Let me in on a secret...How do you make a romance vid?

[TaranT]

After my second jumbo failure on making a romantic AMV, I want to know.

A lot of "romance" AMVs I see generally just have random shots of two characters snuggling against each other. I just -know- there's more to it than this; there has to be some other element that one needs to establish a romantic element.

Can anyone explain it to me? Or better yet, can anyone point me to GOOD romance videos where I could take pointers?

I suppose I've done more romance than any other genre, too, although I probably approach it differently than Arigatomyna does.

A couple of tips: Avoid using children or child-like looking characters unless you're doing parody, fun, or just aiming at the bunny-kissers. Romance between 8-year-olds can not be taken seriously.

For music, stay away from the cheap, teen-bound, angsty, so-called "romance" that infests popular songs; e.g. "I want you, I need you, oh baby, oh baby" (quoted from "Ten Things I Hate About You"). Whatever it is, everybody's heard it a million times. That kind of stuff goes over like warm, watered-down Coke.

Unless...that's what your audience wants.

[bum]

errrr, dont mean to pimp but i reckon thatmy evangelion romance amv is a good take on the gender. ok so its kinda rough around the edges but i was a young anf foolish editor at that time. and i am gona redo it and fix alot of things up for a con thats on in a few months.

and err, thats about it, im too tired to post anything that requires thought right now

[JG]

For me, the secret was having my own situation to relate to

Read more here:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=19479

[Rorschach]

Well, the others here have it more or less right: the main thing to have is a "story" or, more specifically, a theme. The scenes should also line up with the lyrics in the song, even if you have to arrange them in a not-so-linear manner.

Case in point: my popular video "Tetai" set to Standing Still by Jewel. This AMV didn't exactly tell anything like a complete story, but it did deal with each of the girls Kei had to "pass by" to make his marriage with Mizuho successful in Onegai Teacher. Songs that do tell a complete story are rare and often don't work well with any anime, but most contemporary songs do have at least one theme; many have several themes.

The more matching themes a song and anime have, the better the AMV will be. Jewel's song dealt specifically with the theme of being uncertain whether a relationship is working or not, and comparing this success (or possible lack thereof) figuratively with motion, something which fit together especially well with Onegai Teacher's device of having Kei come literally to a stop when his relationships aren't working out.

Another point made here with which I agree: though many contemporary songs focus on love, many are not really all that romantic. This is why a lot of contemporary country songs don't really pass muster for AMV tracks: somehow, I just can't imagine that a song yelling "I like it, I love it, I want some more of it!" is going to charm the girls or put the guys in loving mood. Likewise, I have a hard time imagining any rap song being truly romantic, even if it did somehow avoid using foul language and describing graphic rape and murder.

Rule of thumb: the noisier the song is, the less romantic it is. That rule tends to extend to anything by excessively shrieky or weepy divas, too. (And yes, most of Jewel's songs fall into that category, as do most of Celine Dion's. I just happened to find a few exceptions.)

One final note: a tragic break-up can be just as romantic as a successful relationship if you can find a song that makes the viewer feel sorry for the singer or someone in the song (and by extension, for the characters in your anime). Nothing Compares to You as sung by Sinead O'Connor is a good example of this.

[dwchang]

Hrm...seeing as people seem to like my video (Glory of Love) and have stated it as an example (thanks by the way), perhaps I should chime in. Especially since I have a differeing opinion compared to the majority here.

My first piece of advice is a simple one, watch a lot of romance videos (good and "bad"). You need to do this to realize what it is you wanna do. What you think is "good." This will help you to realize what's "good" and so on (i.e. answer your own question ).

Since I see a lot of my favorite romance videos not being mentions, perhaps this is a good chance to advertise them:

-Transcending Love - people keep talking about story. This video creates it's own original romance story using three separate shows. I was quite surprised no one has listed it in this thread already.
-I'll Stand by You
-In My Arms Again
-My Fading Voice, Your Distant Hear -sadly not uploaded.
-Through Time, Through Space
-A Thousand Miles
-Let Me Save You
-Memories of Love and Conflict

I almost always watch these romance videos prior to making my own. They're wonderful videos and even if you don't like them, you'll at least see what people perceive as "good."

However a disclaimer, I don't at all mean to say you need to do what these people are doing. You should ultimately do what you wanna do, but it's always good to watch things to jump start your own thoughts.

Now onto my own feelings on what makes a good romance video. I see that the most often made comment/advice is story. I don't entirely disagree with this statement, but I also don't totally agree with it. Let me explain:

First off, most of the videos people have listed (Sappy Self-Indulgence, my own, Far and Away, etc.) do not have a coherent and concrete story. As Rosarch clarified, they have a *THEME*. That theme is obviously romantic in nature.

I think SSI is the best example of this. It's easily the most popular romance video on this site (and one of the best), yet contains no story. It's just couples lip-syncing to each other and being lovey-dovey....right?

However, again, they do not follow a traditional story like say point A->point B with conflict sprinkled inbetween.

I know for a fact with my own video that I wasn't telling a story. I was more trying to communicate a feeling. I was trying to communicate the love and devotion two people have for each other. Yes I highlight some of the story elements and things they endure for each other, but ultimately the video is about communicating a feeling. Perhaps people say "story" since I go over some of the elements of the story and yes, there is a resolution, but I guess I have a different definition of story. Let me try and explain:

I guess by using an example, I think "Transcending Love," is the only AMV I listed above that is purely story driven. It has an actual plot. A beginning, conflict and an end. Again, I realize might disagreement with people saying story might be a misconception in terminology.

At the same time, don't get me wrong, a story can help a romance video considerably. My point is that it's not the main thing absolutely necessary. Obviously "Transcending Love" is a grat romance video that focuses on a story.

I also see that some people are making suggestions on music being light and soft. I can see how one could come to this conclusion, but I disagree. Yeah good music is needed for a good romance video, but good music is needed for almost any good video (regardless of genre) right?

Yeah some of the examples I provided above have slower and softer songs (in particular "In My Arms Again"), but others (like "A Thousand Miles" and "Memories of Love and Conflict") have songs that are a bit more dynamic than a traditional lovey-dovey song. My video, to a degree, is not really all that slow either. Yeah it's lovey-dovey and sappy as hell, but it's not slow or soft. The verses are slow and soft, but the chorus is dynamic (and in turn I use dynamic scenes).

So what's the point of this post? Did I just wanna argue that people were "wrong" and then not help you? Nah, I have my own definition of what is key to a good romance video and I'll share it with you now .

It's emotion. Pure and simple. If a video doesn't contain emotions, it's obviously not a good romance video (which relies on...emotions. ). You could have a video with tons of story, a great slow song and it could still be a bad romance video if it doesn't resonate or touch someone's heart.

I guess that sounds ridiculously sappy and ghey (what did you expect from a romance amv creator ), but it's ultimately true. Earlier I talked about the examples people provided and how they lack story. By the same token, what do each of the videos have? Emotion.

Sappy Self-Indulgence may lack a story, but it's got emotions behind it. It's Sappy (:shock:) and a celebration of love. Viewers walk away and feel happy. It instills those emotions on the viewer. That's why it's a good romance video (at least to me).

Now I imagine people could argue that story helps this considerably since by seeing their struggles, we empathize with them and I can agree with that. However, I do not agree that the story portion needs to be the focus. It can be used in conjunction with emotions to ultimately make a good video. Make sense?

I guess I've sorta fallen into a trap since to a degree I'm saying you can't make a good romance video without injecting some sort of emotional content into it...and what if you don't have any emotional attachment to the song or series? Well that's a toughy I guess, but I have a confession to make.

When I made "Glory of Love," I didn't make it "for a girl" or anything sappy like that. I just made it because I thought the idea would work. I guess I'm gonna cop-out here, but I don't know how I injected any sort of emotional content into the video, so uhm...yeah not very helpful here

...actually, now that I think about it...I guess for me, the emtional aspect is that I adore this couple and their relationship and that's what carried the video and ultimately was my emotional connection to it *shrug*. OK maybe I'm reaching? >_>

And if you'll forgive me, I'd like to say something somewhat selfish. I have a romance video that I completed for Otakon sitting on my hard-drive waiting to be released. It's probably my most personal amv ever. That obviously means it has some emotions (personal) injected in it and considerably more than "Glory of Love." And yet, I still like "Glory of Love" more and I think people will feel the same way.

Perhaps that somewhat discredits my argument and I'm rambling, but I guess I'm curious to see the reception it gets when compared to "Glory of Love." More emotional ties and yet even the creator (me) doesn't like it as much. In any case, for those interested, keep your eyes peeled. I hope you enjoy it . (/pimp)

At the same time, I may be sharing what *I* think good romance videos have, but ultimately that's just the opinion of one person. Each of us has our own opinions and ultimately you'll figure out what you like in certain romance video by yourself. Hopefully this discussion will help you to come up with what you like, but if you come to some other conclusion, more power to ya! And uhm, sorry about the long post, but I am (sadly) a romance editor by nature.

Good luck with your romance video!

[madbunny]

Run Away with me
What Romance entails
A thousand miles
My sweetness

Some examples of nonstandard, less than smoochy romance videos.
As with everyone else, even Dwchang (although he denied it, then changed his mind) story matters.

The thing about romance, is that you can't really apply a good formula to it the way that you can with other styles of video. For example; if you want action, all you really have to do is find a good song, and find the internal patterns to the song. Sure this might mean lots and lots of work, but it's a formula that works.

The real thing that you have to be able to do is to get a sense of actually caring about the people in your video. As Arigatomyna pointed out, for the fans of the show, you have a built in sale unless you screw it up royally. Dwchangs advice about having a consistent 'theme' for your videos is probably the best so far, along with a definable story arc.

Personally I favor the romantic videos over any other style, partly because I'm a big softy, but mostly because I enjoy seeing the characters grow and develop through the process of the story.
While an anime might have 27 episodes, and resolve the love on the last episode 5 minutes before the end of the series, your video won't have that luxury, so you need to take, not neccesarily pivotal scenes (since as has been pointed out, unless you know what they are, it's just another scene) peices that will convey your point. Use the unique expressive chracter of the artwork in anime. Sometimes an expression, or simply a look can convey what you want way better than smoochy. Save your smoochy, hoard it for the right moment.

[Onyyx]

In dramatic videos, the Cross Dissolve is your friend.

Know this, and edit verily.

x2

I almost felt bad when making my Innocence Loved vid, I mean wheres all the crazy complicated effects? a couple additive dissolves, a couple non additive dissolves (Which in later versions were removed), the rest, oh yeah, you guessed it Cross dissolve, cross dissolve, cross dissolve.

I prefer lyric sync'ing for romantic type videos, as opposed to beat sync'ing. Maybe some lip sync at one or two key points of the song lyrics but I wouldn't go outta my way for it either, personally I hate lip sync vids.

But above all else, and I mean ALL ELSE, scene selection is your god, if you aren't very very careful and be very picky with your scene selections, your going to hell and have little guys with horns poking your butt with pitchforks. But only between 10am and 5pm, their union

And I wouldn't worry too much if your scenes are longer than what your used to in faster moving videos, its ok, just ignore that little part of your brain thats shrieking at you "that clip is more than 3 seconds long!"

Innocence Loved was my first Drama/Romance video, I thought it was gonna be so easy compared to faster moving videos i've done prior.....WRONG WRONG WRONG. Its as tough as any other video type, just for different reasons.


Well that was a fun little, only barely on topic, rant. Have to do it again sometime.

[Bakadeshi [AuN Studios]]

I can't beleive I forgot A thousand miles. Excellent example.

Thanks madbunny for the pimpage

That one however (Run away with me) is more of a light hearted romance vid I guess. I'm not realy sure actually how to classify it, but its different from most romance ones.

Dwchang gave some excellent advice, follow it.

I agree with madbunny, make sure your clips can tell a story on its own, without the need of knowing about the anime.

and Dokool - I beat ya to it

[dwchang]

As with everyone else, even Dwchang (although he denied it, then changed his mind) story matters.

Again, I admitted it was important (and yeah realized halfway through my argument), but ultimately do not think it is the key like people are saying. It helps a lot, but I still think emotion and a consistent theme are more important. I made note of many non-story-driven romance amvs that could debateably be called the best on this site.

The thing about romance, is that you can't really apply a good formula to it the way that you can with other styles of video. For example; if you want action, all you really have to do is find a good song, and find the internal patterns to the song. Sure this might mean lots and lots of work, but it's a formula that works.

Agreed. I know it's a cop-out, but it's really difficult for me to define what makes a good romance video or how to make one. I mean there's no real "formula" for any drama, but even moreso with this imo.

Sadly/surprisingly (?), I somewhat excel at videos in this department, but can't do jack with comedy or action :-/. Oh well...

Use the unique expressive chracter of the artwork in anime. Sometimes an expression, or simply a look can convey what you want way better than smoochy. Save your smoochy, hoard it for the right moment.

Excellent point that I forgot. I apologize for using my own videos, but obviously it's the only ones I truly know about. In any case, if you are brave and actually read my video description of it, you'll get quite a bit of insight into every scene I used.

As you said, little things like an expression on the face or even something as subtle as a blink to a very light note can do something. The viewer won't explicitely know this, but they'll still go "that was good, I wonder why?" I think something like this can go a lot further than something like syncing EVERY beat or something like that. Perhaps this is only for dramatic or romance amvs, but who knows.

At the same time, it's funny you say to save your smoochies and so on. You couldn't be more right. For *some* shows, there is very little physical romance. With "Escaflowne," there is very little physical romance. In fact, I know the series so well and *know* that the two characters only embrace four times (one isn't really an embrace, but I make it seem that way).

When I made my own video, I made note of this and used those four embraces at key parts in the song/theme (most are at the end of the chorus and one at the very end). I think this makes a big difference. In any case, the advice here is to save the powerful moments and use them appropriately. Don't use them sparingly or randomly.

In dramatic videos, the Cross Dissolve is your friend.

Know this, and edit verily.

x2

I almost felt bad when making my Innocence Loved vid, I mean wheres all the crazy complicated effects? a couple additive dissolves, a couple non additive dissolves (Which in later versions were removed), the rest, oh yeah, you guessed it Cross dissolve, cross dissolve, cross dissolve.

A good cross-dissolve can go a long way. I know it sounds crazy and a bit obsessive-compulsive, but I've been known to spend nearly an hour tweaking a dissolve. I'd like to think it makes a difference, but well that's just my opinion.

But yeah, I think even something as subtle as a cross-dissolve being one frame longer or ending RIGHT ON a specific note/word, can go a long way.

One thing I'd also like to note is that you shouldn't be afraid of a *very long* dissolve. My newest (unreleased) romance video has dissolves in it over 2 seconds long. I know it sounds bad, but given the song and how moody/slow it is, I think it works. Don't be afraid to do what the song "says." That's the point right? To make the video YOU see/hear/whatever. If we all did the same thing, AMVs would be pretty boring.

I prefer lyric sync'ing for romantic type videos, as opposed to beat sync'ing. Maybe some lip sync at one or two key points of the song lyrics but I wouldn't go outta my way for it either, personally I hate lip sync vids.

Lyric sync can work really well for Romance videos because the song's lyrics can be powerful. It's sort of a given that most romance songs are powerful lyrically and it's only appropriate to try and sync to those powerful words and emotions portrayed in them.

But above all else, and I mean ALL ELSE, scene selection is your god, if you aren't very very careful and be very picky with your scene selections

Now although I agree with you here, I also argue that what video doesn't need good scene selection? It's not really specific to just romance videos imo.

At the same time, as I said above, using key or powerful scenes at appropriate parts in the song can go a LONG way. A lot longer than using a really cool scene in an action video, etc.. Yeah I agree there, but ultimately scene selection is very important in all videos. Random syncs/scenes are really annoying to me in any genre.

Like cross-dissolves, I've been known to debate between 2+ scenes at a sync point for over an hour as well. Again, I'd like to think that amount of work put in pays off, but well...it's probably me just being an obsessive compulsive .

And I wouldn't worry too much if your scenes are longer than what your used to in faster moving videos, its ok, just ignore that little part of your brain thats shrieking at you "that clip is more than 3 seconds long!"

Try scenes over 5 seconds . If the scene is nice and moody and most importantly, it works...use it. Like anything in a *HOBBY*, do what you want. If something works, do it. Ultimately it's your video.

make sure your clips can tell a story on its own, without the need of knowing about the anime.

Agreed. I think a good romance video can be appreciated by fans of the show and a great romance video can transcend that and people who haven't even seen it can enjoy it. It takes a lot of hard work to somehow get past the inherent need to know the show. Sadly I don't know the magical formula here :-/.

BTW this is an interesting thread and I'm enjoying it. Romance videos are obviously my favorite (both to watch and make), so it's interesting to see what other people think.

[TaranT]

A good cross-dissolve can go a long way. I know it sounds crazy and a bit obsessive-compulsive, but I've been known to spend nearly an hour tweaking a dissolve. I'd like to think it makes a difference, but well that's just my opinion.

But yeah, I think even something as subtle as a cross-dissolve being one frame longer or ending RIGHT ON a specific note/word, can go a long way.

One thing I'd also like to note is that you shouldn't be afraid of a *very long* dissolve. My newest (unreleased) romance video has dissolves in it over 2 seconds long. I know it sounds bad, but given the song and how moody/slow it is, I think it works....

Try scenes over 5 seconds. If the scene is nice and moody and most importantly, it works...use it. Like anything in a *HOBBY*, do what you want. If something works, do it. Ultimately it's your video....

Heh, I've got you beat. I just finished a romance vid yesterday (it's for Anime Evolution), and it starts with a 4 sec fade into a 13 second clip. The longest scene is 12 sec including 3 sec crossfades at both ends. No cuts at all in this one.

Vids like this are D.O.A. as far as popularity ratings and contests go, simply because the average viewer's attention span is about as long as a bomb blast in a Jerry Bruckheimer movie. Newbs think it's easy to just drop two scenes over each other, and they don't see the hours it takes to just set the start and end points. Not to mention controlling the speed change of any moving elements, as well as controlling the viewers eye. Crossfades are one of the most difficult things to get right (and I've seen good vids damaged or ruined by bad dissolves). But when it's done right, a long fade is a thing of beauty.

And I have also spent time tweaking fades frame by frame. It's important.

***************

As long as we're talking about techniques for romance vids, did anyone mention slow pans across scenery, faces, etc? Or slow zooms and pullbacks? Standard stuff, but good ways to compensate for the monotony (relatively speaking) of long scenes.