AMV Review #22: Emong's Fall of an Empire

[quadir]

The concept: free op the chosen amv, then video discussion in irc
Where: #amv-review irc.zirc.org (web client)
When: Every Monday, 20:30 EDT (8:30pm)
After: free-for-all video-related chat the rest of the week

This week's video:
(Emong) - 2007 - Fall of an Empire
Category: Romance
Anime: Loveless [Spoilers]
Song: Radiohead - Paranoid Android

Bonus Video:
(GaijinFactory) - 2004 - Sweet Dreams Eternal
Category: MAD
Anime: Kanon (PC)
Song: 1999 Shoujo-tai - Forever

We want video suggestions, pm me or email quadir@animemusicvideos.org don't post em in the thread.
We are also looking for a 3rd judge to pick videos, we'll be on the lookout for consistent submitters.

If you want to beta your video, or watch & comment on betas, lurk moar in #amv-review during the week.

Archive:
2007 August 021-06, July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19

[quadir]

IRC Participants: DriftRoot (Lauren), `Eclipse (Blake Stevens), G_Q (GloryQuestor - John Wendel), Hunter (The Origonal Head Hunter - Lash Walker), NerdStrudel (Blain T.), Orwell, Otohiko, PaperIsland (Nathaniel Sticco), quadir (Olivier Beaton), RathiSponge (Billy Welch), Sub0 (Ben)

21:14 <NerdStrudel> I liked the use of the cookie cutter
21:14 <NerdStrudel> Personally <_<
21:14 <quadir> which?
21:14 <NerdStrudel> it was throughout the whole vid
21:14 <NerdStrudel> the rectangles
21:14 <Otohiko> I don't think the effects here deserve some of the flak that I bet they're gonna get from the 'conservatives' here :-P
21:14 <quadir> ah right
21:14 <Hunter> I liked the effects in general, worked well with the still scenes to make it look like action was happening
21:14 <Otohiko> unless I'm wrong
21:15 <orwell> I guess this means I have to put down the razor blade and watch the thing in full
21:15 <Otohiko> that was some really impressive editing, cookiecutter or not - the editor probably spent an insane amount of time on all this
21:15 <NerdStrudel> Prolly
21:15 <Otohiko> I don
21:15 <Otohiko> err
21:15 <Rathisponge> I enjoyed the effects, though I felt during the middle part of the video, the gray overtone was used a little too long
21:15 <Otohiko> I don't think I got where this video was going
21:15 <Otohiko> maybe because I didn't see the source
21:15 <NerdStrudel> I don't think the video had a story...
21:15 <Otohiko> it is a bit on the long side
21:16 <quadir> ^ lol
21:16 <Hunter> it was your usual Loveless video, not much else to say of the story
21:16 <Otohiko> though as an advocate of not cutting songs unless one feels right about it... I can't complain
21:16 <NerdStrudel> Eh it was fine
21:16 <Otohiko> did the anime have a story?
21:16 <NerdStrudel> No complaints
21:16 <Hunter> Oto: catboy yaoi, nothing else to say
21:16 <NerdStrudel> *shudders*
21:16 <eclipse> i thought it was ok
21:17 <Otohiko> I still like it
21:17 <NerdStrudel> Yah
21:17 <NerdStrudel> It was a very good vid
21:17 <Otohiko> I don't want to make it sound bad, but it makes a damn good screensaver
21:17 <NerdStrudel> Lol
21:17 <Otohiko> and again, I mean that in a good way
21:17 <Rathisponge> I believe I saw a theme of photography used within the video, though I didnt understand why it was being used
21:17 <PaperIsland> Is there more meaning if you've seen the anime? (anyone who has seen the anime feel free to answer...)
21:17 <Otohiko> I liked the use of color, though some of the noise etc. seemed overused
21:17 <NerdStrudel> I don't think the Tv simulator was needed for this amv
21:18 <NerdStrudel> ...
21:18 <NerdStrudel> but whatever
21:18 <Otohiko> I'm not sure where it ended
21:18 <Hunter> I thought the greyscale was pointless
21:18 <Otohiko> I did like the last sequence where it went all color
21:18 <PaperIsland> I thought the "photography" was kind of about the guy with the ears being exploited
21:18 <Otohiko> and action-like
21:19 <quadir> Otohiko: at 'i hate mirrors', the song switch
21:19 <Rathisponge> ah I can see what you mean
21:19 <NerdStrudel> Yah
21:19 <NerdStrudel> what was with the Ihate mirrors
21:19 <NerdStrudel> ?
21:19 <Otohiko> I hate mirrors too
21:19 <Otohiko> unless I'm reflected in them :o
21:19 <Rathisponge> I did not understand that part either
21:19 <DriftRoot> @_@
21:19 <Otohiko> a reference to the anime?
21:20 <Hunter> I didn't even notice the song switch
21:20 <quadir> or the plot he thought he was conveying
21:20 <PaperIsland> Well, they're kind of about reflecting on one's self... so maybe he was upset with what he had become or something
21:20 <orwell> needs less gaycatsex
21:20 <Otohiko> orwell: if that's sex, then I'm a cat
21:20 <quadir> Hunter: yeah it was really seamless, I only noticed the text at the song switch on the 3rd viewing
21:20 <Rathisponge> hmm I see what you mean paperisland
21:20 <G_Q> My only gripe with the video was that, between 3:35 to 5:38, it was really, really slow.
21:20 <orwell> It was seamless I'll agree, but I still noticed it
21:21 <Otohiko> G_Q: yea, if I had to suggest cutting down a part
21:21 <Otohiko> that would be the part
21:21 <NerdStrudel> Oh.. 2 songs used?
21:21 <G_Q> I, also.
21:21 <Otohiko> dragged on, for sure
21:21 <NerdStrudel> well there ya go
21:21 <PaperIsland> It was just one song
21:21 <G_Q> Otherwise, very slick editing.
21:21 <orwell> Oto: You already got the gay cat sex
21:21 <quadir> G_Q: my first viewing was done in 3 sittings. I just couldn't watch more
21:21 <PaperIsland> until the end credits
21:21 <orwell> it was a sign of what we'd be reviewing
21:21 <quadir> Otohiko: at the same time, the quality didn't go down at all, which is crazy
21:22 <quadir> and the editing style changes a bit
21:22 <G_Q> I'm feeling like that, also. I pretty much skip that entire 2 minute chunk of the video.
21:22 <eclipse> oops i have to reboot
21:22 <eclipse> brb
21:22 <quadir> like halfway through the 2nd song when it goes full colour
21:22 -!- `eclipse has quit [Quit: rebooting. brb]
21:22 <G_Q> I thought that was a great climax.
21:22 <Hunter> it wasn't even half way, it was the last minute
21:22 <Rathisponge> Quadir : I believe it is one song the entire way
21:23 <Rathisponge> except at the very end
21:23 <quadir> Rathisponge: hm, you sure? he listed 2 songs in the profile
21:23 <Rathisponge> Paranoid Android is played until the very end, at the credits there is a different song
21:24 <quadir> Rathisponge: ah, that's not a song end at 3:30 then?
21:24 <Rathisponge> nah , just a transition within the song
21:25 <Hunter> argh, I must part.
21:25 <quadir> Rathisponge: and the 2nd song is just the credits song?
21:25 -!- Hunter has quit
21:25 <quadir> Hunter: thanks for dropping by, feel free to lurk whenever
21:25 <Rathisponge> correct
21:25 <quadir> thanks for clearing that up
21:25 <orwell> hmmm
21:25 <orwell> That was...
21:25 <orwell> oto's morning
21:26 <Otohiko> what?
21:26 <orwell> this video
21:26 <Otohiko> oeh?
21:26 <Rathisponge> no problem, I did enjoy the transitions within the video itself, very smooth
21:26 <orwell> It's exactly like I envisioned it
21:26 <NerdStrudel> I think that was a gay joke
21:26 <Otohiko> I think I'm offended
21:26 <Otohiko> x__x
21:26 <NerdStrudel> I think it had great flow
21:26 <Otohiko> x2
21:26 <orwell> hah. Fine, should I just call it a exequisite corpse?
21:27 <NerdStrudel> As well with great synch.. without going overboard
21:27 <NerdStrudel> for the most part
21:27 <Otohiko> orwell: actually, that'd be appropriate
21:27 <orwell> Or is that real offense?
21:27 <quadir> the scene selection was difinetly good, and continuous
21:27 <Rathisponge> It did have a very good flow too it, I also felt the scene selections were good however the song I didnt feel fit very well with the anime though imo
21:28 <PaperIsland> But as for the synch, it seems like the editor ignored the specific lyrics most of the time, and then they talk about "the fall of an empire," but it didn't really make much sense to me
21:28 <NerdStrudel> I've never seen the anime (and never will) but it seemed fine to me
21:28 <NerdStrudel> maybe empire of the gay cat boys?
21:28 <Rathisponge> I agree Paperisland
21:28 <DriftRoot> Oh is that where the title came from...the song
21:28 <orwell> I thought it was a rather clear romance video, I don't see how they got empire though
21:28 <NerdStrudel> The song apparently
21:28 -!- `eclipse has joined #amv-review
21:28 * DriftRoot nods
21:28 <quadir> orwell: maybe he's underlining the song lyrics as a metaphor?
21:29 <quadir> the video has a pretty clear romance building of a relationship, enduring it, and then in the end destroying it
21:29 <orwell> it'd help if I could understand what he's saying
21:29 <NerdStrudel> who, the singer?
21:29 <orwell> it's all noise to me
21:29 <Rathisponge> I didnt initially see romance when I first watched the video but looking back I can see that now
21:29 <orwell> or russian
21:29 <NerdStrudel> I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the vid
21:30 <NerdStrudel> Well.. tehre is obviously romance
21:30 <quadir> Rathisponge: harder to spot because it's properly done
21:30 <quadir> it creeps up on you it's not OMFG SEXS
21:30 <DriftRoot> It's not massive in the anime; btw
21:30 <DriftRoot> It's pretty subtle; in a freaky kind of way
21:30 <NerdStrudel> Yah,, U can't understand the singer either
21:30 <NerdStrudel> his words mince together
21:30 <NerdStrudel> and stuff
21:31 <quadir> works well with the editing style
21:31 <orwell> The effects at the same time work in it's favor, I just... might be the source, but I just can't jump on the bandwagon for this video
21:31 <NerdStrudel> Which reminds me. I won't be getting any radiohead stuff any time soon
21:31 <quadir> where he's using a lot of transparencies
21:31 <quadir> and overlays
21:31 <orwell> they annoy me after a while
21:31 <NerdStrudel> there is no wagon for this vid
21:31 <orwell> and what's with the color jump at the end?
21:31 <NerdStrudel> it's good. but nobody is saying it's the best thing evar
21:31 <quadir> Otohiko: in so far as the noise I didn't mind it at all, especially when the cymbal at 3:30 clears it all away for the 'destruction'
21:31 <quadir> sortof funny that the video only becauses clear as the relationship starts to fall apart
21:32 <DriftRoot> ooo nice
21:32 <eclipse> i liked that aspect of it
21:32 <Rathisponge> it seems to follow several relationships
21:32 <orwell> The color jump only works for it because of the variation, but I would have preferred they just stick to a b/w solution
21:32 <orwell> Rathi: Not really, guy loves catboy, catboy responds, meets catgirl, loves her, catguy angry, destruction
21:33 <NerdStrudel> indeed.. I like how smoothly it went to everything falling apart :O
21:33 <Otohiko> you forgot profit
21:33 <NerdStrudel> when the song picked up
21:33 <NerdStrudel> but what I didn't like
21:33 <DriftRoot> How many people here have actually SEEN this series??
21:33 <NerdStrudel> was
21:33 <quadir> orwell: the whole song is so dragging on though, the colour change works because the music completely changes
21:33 <orwell> Reminds me of fellini satyricon without the fart jokes, retard gods, and eating dead people
21:33 <quadir> Otohiko: that was win
21:34 <NerdStrudel> the fast turning scenes. cause most of the time they didn't seem to fit
21:34 <orwell> I suppose, but it doesn't seem as... connected as the rest of the video actually is
21:34 <PaperIsland> I was thinking about doing a video to this very song earlier today...
21:34 <orwell> I'm probably gonna cut the songs out and put in some delfin
21:34 <NerdStrudel> dolphin?
21:34 <orwell> yes, delfin
21:35 <orwell> and then I'll put it in my akvarium
21:35 <orwell> heh
21:35 <quadir> also the noise is lessened in the beginning because the piano keys don't have any noise on them
21:35 <NerdStrudel> >=O
21:35 <NerdStrudel> OHHH
21:35 <NerdStrudel> orwell
21:35 <quadir> that is some damn attention to detail
21:35 <NerdStrudel> you're the one that sent me like all that crap that one day
21:35 <NerdStrudel> XD
21:35 <orwell> yes, yes it is. That was a nice touch
21:35 <orwell> the little details like that can really make a video, at least for me
21:35 <NerdStrudel> indeed nice touch :O
21:35 <quadir> and when he does the tv thing same deal
21:35 <NerdStrudel> I love little details in videos
21:36 <NerdStrudel> That's why in my videos
21:36 <NerdStrudel> I'll add effects or something.. That unless you see that aside the actual episode I'm using
21:36 <NerdStrudel> you'd never tell it's diffrent
21:36 <NerdStrudel> but it's really quite badass
21:37 <NerdStrudel> <_<
21:37 <Rathisponge> I enjoy the transitions around 1:40-1:50, seamlessly moves along the scene
21:37 <eclipse> self pimpage is now over, NS
21:37 <quadir> one of the things I really liked about his piano keys was he wasn't afraid to overlap them. He used it for note matching without changing the scene being overlayed, and sometimes he does change it
21:37 <NerdStrudel> Eclipse: I haven't made a vid in 9 months, I have nothing to pimp :O
21:38 <NerdStrudel> but indeed
21:38 <eclipse> w/e
21:38 <NerdStrudel> I beliebe we can all agree
21:38 <quadir> ugh I'm trying to find this one scene but I'm having trouble
21:38 <NerdStrudel> this vid is pretty awsum
21:38 <quadir> the symbal plate
21:38 <NerdStrudel> some small things
21:38 <NerdStrudel> that were.. whatever
21:38 <NerdStrudel> but overall
21:38 <NerdStrudel> good
21:38 <Rathisponge> Ah the crash of the plate?
21:38 <quadir> 2:40
21:39 <quadir> yeah, I really liked that moment
21:39 <Rathisponge> ah yes very well matched, and the scenes leading up to it as well, I can see now a controlling person but its taken almost as still photographs
21:39 <PaperIsland> I wanted more moments like that
21:39 <PaperIsland> I felt he lingered on closeups of faces too much
21:39 <G_Q> If there was one thing about this vid, it was that the transitions between acts were really good.
21:40 <PaperIsland> wait, is the creator a she or a he?
21:40 <G_Q> The plate smashing, the change in color...
21:40 <quadir> PaperIsland: even with all the effects movements ontop of the stills?
21:40 <orwell> the transition around 1:21 seems rather...
21:40 <orwell> out of place
21:40 <orwell> the music doesn't change/sync to that too well
21:40 <NerdStrudel> yah That's why I said
21:40 <NerdStrudel> I didn't like his use of tv simulator
21:41 <NerdStrudel> Cause it didn't match any of the times
21:41 <Rathisponge> ah yes , I agree that transition wasnt quite as appropriate as the others
21:41 <quadir> orwell: >< one of my favorite parts in the vid
21:41 <quadir> orwell: I loved the sortof pane work there where he keep switching left and right as the main focus
21:41 <NerdStrudel> Spoiler: This amv is gehy :O
21:41 <NerdStrudel> <_<
21:41 <quadir> almost like audio channels
21:41 <NerdStrudel> literally
21:41 <orwell> Not saying it wasn't good, but I'm trying to find flaws to nitpick, instead of this just being a circle jerk for how well edited it is
21:41 <orwell> I did like the pane thing
21:42 <NerdStrudel> well. he used Tv simulator badly. i didn't the parts
21:42 <NerdStrudel> where scenes went by fast like at around 5:44
21:42 <orwell> Syncing to stuff the music doesn't support
21:42 <Rathisponge> I didnt enjoy the effect of the circle panning out, almost like a camera being snapped around 2:08
21:42 <NerdStrudel> didn't seem to..
21:43 <orwell> It's over used, but I rather like that
21:43 <quadir> well I assume everyone noticed the constant camera shutter flashing?
21:43 <orwell> I wish he had done something else for all the small beats
21:43 <quadir> I didn't like it, but it didn't detract too much
21:43 <NerdStrudel> you mean trhe black circles?
21:43 <NerdStrudel> or whatever?
21:43 <orwell> that plate bit was a nice job
21:43 <quadir> NerdStrudel: yeah
21:43 <NerdStrudel> yah I kinda both liked and didn't like it
21:44 <NerdStrudel> the plate smashsing.. was indeed good
21:44 <NerdStrudel> it was like
21:44 <NerdStrudel> Female cat: ZOMG YER GAY!?!?!?!?
21:44 <NerdStrudel> and stuffz
21:44 <quadir> orwell: he references it for a little while too, reshowing parts of it 2:18 shows the tv scrolling used well
21:44 <eclipse> i liked that part too
21:44 <NerdStrudel> that part was decent
21:45 <quadir> NerdStrudel: you realize you were the first, and only one talking about this vid being yaoi right? nobody else cares.
21:45 <NerdStrudel> I know
21:45 <NerdStrudel> I'm just saying.. that that was part of the vid
21:45 <quadir> you're STILL talking about it
21:45 <NerdStrudel> centered around the plate drop
21:45 <NerdStrudel> or whatever
21:45 <orwell> around 3:20-26 or so, when you've got the fire shown in b/w and then later in color, I don't really get that, the music doesn't support a color addition, or else there should have been colored fire everywhere
21:45 <NerdStrudel> Like she walked in on 'em or whatever
21:45 -!- Rathisponge has quit [Ping timeout]
21:45 <orwell> I don't mind the b/w, but don't be afraid to liven it up a bit with SOME color
21:46 <NerdStrudel> indeed
21:46 <orwell> a touch here and there, or just faded out color
21:46 <PaperIsland> I think if he used color he would have had to rethink the whole video
21:46 <PaperIsland> otherwise there's no reason to have it be so slow paced up until the change
21:46 <Sub0> Oh! I get it now! Empire = Rome Gay = Romans
21:47 <orwell> I'm not saying full use of color, just in spots, like with the fire, not in the entire b/w section
21:47 <quadir> Sub0: I like my explanation better
21:47 -!- Rathisponge has joined #amv-review
21:47 <orwell> you want a gay empire? check out the spartan one
21:47 <quadir> orwell: you're right that the colour use didn't make sense until the last part of the video
21:47 <NerdStrudel> quadir: What was your explanation?
21:47 <orwell> Romans had little homosexuality compared to the greeks
21:48 <orwell> 300 is wrong in it's athenian boy lovers, the spartans would shun their lives for young boys for warrior training
21:48 <orwell> or the thebians
21:48 <Rathisponge> It is interesting how he creates motion from still frames at around 3:54
21:48 <PaperIsland> I know this will be a minority opinion, but I actually wanted it to go slower in the beginning
21:48 <PaperIsland> (sorry about the bold)
21:48 <orwell> a whole warrior culture of homosexuality
21:48 <orwell> anyways
21:48 <PaperIsland> Is the main character supposed to be a warrior?
21:48 <Rathisponge> I could see what you mean PaperIsland, the song doesnt move any faster in the beginning
21:48 <orwell> the boy or the guy?
21:48 <NerdStrudel> ..
21:49 <PaperIsland> Either...
21:49 <PaperIsland> I don't know anything about this series
21:49 <orwell> eh, it's hard to say the main character in this, there's only 3
21:49 <DriftRoot> In the series the guy is the fighter
21:49 <quadir> NerdStrudel: talking about the empire being a metaphore for the relationship
21:49 <DriftRoot> The boy doesn't want to fight at all..he abhors violence
21:49 <NerdStrudel> i see
21:50 <PaperIsland> Does he try to commit suicide, or was that just invented by the video?
21:50 <DriftRoot> I don't remember...the ending was very confuzzled...there's a lot of self-inflicted hurt going on all around.
21:51 <Rathisponge> In the beginning around 00:47 when he uses the camera shutter to match up with the music, it doesnt seem to fit well
21:52 <DriftRoot> The guy...the figheter...in the series it is suggested he gets off on pain.
21:52 <DriftRoot> That he enjoys destruction...that his love causes destruction.
21:52 <DriftRoot> I guess you could say he's not happy in love unless he's being hurt.
21:54 <Sub0> indeed
21:54 <PaperIsland> Do you think that it doesn't fit the music or the point of the video?
21:54 <DriftRoot> I haven't watched the video so I can't answer that right now
21:55 <DriftRoot> It makes sense though; if the editor is going for a destructive theme.
21:56 <DriftRoot> Makes a lot of sense. In the series you're always expecting everything to fall apart even though you don't want to watch it happen.
21:56 <Rathisponge> at 3:07 the effect used for the noise the guitar is making is very well done
21:56 <PaperIsland> So why use this elaborate metaphor of a relationship being like an empire when there are so many songs just about relationships themselves? Does anyone feel it adds something?
21:57 <DriftRoot> empires get too big and collapse?
21:57 <DriftRoot> .....I need to watch this video...
21:57 <Rathisponge> I could understand the metaphor of the empire and a relationship
21:57 <orwell> I don't, maybe the lyrics clarify it, or the vid profile, but right off the bat? I just don't get it.
21:58 <orwell> Unless your ass conquering
21:58 <Rathisponge> Why he may have used it, the only reason I can think of is to match the song lyrics
21:58 <PaperIsland> So why choose a song with such a stretched concept?
21:58 <Rathisponge> I believe someone mentioned that earlier
21:58 <PaperIsland> Because I honestly wouldn't have noticed anything about an empire if I watched the video without sound
21:59 <DriftRoot> The editor doesn't give his reason in the Info?
21:59 <PaperIsland> (and without the titles of course..)
22:00 <Rathisponge> yah, I think the mood and flow were matched but not the actual lyrics
22:01 <DriftRoot> The editor is kind of vague on his own video "Paranoid Android is a very complex song. According to the band, it was actually made of three separate songs (as you can clearly hear), so it doesn't have any "real meaning"."
22:01 <Sub0> I'm not sure if I understood even the actual lyrics /is very simple -_-
22:01 <NerdStrudel> ...I couldn't understand the lkyridcs so..
22:01 <NerdStrudel> lyrics*
22:02 <NerdStrudel> MMK
22:02 <Sub0> very astute
22:02 <PaperIsland> Well, I think the song paranoid android has clear meaning...
22:02 * DriftRoot will revisit [this video] eventually because she's insanely curious

[quadir]

It was really great to see some new blood around tonight, several new people dropped by, even if just to listen in.

If you've been glancing at the thread, I really encourage you to drop by, even if just to around as it happens live.

As always, please use the thread to continue discussing the video if you want, or op it, or both!

During the week we announce runnerup vids from that week, so be sure to check out the channel for more laid back discussions and beta videos.

[NS]

This was indeed a great video. And it wasn't Heavy on yaoi for any skiddish minds. It's REALLY worth checking out.

[The Origonal Head Hunter]

saddened I missed out on most of the discussion, but glad to see this video get some pimping.

[quadir]

If you sometimes miss the posting of these threads, or want to know when a new one goes up as soon as it does, I'm now sending messages through the alerts system.

So if you want to get the link via email instead of digging for it here, add me to your alerts w/ messages enabled.

profile link here

[Otohiko]

Very nice video, wish I knew more of the source!

The editing is top-notch; it did drag on at a certain point as me and G_Q mentioned, but otherwise the effort that was probably involved here certainly justifies it

[CrackTheSky]

This AMV is outstanding

[Emong]

Woa.. Now, THIS wasn't expected And I couldn't be any happier~!

Thanks guys, for the discussion and the comments. This really made my day

Yes, lots of effort involved here. And lots and lots of pre-planning.. I'm veeery happy the story-line is getting much comments, some of them being reeeally close~ And I've gotten lots and lots of good advice. Thanks!

Oh, and:

21:40 <PaperIsland> wait, is the creator a she or a he?

Yeah, I'm a he.. A straight one, I suppose.

[DriftRoot]

Hey Emong, I'm downloading your vid right now. I only have dial-up at home so I wasn't able to participate last night 100%. I'll op it when I've seen it.

And it just so happens Loveless is coming up on my Netflix cue this week. Perfect timing.