AMV Review #21: BurningLeaves's Forgotten Memories

[quadir]

The concept: free op the chosen amv, then video discussion in irc
Where: #amv-review irc.zirc.org (web client)
When: Every Monday, 20:30 EDT (8:30pm)
After: free-for-all video-related chat the rest of the week

This week's video:
Mandi (BurningLeaves) - 2007 - Forgotten Memories
Category: Sentimental
Anime: Elfen Lied [Spoilers]
Song: Danny Elfman - The Ice Dance
Tags: [Mild Nudity]
Note: This anime itself is usually incredibly violent and gory (not the video though)

Bonus Video:
(Kamoc) - 2003 - music fan
Category: Comedy
Anime: Silent Hill 2
Song: Wiseguys - Start the Commotion

We want video suggestions, pm me or email quadir@animemusicvideos.org don't post em in the thread.

If you want to beta your video, or watch & comment on betas, lurk moar in #amv-review during the week.

Archive:
2007 July 020-30, 019-23, 018-16, 017-09, 016-02
June 015-25, 014-18, 013-11, 012-04, May 011-28, 010-21, 009-14, 008-07
April 007-30, 006-23, 005-16, 004-09, 003-02, March 002-26, 001-19

[quadir]

IRC Participants: `Eclipse (Blake Stevens), G_Q (GloryQuestor - John Wendel), Minion, ngsilver (Nathan), Orwell, Otohiko, purplepolecat (James Dury), quadir (Olivier Beaton)

20:32 <quadir> Video: Mandi (BurningLeaves) - 2007 - Forgotten Memories
20:32 <quadir> Link:
20:32 <quadir> Category: Sentimental
20:32 <quadir> Anime: Elfen Lied [Spoilers]
20:32 <quadir> Song: Danny Elfman - The Ice Dance
20:32 <quadir> Tags: [Mild nudity]
20:42 <polecat> i has watched it !
20:43 <Otohiko> the tag should be more like
20:43 <Otohiko> mild dressedness
20:43 <Otohiko> they're naked for a rather large fraction of the video, haha
20:44 <quadir> lots of naked backs and shoulders
20:44 <Otohiko> of course, it's LOCAL nudity
20:44 * ngsilver is not impresed by the nudity
20:45 <Otohiko> you wouldn't be
20:45 <Otohiko> hehe
20:45 <orwell> hmm
21:11 <quadir> so what did people think of the first too hot for the org anime video?
21:11 <quadir> (first for the review I guess)
21:11 <G_Q> Not so hot -_-;
21:11 <ngsilver> wait
21:11 <ngsilver> that was too hot?
21:12 <Otohiko> yikes
21:12 <Otohiko> I gotta get off for a bit
21:12 <quadir> no
21:12 <quadir> but the anime is
21:12 <quadir> in general
21:12 <ngsilver> ah, tru
21:12 <Otohiko> in brief before I go (I'll probably be back in a bit)
21:12 <Otohiko> I think the idea of something athmospheric like that is decent, but the execution...
21:13 <G_Q> I agree with Oto. :(
21:13 <ngsilver> agree
21:13 <Otohiko> really needed a different approach on most counts
21:13 <G_Q> Once I read the editor was going more for "mood" than for "synch", I was groaning on the inside.
21:13 <ngsilver> the horrible quality video aside...
21:13 <Otohiko> again, too bad because I would usually like a video like this based on the combo
21:14 <G_Q> I thought the theme was very good.
21:14 <ngsilver> i thought the idea would have worked had there not been so many fast cuts, or orphaned frames, and hard cuts
21:15 <ngsilver> the hard cuts just don't fit
21:15 <G_Q> This is only the second time I gave a low score for effort.
21:16 <G_Q> I mean, there was just so much that could have been done with more work. :(
21:16 <quadir> really? I dunno I didn't look at cut types and more at the scene selection
21:16 <G_Q> The cuts really stood out.
21:16 <quadir> not having seen the anime, I was really putting the story together based on what he chose
21:16 <ngsilver> i couldn't get to the scenes as much, at least when the hard cuts came in... it distracted me
21:16 <Otohiko> agreed on the cuts
21:16 <ngsilver> I've never seen the series myself
21:16 <quadir> and even in previous reviews one thing that has come down is how many people try to do the 'flashback' and really really fail
21:17 <G_Q> One particular scene has the boy closing his eyes in one frame and then freeze.
21:17 <Otohiko> that wasn't what I'd expect with this sort of music
21:17 <Otohiko> it was basically begging for long slow fades
21:17 <G_Q> Yeah.
21:17 <ngsilver> my thoughts exactly
21:17 <quadir> but I really felt this video did it right, instead of showing the future, then going back then future again, he kept time linear, but we still very much felt like were seeing memories of the past first
21:17 <G_Q> This isn't The Prestige >_<
21:19 <ngsilver> I don't thing the 'flashback' section around 0:38 wored well. the B&W seemed to just be there as an effect and meant nothing
21:20 -!- Otohiko is now known as Oto|brb
21:20 <G_Q> They used a rather bad filter for that, also.
21:20 <polecat> I loved the "interpretive dance" bit at the beginning
21:20 <ngsilver> well, the dog clip really turned out ugly
21:20 <G_Q> If they used WMM, you almost have to use Sepia.
21:21 <G_Q> Conveys a better flashback/past term feeling.
21:21 <polecat> Yeah, dog clip was like "here's a dog OOPS he got kicked bye"
21:22 <G_Q> It seems that the editor wanted to emphasize the "fan" attributes and cut out the violence.
21:22 <G_Q> Which makes sense for a video like this, but I've already seen it done better in other vids based on Elfen Lied
21:22 <quadir> the vid quality was definitely lacking
21:22 <G_Q> It's WMV
21:23 <ngsilver> there were some spots that were bad even for WMV
21:23 <G_Q> Unless you have the right sourcing, WMV video output seems to mostly turn out bad -_-;
21:23 <polecat> So, what about the cheesy flash effects ?
21:23 <quadir> I ignored em?
21:23 <orwell> bah family
21:23 <quadir> especially the cymbol one
21:24 <orwell> still no op in heh
21:24 <G_Q> The flash at the kiss worked.
21:24 <quadir> still think it's better without it
21:24 <G_Q> I saw that moment, and said "yes, this is how it should have been"
21:24 <quadir> felt like a snap-to grid
21:25 <quadir> the timing works just as well without the flash
21:26 <polecat> This editor has done 16 AMVs.
21:27 <quadir> I rarely think of amount of work as an indication of visual quality
21:27 <polecat> ...since this April
21:27 <orwell> Good qualities about this amv: It ends
21:27 <G_Q> 4 AMVs a month?
21:27 <quadir> well then this was pretty high quality concept and execution then
21:27 <quadir> orwell: replacing godix for the week eh?
21:27 <G_Q> Amen, orwell, Amen.
21:27 <quadir> one a week w/ no custom effects?
21:27 <G_Q> -_-;
21:28 <quadir> seems doable if you don't do your homework
21:28 <ngsilver> it may end, but on that note, no audio fade, at the beginning or end....
21:28 <ngsilver> <pet peeve
21:28 <G_Q> I did 16 vids in 5 months.
21:28 <quadir> the flashlight effect was decent though
21:28 <Eclipse> wow
21:28 <quadir> credit wise it keeps it in
21:28 * `Eclipse did 2 amvs in one month =/
21:29 <G_Q> My 16th was better than this one, imho. -_-;
21:29 <orwell> I can't think of a single effect I liked in this video
21:29 <orwell> nor editing or anything
21:29 <ngsilver> i like the song
21:29 <ngsilver> ......
21:29 <Eclipse> G_Q: lawl
21:29 <ngsilver> thats about it
21:29 <G_Q> Eclipse: Have you seen it?
21:29 <orwell> eh, the music is... maybe I'd like it if it had a good video to go with it
21:29 <polecat> I liked the video overall, but there were a lot of noob mistakes
21:29 <orwell> hell
21:30 <Eclipse> G_Q: Is it Better Days?
21:30 <G_Q> lol, no.
21:30 <orwell> 20,000 leagues under the crapper
21:30 <G_Q> Better days is my 54th video.
21:30 <G_Q> >_>
21:30 <quadir> so final thoughts before our 2nd ever member-submitted bonus vid?
21:30 <Eclipse> i've seen that
21:30 <Eclipse> i thought it was okay =/ though it was slow at times
21:30 <minion> late as hell but getting it anyways
21:30 <Eclipse> todd =O
21:30 <ngsilver> it would have been good... if it wasn't for the editing and quality
21:31 <Fall_Child42> what genre of video is this?
21:31 <orwell> eh, I don't think the anime has enough love in it to support this type of video
21:31 <orwell> suck
21:31 <orwell> er
21:31 <orwell> romance
21:31 <ngsilver> sentimental?
21:31 <quadir> in the end I liked the vid, especially since I see so few elfen videos I can stand. song choice I thought could of been better for instrumental, I've actually heard it a lot in amvs now
21:31 <G_Q> I thought that it could have been a lot better if the editor did work for both synch and mood.
21:31 <Eclipse> G_Q: I was talking about your video earlier lol
21:32 <quadir> Fall_Child42: it's a elfen lied instrumental sentimental
21:32 <polecat> quadir, was this video submitted or did you choose it ?
21:32 <G_Q> Eclipse: I know. I'm responding to quadir >_>
21:32 <quadir> polecat: submitted
21:32 <Eclipse> oh mah bad
21:32 <Eclipse> =/
21:32 <quadir> but we chose it
21:32 <quadir> we always chose the video from a list
21:32 <quadir> of submitted + videos we find ourselves
21:33 <minion> the aspect ratio on this video. elfen lied is 16:9 if nobody has mentioned yet
21:33 <minion> did he crop it? cause it doesn't actually look squished in
21:34 <orwell> what's the aspect ratio on this video? I'm not noticing much wrong with it
21:34 <minion> this video is 4:3
21:34 <minion> elfen lied is 16:9
21:35 <minion> it was alright until the kiss IMO. a pretty shallow description of elfen lied though. 3/5
21:36 <godix> So did I miss anything good?
21:36 <ngsilver> no
21:37 <minion> not good. just alright and not a fucking failure
21:37 <minion> decent.
21:37 <minion> presentable.
21:37 <minion> nothing rememberable
21:40 <Otohiko> I thinkt there were ways that video could've been good, and was good on some counts, but...
21:41 <Otohiko> I think the lesson here is, going for athmosphere and using an interesting enough combination doesn't really excuse serious editing and visual problems
21:41 <quadir> I liked this week's vid, it's a hard sell, but that's why it's a gutsy video, "you couldn't possibly make that kind of video with that anime!"
21:41 <Otohiko> quadir: yes, I mean...
21:41 <Otohiko> I'm not totally negative
21:41 <quadir> sure it's not perfect, but I think the editor demonstrated it can be done, and with their skill level, did a decent job of it
21:41 <Otohiko> it's just really an under-par effort
21:41 <Otohiko> it could've been much better of course
21:41 <Otohiko> otherwise for this kind of video with this kind of anime...
21:42 <Otohiko> AMV4000 had a pretty decent romance video for that
21:42 <orwell> for Elfen lied?
21:42 <quadir> I mean at a certain point you say "yeah well if koop had made it..." or s/koop/kaldwell/$ or whatever
21:42 <ngsilver> quadir: it's good to know that there have been problems... I don't get informed usually and I think all is well with the site
21:42 <quadir> but people's editing skills if their not actively striving to improve and just make more videos to matchups they like, don't go up that fast
21:42 <orwell> screw koop
21:42 <orwell> if a good editor had made it would be good
21:42 <Otohiko> yea, well
21:43 <ngsilver> oto: you talking about the one for the sailor moon mep?
21:43 <orwell> names don't mean shit
21:43 <Otohiko> ngsilver: yep
21:43 <ngsilver> orwel: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=134246
21:43 <Otohiko> quadir: what I said to Orwell just earlier - I think it's actually good that AMV review does more critical stuff of relatively rough videos
21:43 <Otohiko> good way to help the editor improve a little
21:43 <godix> I haven't, and won't, see this video but one thing I have noticed that is a major failing of almost EVERY elfin lied video to date, they're too selective. They either focus on the violence and ignore the story/sentimental parts or they do the reverse. Very very few try to bring in all elements of the show
21:43 <Otohiko> good way to identify what works and what doesn't
21:44 <quadir> or in some ways, that people actually care about this stuff
21:44 <Otohiko> godix: is that surprising though?
21:44 <orwell> I'm not against doing rough videos, I just have a hell of a time finding a rough video that I enjoy enough to criticize instead of just saying it sucks
21:44 <Otohiko> kinda hard to combine all of it and make sense
21:44 <Otohiko> that's why Elfen Lied is popular, too, everyone's going "omg you cant believe this combination! cute girls + extreme violence"
21:44 <godix> No. It's be hard to bring in both elements. But it is a major drawback in my opinion. If you want to cover the series, then cover the fucking series. Don't cherry pick certain parts and ignore everything else.
21:44 <orwell> I disagree
21:45 * orwell goes off to start and fail another amv
21:45 <godix> In most cases of couse, some videos that don't follow the series are fine but there the editor is specifically setting out to not follow the series. I'm refering to people who meant to reflect on the show.
21:45 <Otohiko> again, I like how the editor went for the non-obvious
21:45 <Otohiko> I'm all for that and my op was encouraging
21:45 <orwell> talent?
21:45 <Otohiko> just a lot of it could've been done right-er
21:46 <Otohiko> Just hope the editor doesn't get discouraged
21:46 <quadir> Otohiko: I don't think people do
21:47 <quadir> Otohiko: at worse I think people's reaction to the org is 'screw you I'm going back to youtube"
21:47 <quadir> I imagine it's like being a film director, no matter how many newspapers you buy out, the amount of negetive trash talking about your film will greatly outweight the positive
21:47 <orwell> I disagree
21:48 <orwell> people seem to think star wars 3 wasn't all that bad
21:48 <orwell> but look at it
21:48 <Eclipse> episode 3?
21:48 <Eclipse> it was pretty good. better than the rest of the new ones
21:48 <orwell> see

[BurningLeaves]

WOW im really astonished... I dont know why you picked mine but im really honored that all you pros sat around and discussed my little video thank you so much my videos arent really up to par with the whole IRC amv review thing (from what iv seen of the previous choices) so thank you all for giving me constructive criticism and not completely bashing it. I saved this convo and read all your ops very carefully and I will definitely take all your advice into consideration for my next vid.

And as for

Just hope the editor doesn't get discouraged

Absolutely not, I really appreciate all the time you guys took out to give me these tips. Thank you all so much

oh... Episode 3 hands down better then 1 & 2... But Trek is better then all combined

[CrackTheSky]

WOW im really astonished... I dont know why you picked mine but im really honored that all you pros sat around and discussed my little video thank you so much my videos arent really up to par with the whole IRC amv review thing (from what iv seen of the previous choices)

Aw, don't be so hard on yourself. I think you've got a lot of potential in you, so far you've done some pretty cool things (I really liked this video, wish I'd been in IRC to say so) and I always look forward to your next release. This video had a lot of technical flaws, but the concept was solid and the video still ended up being pretty emotional for me, so I'm waiting for you to REALLY break out and wow me in the future

[Bote]

WOW im really astonished... I dont know why you picked mine but im really honored that all you pros sat around and discussed my little video

Who says they're pros? They're just a bunch of old men having nothing better to do than make AMV's.

[NS]

When I'm there it's not. It's like. A bunch of seasoned people and one noob who thinks he knows everything =O

[godix]

WOW im really astonished... I dont know why you picked mine but im really honored that all you pros sat around and discussed my little video

Who says they're pros? They're just a bunch of old men having nothing better to do than make AMV's.

I can't decide if I agree with you or want to hurt you....

[quadir]

amv review tonight, lurkers welcome!

[NS]

LURRRRKKKKK