average viewer, it's more cerebral
21:50 <quadir> ZephyrStar: now you're saying "person X did it better". Only one movie gets to win the oscar for best picture. doesn't mean everything else sucked.
21:50 <PaperIsland> It's harder to enjoy if you dont' think about it, I think
21:50 <PaperIsland> becuase the sound is jarring and the look is confusing
21:50 <ZephyrStar> quadir: true, but there's a reason you win an oscar
21:50 <PaperIsland> There's no main chracter to connect to
21:50 <godix> quadir: But just because some vids are good even if they aren't the best doesn't mean THIS vid is good just because it's not the best
21:50 <teya> lol
21:51 <Fall_Child42> you see, I feel that the reason editors focus on technical aspects like Stock effects is because we realize that arguing that "i didn't like it" "but other people like it" is entirely subjective
21:51 <quadir> without reading into it like PaperIsland is doing, I do think the effects flowed with the music, while it fell into "look at this cool effect" trap a few times, for most of the video it actually avoided most of the obvious traps
21:51 <Fall_Child42> PS i have beer
21:51 <godix> FC: Actually in this case I'm doing it because I see nothing to this video other than effects. It is seriously random footage with some effects tossed over it to give it a 'gritty' feel with no soul.
21:51 <Fall_Child42> and it is awesome
21:52 <Niotex> Todd =| Pussy?
21:52 <Kristyrat> Todd: aye, just mentioned that to Mitch and Chris
21:52 <Fall_Child42> godix: I agree
21:52 <Fall_Child42> ITT we critique beer.
21:52 <godix> Also, I didn't like it. But there are lots of videos I don't like that I acknowledge are good. This I don't like and I also don't think is good
21:52 <quadir> godix: I'm not seeing random footage, there seems to be continuety here, even if I'm meh about any kind of felling evoked from it
21:53 <PaperIsland> All I've been saying and I don't know why people are so angry about this, is that a lot of people like it and it's worth asking why they like it... sure, maybe it's the effects, but why do they like the effects?
21:53 <godix> quadir: It's a guy writing. Seriously, get a fucking life if you think a guy writing is 'continuty' or anything other than random footage of a guy writing.
21:53 <Fall_Child42> Paper Island ... we can't argue against people liking it
21:53 <Fall_Child42> thats stupid
21:53 <Niotex> because they are uneducated masses that are easily impressed
21:53 <Fall_Child42> we can only argue why we don't like it
21:54 <quadir> godix: doesn't the writting just start halfway through the video?
21:54 <PaperIsland> But that's such a pointless thing to say, they still have reasons
21:54 <godix> PaperIsland: You're missing something here, I don't give a fuck why I like it. Why others like or dislike it has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of this video.
21:54 <quadir> godix: and at that it's pretty limited and layered away
21:54 <Niotex> no they dont
21:54 <Fall_Child42> and thats because of the effects and lack of story or anything interesting
21:54 <Niotex> again ignorant masses
21:54 <Niotex> that sums it up
21:54 <godix> quadir: So, the footage itself is limited and layered away? That's some indepth meaning there.
21:54 <Kristyrat> I have to agree with Todd, the point of this is to explain why /we/ like or don't like it
21:54 <inthesto> Oh wow
21:54 <PaperIsland> But the review is not about people just coming in and giving a video a thumbs up or down
21:54 <Kristyrat> how can we speak for the masses?
21:54 <inthesto> I'm not sure I can look straight after that much shaking
21:54 <godix> er. I don't give a fuck why OTHERS like it.
21:55 <Niotex> Paper your logics are beyond me
21:55 <Niotex> this is a review
21:55 <Niotex> not a daycare center
21:55 <Fall_Child42> PaperIsland: I know we are saying why WE don't like it
21:55 <PaperIsland> But you're acting like it should be obvious, not all videos become popular, but this one did
21:55 <Rathisponge> what are the masses ignorant and uneducated about niotex? in regards to this amv?
21:55 <inthesto> I'm going to say a lot of stuff was overdone
21:55 <inthesto> i.e. SHAKING and OLD FILM EFFECT
21:56 <Niotex> compositing/fx/presets LIFE
21:56 <godix> PaperIsland: Popular does NOT equal good. It doesn't equal bad. Popular just equals popular. What does that have to do with the work itself?
21:56 <Kristyrat> x2
21:56 <quadir> inthesto: think the film effect was used to make the mashup of scenes more acceptable?
21:56 <Rathisponge> ah
21:56 <quadir> like some kind of smooth filter, it introduces noise so you don't notice the other noise as much
21:56 <teya> quadir: interesting theory
21:56 <inthesto> quadir: Maybe, but I'd have to see it without the filter to be sure
21:57 <Fall_Child42> I'm gonna cover every frame in my video with so much blur you cant see anything
21:57 <ZephyrStar> hell that's what I did
21:57 <ZephyrStar> and apparently people like it
21:57 <Fall_Child42> and that way the scenes will flow together
21:57 <ZephyrStar> and I don't know why ;_;
21:57 <PaperIsland> You're assuming that the purpose of this review is to only uncover why something was good, I think it's to uncover why a video worked for one person or didn't work
21:57 <quadir> I would of thought it was better without it, but maybe the mashups become really obvious and stand out too much, breaking any kind of cohesiveness they have
21:57 <Fall_Child42> actually
21:57 <Kristyrat> I think they used the noise to introduce some meagre aspect of similarity throughout the video
21:57 <Fall_Child42> in the name of flow
21:57 <godix> Niotex: Don't do luckystar with these effects. Do a blank white screenw ith these effects. It'd make me laugh.
21:57 <Kristyrat> it links everything, sure, it's like tossing a glow on everything
21:57 <inthesto> I have to agree that a lot of stuff felt "thrown in"
21:57 <Fall_Child42> I will reduce all opacity to 0
21:58 <inthesto> Like all the writing effects and the drawing outlines stuff
21:58 <quadir> ZephyrStar: well, you admitted to getting some enjoyment from it, even if in the long run you don't understand why other people liked it to the amount they did
21:58 <Fall_Child42> sto really?
21:58 <quadir> and I don't think anyone tonight has thrown themselves on the ground in worship
21:58 <Niotex> godix nah I'll do it just for the sake of showing how easy it is even with a luvable konata =|
21:58 <ZephyrStar> (I was referring to kagami eated your soul :/)
21:58 <Fall_Child42> the thing i liked the least was the typography
21:58 <quadir> but neither are they spitting on something just because others like it that way
21:58 <inthesto> I don't know shit about typography
21:58 <godix> Niotex: I'd suggest a title of something wicked this way comes but that's already been done.
21:58 <Fall_Child42> sto neither do I
21:58 <inthesto> But when they were focused ont he journal and the letters were writing themselves
21:58 <Kristyrat> I do >_>
21:58 <inthesto> I was kind of like "Okay, let's move on"
21:59 <inthesto> I think the video was going well up until 1:05
21:59 <ZephyrStar> I do too >_>
21:59 <ZephyrStar> sto: yeah that's where it kinda lost me
21:59 <PaperIsland> I personally, would really like to see the popularity of this duplicated if someone feels up to it...
21:59 <quadir> [Kristyrat]: hm, it's not like DN has big colour differences to break the scenes up from each other, or maybe it did and they did a decent colour correction?
21:59 <godix> In unrelated news, some people apparently actually belive my dad died while fucking a dog. The org astounds me sometimes.
22:00 <quadir> inthesto: yeah a few people have said that part feels thrown in, even if it is neat in a few ways
22:00 <ZephyrStar> PaperIsland: 2009..just wait :/
22:00 <Kionon> I note I'm reading, but I am not participating.
22:00 <Kristyrat> quadir: no it doesn't, but they also did some weird stuff in the video, they'd have b/w scenes, then bam, full colour
22:00 <Kristyrat> with no real reason as to why
22:00 * Niotex ignore PaperIsland
22:00 <Niotex> err oops <_<
22:00 <Niotex> aww who am I kidding =O
22:00 <Niotex> I did that long ago
22:00 <yoko> :(
22:00 <PaperIsland> I don't see why you're being so antagonistic niotex
22:00 <Kristyrat> that's just the way he is
22:00 <godix> PaperIsland: The only way a duplicate would be popular is if it used Naruto. Since you keep going back to it's popularity, a large part of that popularity is because DN is the new Naruto for people to mindlessly love anything related to it no matter how bad
22:01 <Fall_Child42> because you make no sense
22:01 <Fall_Child42> at all
22:01 <Fall_Child42> for anyone
22:01 <Fall_Child42> even yourself
22:01 <PaperIsland> I make plenty of sense
22:01 <PaperIsland> You're just looking at film from a different perspective
22:01 <Kristyrat> okay, now you've lost me
22:01 <Fall_Child42> what film?
22:01 <Fall_Child42> what the hell are you talking about?
22:01 <PaperIsland> video, film, whatever
22:02 <inthesto> Oh, are we bitching abou this video being popular?
22:02 <inthesto> I forgot about that.
22:02 <quadir> PaperIsland: this video did seem to rouse a big reaction out of a lot of people.
22:02 <PaperIsland> It's just a societal approach
22:02 <PaperIsland> like people study sociology
22:02 <godix> sto: No, but paperisland keeps bringing up it's popularity as if that was a saving grace for the video or something
22:02 <PaperIsland> you can look at a video for it's societal value
22:02 <Fall_Child42> yes because i didn't like the text I am expressing my entire veiw of the film industry
22:02 <PaperIsland> It's not a saving grace
22:02 <Fall_Child42> seriously
22:02 <PaperIsland> You guys are making a judgement leap
22:02 <Fall_Child42> what are you talking about
22:02 <quadir> inthesto: yeah [Kristyrat] introduced that bit
22:02 <PaperIsland> I"m not saying it's good or bad
22:02 <Fall_Child42> sociology?
22:03 <Niotex> leap of faith!
22:03 <Fall_Child42> here's an idea
22:03 <Fall_Child42> Ying
22:03 <PaperIsland> I'm saying, what in a video makes it worth watching to someone
22:03 <godix> PaperIsland: It's societal value is to make a bunch of emo's sitting in their parents basement with cuts on their wrists and writing bad fanfics feel good about themselves.
22:03 <Kionon> the only thing to do is jump over the moon
22:03 <PaperIsland> And I think that's worth thinking about godix.
22:03 <quadir> okay guys guys
22:03 <quadir> and gals
22:03 <PaperIsland> Why do a bunch of emo kids cling to things like this and reject society?
22:03 <Fall_Child42> how would a man with damage to wernike's area express displeasure with this video?
22:03 <quadir> guys and gals
22:03 <Kristyrat> PaperIsland: and we're explaining why we didn't like the video
22:03 <godix> Yes, it's worth thinking "GOOD FUCKING GOD, UP THE TRACKS YOU MORONS'
22:03 -!- mode/#amv-review [+m] by quadir
22:03 <quadir> guys and gals
22:03 <quadir> we're gona move on
22:04 <quadir> it's obvious this video is raising a lot of pretty big opinions on a few things
22:04 <quadir> I really hope people will continue in the forums so more people can participate
22:04 -!- mode/#amv-review [-m] by quadir
22:04 * Niotex grabs a beer =|
22:04 <Fall_Child42> aww lame
22:04 <Kristyrat> so
22:04 <Kristyrat> TF2?
22:04 <Fall_Child42> quadir lame
22:04 <quadir> I've seen everyone in here voice their opinion
22:04 <Niotex> I'm down :up:
22:04 <Fall_Child42> I just got here
22:04 <yoko> :o
22:04 <quadir> and we're rehashing a lot now
22:04 <quadir> so I think we can move on
22:04 <Fall_Child42> I'm not done yet
22:04 <teya> bonus?
22:05 <yoko> I'd like to hear more opinions on this.
22:05 <teya> Fall_Child42: forums =)
22:05 <Fall_Child42> I have yet to express my displeasure with the lack of girls with bells
22:05 <yoko> very well
22:05 <Kristyrat> Todd: amen
22:05 <Fall_Child42> has anyone said that yet?
22:05 <Niotex> Amen..
22:05 <godix> FC: True, there was a disturbing lack of T&A wasn't there?
22:05 <Fall_Child42> yes
22:05 <ZephyrStar> here you go
22:05 <ZephyrStar> http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs10/300W/i ... rose12.jpg
22:05 <Niotex> where be my loli at =|
22:05 <Kristyrat> that would certainly make it more popular
22:05 <Fall_Child42> even some naked blonde chick from that show would have helped
22:05 <godix> And popular means something.
22:05 <Kionon> It's death note, do you expect t&a?
22:06 <Kionon> I certainly hope not.
22:06 <inthesto> Yes.
22:06 -!- quadir changed the topic of #amv-review to: Main http://a-m-v.org/video/153974 Bonus http://a-m-v.org/video/1838 | quadir@animemusicvideos.org <-- submit for next review, get to vote on the vid!
22:06 <Fall_Child42> speaking of T&A godix
22:06 <inthesto> I expect tits and ass in everything.
22:06 <inthesto> Including gay porn.;
22:06 <Rathisponge> Thank you very much for hosting the review quadir.
22:06 <Fall_Child42> have you seen TJ's new video about cat rape?
22:06 <quadir> Rathisponge: yeah quiete the heated thing it seems
22:06 <Kristyrat> wow
22:06 <Kristyrat> old video :O
22:06 <G_Q> Good choice, Quadir.
22:06 <G_Q> :)
22:06 <yoko> HERE IS UR GAY
22:06 <Rathisponge> Good night ladies and gentlemen, sweet dreams :)
22:06 <yoko> http://youtube.com/watch?v=oF1DvJTRIz8
22:06 <godix> FC: Yeah. I told TJ it makes the 'spot the rape theme' no fun when he includes obvious cat fucking.
22:06 <quadir> submit videos!
22:06 <ZephyrStar> good discussion guys.
22:06 <Kristyrat> aye, gotta concur the review was good
22:07 <quadir> we really need submissions
22:07 <Kionon> Ah, seen it.
22:07 -!- Rathisponge [~Rathispon@synIRC-A804D654.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: “To understand everything is to forgive everything� - Siddhartha]
22:07 <quadir> and you get to vote too!
22:07 <Kionon> Vlad is made of *up*
22:07 <G_Q> Seen this one back 3 years ago.
22:07 <godix> Ah yeah, memories dance. Now that is a kick ass video.
22:07 <G_Q> Still have it in my collection.
22:07 <quadir> I really can't believe it's from 2001
22:07 -!- PaperIsland [www-data@synIRC-72D05D26.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)]
22:07 <Fall_Child42> can we choose not to vote?
22:07 <Kristyrat> seems like it wasn't so long ago
22:07 <quadir> because I look at the other videos from 2001 I liked and then I put this one beside it
22:07 <quadir> Fall_Child42: yes
22:08 <quadir> and they seem a mile appart
22:08 <Fall_Child42> i might submit stuff
22:08 <Kionon> Vlad made a basic KOE video in 1993. By 2001 he was an expert.
22:08 <Kionon> KOR rather.
22:08 <Fall_Child42> too bad i'm not around monday evening
22:08 <Fall_Child42> s
22:08 <Kristyrat> same
22:08 <godix> quadir: Not to drag up discussions you've determined are over with, but memories dance is a good example of effects ENHANCING the video instead of being the video.
22:08 <Kristyrat> (was going to say the same)
22:09 <quadir> godix: feel free to talk about dance, and I don't think the discussion on the main is far from over, just that maybe we should take a breth, reflect on it a bit, and post more coherent replies on the forums where more people can participate
22:11 <Fall_Child42> how more coherently can i say "I didn't like it all that much"
22:12 <quadir> if you haven't watched memories dance rather recently, I really recommend taking this chance to dig it up again
22:13 <godix> Actually i find it kinda interesting, tonight just furthered what I already noticed. Almost without exception the people I'd consider 'experienced' in amvs hate Spoil. Almost without exception those who like it are ones I wouldn't think know that much about the hobby.
22:13 <Kionon> I honestly decided not to bother downloading it.
22:14 <Kristyrat> godix: well that's the definition I think we should consider
22:14 <Kristyrat> viewers love it
22:14 <Kristyrat> viewers also love naruto
22:14 <Kristyrat> editors know what require effort
22:14 <godix> Kionon: You'd hate it. Even if it was well done and had more than effects, it's still the type of video you'd just hate.
22:14 <quadir> godix: it didn't seem so clear cut to me. not hating is not the same as loving
22:14 <Kionon> godix: From the tone of what I heard, I established that.
22:15 <godix> quadir: Thing is I've seen very few 'meh' opinions on it. It usually falls into thinking it's a huge steaming pile of shit or the greatest thing evar. Not saying there aren't meh opinions out there, or even that some in here aren't meh, just usually this video leads people to the extremes of great or shit
22:15 <teya> i rather enjoy memories dance..
22:16 <teya> it's true, imo, the effects were used well
22:16 <quadir> godix: most people here seemed to think it fell somewhere in the middle
22:16 <teya> but that's not what i noticed about the vid
22:16 <quadir> with a few loud 'pile of shitters'
22:17 <Kristyrat> I don't think any of us are claiming it's a pile of shit, because honestly, there's a /lot/ of worse stuff out there
22:17 <Kristyrat> it's not a terrible video at all, it's just that the use of effects is objectionable, and the video relies /heavily/ on those effects
22:17 <godix> quadir: I was speaking of more than -review. Although review did bring out some defenses, although some rather weak ass moronic 'it's popular so it must be good' defenses.
22:18 <godix> And I'll agree with krat, there are worse out there. But this is definately one of those 'delete after seeing 30 seconds of it' vids.
22:18 <quadir> godix: that seemed to be only paper at the very end
22:18 <Kristyrat> Paper did defend it pretty vehemently, though somewhat incoreherently
22:18 <quadir> the first 45m of the review was pretty balanced
22:19 <Kristyrat> (sorry)
22:19 <Kristyrat> I honestly didn't mean to take the review on a 'it sucks because people like it' track
22:19 <quadir> just nio/[kris]/godix insistence that the video should be dismissed based on an editor effort argument made people who were merely "yeah it had its moments and I liked X and disliked Y" then in the position of defending the merits it did have
22:20 <Kristyrat> but I felt those merits weren't anything greater than a standard, mediocre video
22:21 <Kristyrat> I truly do feel that without those effects, there's nothing there
22:21 <godix> Sorry but I honestly believe the video has absolutely no merit to it other than effects. So it all comes down to how good were the effects, and in this case they weren't good.
22:21 <Kristyrat> and the effects weren't at all good enough (imo) to support a video
22:21 <godix> Actually I just said this in a different conversation but it's relevent here: I have yet to see a DN vid worth jack shit. I haven't seen DN but I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that it's because when your most exciting scene in the source is a guy writing you GOTTA do effects to spice it up. And going down that road it quickly becomes a vid that's nothing but effects. At least, that's how most DN vids I've seen are.
22:22 <quadir> godix: I don't think anyone disputed the effects part godix, but your argument is really flawed. When people tried to discuss with you the merits of the effects, you came back at them asking them if they thought the video had more then effects, because clearly it did not and they were stupid
22:22 <Fall_Child42> PaperIsland needs help with using the english language to make reasoned arguments.
22:22 <Fall_Child42> i honestly had no idea what he was saying
22:22 <quadir> [Kristyrat]: in my op I mentioned knives and waffles
22:22 <Fall_Child42> or she
22:23 <quadir> Fall_Child42: I did but only vaguely. It was an interesting tangeant but not really within the scope of this discussion or what people were at all thinking about
22:23 <Fall_Child42> grundge and nirvana?
22:23 <Kionon> A video that has no coherency behind "WOW PRETTY" pisses me off. Which is why I think godix says I'd hate it.
22:23 <godix> quadir: It's all about the effects. People were trying to say the effects enhanced a meaning of mental illness or something like that. They didn't, they were just effects with no meaning. You could stick a blank white screen in place of the footage and the video wouldn't be any better or worse.
22:23 <quadir> but rathi,teya,gq and I were all mentioning reasons why it might have merits.
22:23 <godix> Kio: Actually I think you've hate it because you tend not to like overly obvious effects and you definately aren't of an emo mindset
22:24 <quadir> godix: hm, I think paper took it too far but his general idea applies, but that's more the feel the anime already has
22:26 <godix> quadir: maybe but I saw no meaning beyond 'what does this button do?' and while it did have a mood it's nothing new, I can point to many videos older than this that had similar effects and mood.
22:26 <quadir> godix: so again, you just posed me the "is it or is it not about the effects?" we are already on common ground
22:26 <quadir> it had mood and flow and cohesion
22:27 <godix> Mood I'll grant you. Flow it failed at in several spots. Cohesion? The only way I could say this video has cohesion is that it was all in one file.
22:27 <quadir> even if it didn't have story, real emotional movement, depth or visual sense
22:27 <Kionon> godix: I hate effects for the sake of effects.
22:27 <quadir> flow did fail in at least 2 spots I could see, but at a 4 minute video I won't say it didn't have flow because of that
22:27 <Kionon> So I think you're right.
22:27 <quadir> Kionon: that's the 5th time you've said that
22:28 <godix> Kio: I know. You'd hate this video. Even if it had story, emotional involvement, depth, or visual sense.
22:28 <Kionon> quadir: sorry, I lost count. I thought it was only thrice.
22:28 <quadir> Kionon: I randomly added a select # of times that you've said it in the past
22:29 <Kionon> Oh.
22:29 <Kionon> It's true.
22:29 <Kionon> CLASSIC STYLE GOGOGO.
22:29 <quadir> see the bonus
22:29 <Kionon> I have.
22:30 <godix> quadir: Under normal circumstances I would think breaking flow once or twice in a four minute video isn't bad. When flow is one of the only things the video has going for it thought it suddenly becomes real bad. If there was more to Spoil I'd not care about flow breaking but there isn't.
22:31 <godix> So watching Spoil becomes 'Well at least it has flow I guess..' *BREAK* 'nevermind.'
2008 February 047-04 January 046-31, 045-21, 044-14, 043-07
2007 December 042-31, 041-24, 040-17, 039-10, 038-03 November 037-26, 036-19, 035-12, 034-05
October 033-29, 032-22, 031-15, 030-08, 029-01, September 028-24, 027-17, 026-10, 025-03
August 024-27, 023-20, 022-13, 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19
and for something hailed as one of the best videos ever... it was severly dissapointed
