Popular (kare kano)

[Kitsuner]

tl;dr

So is this argument to determine who sucks more or what?

[Uanime5]

How can you say the "song was vague"? It was pretty darn clear, and some of your editing choices did show you were aware of the specificity. The best example is when you used "you'll be good at sports." Much like myself, you chose a scene of "glenda/miyzawa" shooting hoops. This shows you had, at least at some point in the video, an idea that there were times at which lip synch was not appropriate.

By vague I mean its unclear what category of clip should be used. For example the line "you'll be good at sports" refers to a sports scene, but lines such as "you'll be popular" is more open to interpetation and could be demonstrated by a scene where the character is given a makeover to make them look prettier or by using a scene where the character is slightly more popular; while the line 'la, la, la, la' could be represented by almost anything (lip-sync, an effect, a repetative action).

KareKano is a 26 episode series. I find it hard to believe you could not find appropriate "action" scenes for times the song demanded such scenes. After all, I only have the first four disks of Revolutionary Girl Utena, and I barely used the last two at all.

Just because a series is long doesn't mean it will have all the clips you want. A lot of action scenes involving being popular were hard to find because Yukino stops trying to be popular early on and stops boasting about how great she is, while Maho is never popular in the same way.

As for trying to lip synch simply because there is lip flap is the exact opposite of what you should have been doing. If that specific part of the song called for a demonstrative "action" scene, then just forcing lip synch onto lip flap instead because lip flap happens to be there is silly. That's when you get a different scene, one that is both demonstrative and one without lip flap!

That is good advice but it can be difficult to find a scene that the viewer will consider to demonstrate part of the song (there aren't any obvious scenes where Yukino analyses Maho). I find that lip-sync can be used to smooth over parts where you don't have an appropriate scene. Also I sometimes use lip-sync to cover lip flap because if I completely removed the lip flap the characters would be standing motionless for the whole scene.

I'm not sure that you can really decide the flow of the song, no matter how much you may wish it to have the three sections you "like." My opinion, and I hazard to say reality, is that the song has distinctive parts, but that the parts are returned to in a pattern. Your editing must also follow the aural as well as lyrical pattern, which does clearly designate what should and should not be lip synched, and vice versa, what should and should not be action synched.

I admit, I'm being awfully harsh on you in comparison to others, but that's because our general concepts were the same. No one else can be as hard on you as I can. I know exactly what it is like to listen to that song a million times trying to decide when and where those designations I mention take place. And when you realize it took nearly a year to complete my video, you have got to believe I spent an awful lot of time analyzing the ebb and flow of the aural and lyrical synchs in Popular. Not to mention hella time listening to it over and over and over and over at work.

You chose an appropriate series and did so because the characters are appropriate to a degree. But I really feel you failed to execute the concept adequately, and I feel no guilt telling you so, having executed the same concept. The fact is, you went against the flow of the song, and therefore you have action scenes that seem random, lip synch that seems entirely out of place, and sloppy editing, where you allow cuts to spill over the natural transition in either the instrumentation or the lyrics.

Don't worry about being critical, I learn how to improve my AMVs through criticism. Though some examples would be appreciated.

And blaming the song for your own editing choices, especially when I am here to rebutt you is... well.... really, really weak.

Well some songs are harder to make an AMV out of than others, but since no one forced me to use this song I can't really blame it.

[Ileia]

I didn't mind that it had quite a bit of lip-synch. The facial expressions and scenes used for the lip-synch were well-placed and appropriate. I thought that the scenes flowed smoothly and were well-chosen. And mind you, it's obviously not perfect (there aren't many videos that are) but you did a good job, I'd say it's the best of your videos that I've seen. (I haven't seen that many, but I've seen enough >_>) It just goes to show you that a song can work with a variety of anime. Keep it up.


and as for Kionon...

I didn't feel the song was built for a lip sync throughout. Unlike stage, where the actresses can demonstrate what they're singing about, the source material from an anime requires a switch off between "narration," which is lip synched, and "action," which is not. There simply isn't enough lyrical synch scenes with mouth movement to allow for a coherent lyrical synch when the entire video is lip synched.

Maybe this is arrogance, maybe it's just years of slow steady work (almost an entire year on Popularity alone), but I can definitely say this video would have been a lot better had followed the same formula that I did: mixing narration and action, instead of focusing on lip synch where it doesn't fit.

It's not for you to decide how someone else edits a video. No two people will edit exactly the same. And if it HAD followed the same formula as yours, you'd be complaining about that. So, I'm calling it arrogance.

[JaddziaDax]

my husband said it was cute O.O
and i think i left you a qc O.o

[Kionon]

By vague I mean its unclear what category of clip should be used. For example the line "you'll be good at sports" refers to a sports scene, but lines such as "you'll be popular" is more open to interpetation and could be demonstrated by a scene where the character is given a makeover to make them look prettier or by using a scene where the character is slightly more popular; while the line 'la, la, la, la' could be represented by almost anything (lip-sync, an effect, a repetative action).

Aural synch is important during those lyrics that are, as you say, unclear. Then you go with aural, and yes it could be represented by a number of editing choices, but the editing choice to synch aurally should be clear enough. I don't disagree with you; I just felt you often ignored the aural, hence why you had scenes that seemed random or spilled over. As a whole, the song was not random. Patterns, especially aural ones (music), cannot be vague, or else they wouldn't be patterns.

Just because a series is long doesn't mean it will have all the clips you want. A lot of action scenes involving being popular were hard to find because Yukino stops trying to be popular early on and stops boasting about how great she is, while Maho is never popular in the same way.

I'm not arguing that it wasn't difficult, I just argue your claim it was impossible, or too much work for you to do. I feel Kare Kano was a good choice. I feel the characters fit. I feel your concept here was excellent, and the reason why you chose the series you did (or should have) was because the series has enough scenes (more than enough in my obviously not so humble opinion) to support the flow of the song. I realize it may seem to be sandwiched between negatives here, but the fact you made a very good decision on series and characters shows that you certainly weren't trying to just slap something together, and for that you should be applauded. That is, by the way, a real and sincere complement.

That is good advice but it can be difficult to find a scene that the viewer will consider to demonstrate part of the song (there aren't any obvious scenes where Yukino analyses Maho). I find that lip-sync can be used to smooth over parts where you don't have an appropriate scene. Also I sometimes use lip-sync to cover lip flap because if I completely removed the lip flap the characters would be standing motionless for the whole scene.

Now, see, this is where I think I have the most problem. I guess this is where my editing philosophy runs head first right up against yours. And this probably explains why the video just looked entirely "off" to me. First, committment to a video means you will do your best to find those scenes, even if it takes months or years, and if you felt the series lacked those scenes, then perhaps it wasn't the best choice. Second, I feel Kare Kano did have those scenes. I believe I remember them. That's why I liked your series choice, because it was appropriate.

As for using lip synch to "smooth over" anything, again, our philosophies greatly, greatly differ here. After all, one could argue that you could concievably lip synch the entire song, it is, after all, a musical. However, imagine how visually barren such a video would be. Now think of scegments that are aurally rich with instrumentation, and instead you lip synch those segments. It will look equally barren. Where the aural dominates, synch with any of the fine editing choices you mentioned above, but make sure your scene choices under these effects, transitions, etc are coherent.

If you think "Well, I guess I could lip synch this, since I freeze-framed it and it looked boring" then that scene is not the right scene. Find another one with more movement.

Don't worry about being critical, I learn how to improve my AMVs through criticism. Though some examples would be appreciated.

Well, this is certainly not passionaless or biasless critique, and I've admitted that from the forefront. As for giving you examples, tell you what, when I get back from work tonight, I will write you a full blown opinion. Ask those who have recieved such an op from me, and you'll find out I am very detailed oriented. I will be more than happy to go second by second explaining all of my feelings and issues with it.

Well some songs are harder to make an AMV out of than others, but since no one forced me to use this song I can't really blame it.

Okay, as long as we're clear on that. It seemed incredulous that you would be suggesting otherwise, and I was pretty shocked by it.

It's not for you to decide how someone else edits a video. No two people will edit exactly the same. And if it HAD followed the same formula as yours, you'd be complaining about that. So, I'm calling it arrogance.

I admitted upfront it could be. This one stirred my emotional pot and put my defense shields up, I admit.

I feel the song offers aural and lyrical guide posts, and therefore while how one represents the flow may be different (Uanime5 said this as well), the flow should be respected. I feel the flow was not adequately followed.

If the video had followed the same formula, I would indeed be complaining about it. This is true, and I don't deny it. But I would be doing so in #amv, and everyone would have known it was entirely because I would be upset that people in general, and Uanime5 in specific, are not as passionate about making sure a concept has not already been done. And, I'll be honest, I am upset about that, and I have mentioned it in #amv in regards to this video. I think everyone knows by now that whenever I start a new idea, I will search the org for the use of the same song, download all the entries under that song, and watch them all to make sure my video is original enough. If it isn't; I abandon the video. It's part of my personal honor code, and I understand not everyone has the same system of ethics. However, by virtue of that, it means my complaints in #amv (to people I consider my peers, friends, not to mention the best of the best in editing) is a steam release. It should not go out to the general public, and it certainly never would have been released to the creator under normal circumstances, since it as issue on my side and not theirs. I would request people do it to be polite, but I cannot force my moral values on others, even when I am unfraid of telling them what those values are.

However, what I have written here, and above, and what I intend to write in the opinion is actual critique. I see issues with all the types of synch, and I believe I am able to point to concrete examples of where synch was not fully utilized, and since Uanime5 requested specific examples, I have promised to do so.

My goal was not to start a fight or drama with Uanime5, and it does not appears Uanime5 believes I have done so. And I appreciate it, it shows that Uanime5 is a stand up editor who believes that what I have to say will be beneficial. I firmly believe at this point that Popular is tatooed on the inside of my brain, and as such, gives me academic credibility and epistemic justification to critique as I do.

I hope that isn't arrogance, but I won't argue that it may be.

[Knowname]

DOH!

Must... not... op... in... anouncements forum....

But I must join in in the frucus -_-

lol well. I really like how this really sums up the anime's storyline as well... but as for the lipping, sorry to say, but Kionon's right. It coulda' used a little more work... or, in the fashion of 'less is more', a little 'LESS' work (but more work as you'd have to deal with the lip flap)... possibly a wider view of available scenes. I DO appreciate the people that take their time releaseing videos trying to make it the best possible.

All in all though, don't listen to me, it was really good -_- but this absoluteley owns it though lol.

[Uanime5]

All in all though, don't listen to me, it was really good -_- but this absoluteley owns it though lol.

This is a different song from the same musical. Though I did like it.