We need a leader

[Flint the Dwarf]

1997? 2000? Buh HAhA! Good one. I mean, if '97 is classic, than I'm one of the classic AMVers, and...

It's true, though. Prior to '97 is ancient. It goes by the level of technology.

[trythil]

1997? 2000? Buh HAhA! Good one. I mean, if '97 is classic, than I'm one of the classic AMVers, and...

It's true, though. Prior to '97 is ancient. It goes by the level of technology.

Back in 1997, we only had PENTIUM IIs!! OMG!! (Ponies!!!)

I mean, that's like, old, man.

[MCWagner]

Allow me to summarize:

But those people will usually avoid threads like this one. A casual hobbyist has no place telling professionals to calm down and stop taking themselves and their work so seriously. There are a lot of people posting in this thread who take their work very seriously, dead serious, as if they were creating amvs to change the world rather than to pass the time. I can't see through their eyes, so I can't enter into the discussion. They're looking for a video that will unite and amaze the community, all the while they're criticizing the community for being made up of people incapable of appreciating greatness when they see it. It seems like a lost cause to me.

1) People who are very interested in a hobby should not discuss the relative merits of popular entries, because doing so might result in hurt feelings. I will support my point with sarcasm.

Why try to lead a community when what you really want is to destroy the community? They want to build up a new commuity where great works of art are instantly recognized, thus encouraging new groundbreaking works of art because the new community won't accept anything less. With a goal like that in mind, it seems redundant to try and argue the need with members of the old unacceptable community. If their opinions had any weight, the discussion itself wouldn't be necessary because the members would already be focused on creating the next best thing this thread is calling for.

2) Moreover, people who say "I haven't really been impressed by any recent works, I wonder why?" are big meanies who actually hate the hobby, despite the fact they're trying to foster discussion on the issue.

I think it really comes down to the community. The next best thing, as defined by the artists, won't be a video the amv community can rally behind. It'll be a video the artists can rally behind. No matter how many serious people post in this thread, that won't change the fact that the amv community itself is comprised mostly of hobbyists interested in entertainment, whether it's entertaining themselves or the faceless masses.

3) The people who make AMVs because they enjoy AMVs are incapable of appreciating "high minded art" or "new ideas." "Artists" trying to "do something exciting and new" or taking a lot of time to get a vid "just right" don't actually enjoy making AMVs.

If the artists admit that, they have no choice but to compromise themselves and make a great work of art that will be down-to-earth enough to appeal to the hobbyists. Once they compromise themselves, the next great thing won't be so great anymore because it'll be tainted just enough to appeal to the unwashed masses, like an artist doing illustrations for a travel magazine. It seems self destructive for them to push themselves to make something the community will like enough to rally behind. Because they already know what videos the community rallies behind and those are the videos they're degrading in this thread.

4) There are two groups of makers: Snotty "high minded artists" who want to look down on everyone else, and the "true fans" who are good and virtuous and true because they're having fun. These two groups should neither crossover, intermix, nor breed.

There are too many responses in this thread from people who want the next best thing but are unable to make it themselves. It's depressing and painful, because they clearly have a strong need to find some genius. I don't think he'll step forward no matter how long this thread gets. A better approach to finding him would be to start a search for ground breaking videos, with the people searching being the ones capable of recognizing hidden gems. Once the savior is found, then you can make a thread begging him to create the next great thing and encouraging others to rally behind his video. If the people posting in this thread were capable of making the next great thing, they wouldn't be posting here. They'd be editing.

5) Great new video ideas or concepts cannot come out of intense discussions or debates about new ideas from previous editors. They must spring, fully-formed, from the forehead of Zeus. Then we may fall down in awe before them. Not before.

I think hobbyists like me don't belong in threads like this because we just don't get it. I'm not an artist. I'm not skilled at editing. I think both are requisites if you want to make the groundbreakingly original and technically perfect next best thing this thread is calling for. Even the feedback junkies won't attempt this next best thing because they know there aren't enough artists in the community to make it worthwhile. They're better off appealing to the faceless masses who join amv communities to see music videos made with anime they like. It's easier to satisfy them, and as long as you're making videos for other people, you might as well aim for the bigger audience.

6) Superior am I, in this realm of AMVs, for I am paramount in my humility and anti-intellectuallism. Ignore what I said before about editing because you enjoy it, tool your work to appeal to the widest possible audience, because "you might as well."

We still have conventions that break editors down into categories according to skill, don't we?

Really? Where?

If you still can't find it in contests like that, then form a mini-community. Handpick editors who have skills and creativity and brainstorm together. With the raw talent gathered together, and so much motivation to make something great, at the very least you'll have more videos that stand out above average. Once you have the videos, it'll be much easier to start a campaign to make the faceless masses appreciate those videos for being artistic, rather than fanservicy top 10 material.

7) Combat your percieved nature of being elitist, by being elitist.

In response to all this, all I can say is that you've ended up being more elitist and divisive than the people you're railing against. You should also read the opening a little more carefully, and you might realize that Beo wasn't ever looking for an individual but for a new idea or approach to inject some new concepts into the hobby.

[MCWagner]

1997? 2000? Buh HAhA! Good one. I mean, if '97 is classic, than I'm one of the classic AMVers, and...

It's true, though. Prior to '97 is ancient. It goes by the level of technology.

Then what are the old linear vids?

[Arigatomina]

You should also read the opening a little more carefully, and you might realize that Beo wasn't ever looking for an individual but for a new idea or approach to inject some new concepts into the hobby.

The title of the thread disputes this. It reads, "We need a leader." Even if he meant a "new video or approach" in the form of an amv, some individual or group must make that amv. That means he's looking for an individual because - like you said - videos don't spring forth without someone behind the screen doing the editing.

My problem isn't with the disputed need for change, it's with the method of arguing that need. There are plenty of supporters posting in this thread, but they're all saying the same thing - "I can't do it, don't look at me, but you're right, we need to find someone who can and will do it for us." My point was to ignore the naysayers, collect the supporters, and go brainstorm away from outside influence. If none of them can do it alone, put them in a room together so they can combine forces. Surely in a collective of like minded individuals they can accomplish something.

I don't see the need for it. I don't think people who don't see the need for it should be posting, because they only contribute negativity and irritate the ones who do see the need for it. I posted because someone asked why people like me hadn't posted yet in over 3 pages. But even if I don't personally see the need for it, I can still argue about the method they're using to get what they're after. They won't get it by wasting time defending themselves. They feel there is a need, they have people posting who also feel there is a need. Grab them and start brainstorming. Then start editing.

What's the point of arguing that we need something great when we can't even settle on which videos are an example of greatness? First you'll have to convince everyone to stand behind at least one video that exemplifies greatness. Then you have to establish how lonely that single video is - to show a lack of similarly great videos. Only then can you prove there's a need for more videos like that one. As long as we can't settle on what is or isn't great, there's no point even attempting to argue the need for a new great video.

This thread works better as a petition. Do you see the need for the next great thing? Join forces with us and let's see what we can do to make something we can rally behind.

[devilmaykickass]

Why whine about videos no one is making you watch? Why complain about how much these highly rated videos suck while not doing anything better to prove you have grounds to say it? And finally, why give a shit about the Top 10 and how other people rate videos to begin with? If you don't agree with it then you don't agree with it and you don't have to care.

[CHAMELEON_D_H]

Tomorrow noon. But what do you need canada for?

I've decided to move my groundbreaking AMV adaptation to top priorety. Expect something by the end of 2006.... this one will get me the VCAs. ALL OF THEM!!!

I was also thinking about the anime coming out in the past few years. and couldn't find many things that had as much "power" as in the old days. something to make your blood boil or your eyes tear. It's been a decade since eva was released and it's still greatly in use. Same for GitS. We need to fing the next decade's classics. Voices of a distant star. If it was only more widely known, some greath things could have been made.

About pushing the thechnical limits. We hav'nt reached MADs yet, and they are far, far ahead.

[Paul Kievits]

This thread might as well be closed now, there are just two sides to this discussion that will never match up. Compair it to music:

*On one side there are the pop-bands who make music for whatever reason: Popularity, to have fun, to entertain the broad masses. These bands are the most well known and have tons of fans.
*On the other side there are people who listen to a lot of underground/experimental crap. They totally resent pop music and the people who listen to it. They are always looking for the new new thing and are probably more dedicated to finding new music than the casual pop-music listener.

The thing is, the pop-audience will probably never hit the underground scene or listen to underground bands unless the bands conform enough to address larger audiences, and the underground crowd will never be fond of pop music, unless the bands try some out of the ordinary stuff which alienates their original fans.

The "I do it to entertain myself/others" belong in group 1, Beo definatley belongs in group 2. While you get each others points you'll never agree, so the discussion is kind of futile.

[Warheart]

So let's say 1997-2000 was the classic age, 2004 the modern and now we are in the postmodern age and the ghost of the avantgarde has died so we don't know what else to do to bring forth something new.

1997? 2000? Buh HAhA! Good one. I mean, if '97 is classic, than I'm one of the classic AMVers, and...

Oh wait, you're serious.

*sigh*

Hey, I actually refered to the .org since I didn't see that much videos older than 1997 on the server. I know there were people that made videos back in the 80s, but actually I didn't that that into account.

[Beowulf]

while not doing anything better to prove you have grounds to say it?

ROFL

People like you have been saying this exact same canned response for years now, and its starting to show its age. You say it to anyone and everyone regaurdless of their "grounds to say it" as you put it. If fucking Da Vinchi would write a book about the death of rennesaunce art you would be right there telling him to get off his ass and prove that his opinion is worth something.

FYI, my opinion is worth something.