A thought on the idea of 'Best Ever'

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:20 pm

To append to my statements, another good example (the other way around) is Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water. That show was wildly successful and popular in Japan, but in the states I hardly know anyone who owns it (unfortunately). Same for Gunbuster (another early Gainax title). IIRC the last Newtype poll had Nadia in the top 5 easy.

Another good example is Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, a Miyazaki film. Sure we love Spirited Away, but this is (IMO) significantly better and yet little to no recognition in the states. In fact, there is so little demand that I don't even see it being released here for awhile (Disney has the rights). IIRC Disney is releaseing Porco Rosso next (which is a great film too) and delaying Nausicaa which is arguably one of the biggest animes in japan ever.

How about Doraemon? Orignal Gundam (0079)? Both easily in the top 20 as well. Hardly recognized in the states.

In conclusion, you can easily see that there is no way to determine a definitive list or something. I mean just in two countries alone you have such deviation.

Trident · Post by **Trident** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:38 pm

I'd definitely agree with the test of time thing, and I'd bet that Eva will continue to withstand it. I'd add to the qualities characterizing "best anime" that it influences more than is influenced. Despite the fact that most otaku hate DBZ, I'd almost predict that the various Dragonballs (particularly Z) will be considered "classics," though probably not the best series ever.

Actually, that's probably a more relevant issue--what anime will be considered a classic? "Best" is so subjective anyway. Remember that "Top 100 movies of all time" thing a couple of years ago? Citizen Kane won. How many of us have even seen that movie, let alone liked it? Or 2001: A Space Odyssey, which was likewise up there on the list? Even if we don't particularly like them, they're definitely classics and important cinematic landmarks. Maybe that's a better question in the end.

kearlywi · Post by **kearlywi** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:38 pm

Well, I think the author of this thread wasnt even thinking of Japan, or even aware of the descrepency. Yeah, Doraemon is HUGE in Japan, if you could compile a list for both the U.S. and Japan, there would probably be little common ground. Since most of us here are not living in Japan, we should probably just consider things from our western viewpoint, of course if you're from Japan then go ahead.

You are right the U.S. is a relatively small peice of the puzzle, but I think this thread is for that perspective mainly.

As far as Cowboy Bebop, it may be *only* 5 years old but it has to be the most popular anime in the states right now (and has been for some time), everyone I ask has it right there at number 1, and its number 1 (with room) on top 30 anime. But popularity can be fleeting. I still PROJECT that it will be a classic in 20 years not just because of current popularity, but for 3 reasons:

1: It has a unique look, style, and individual identity. It never comes off as generic. Its style trancends fads and trends, and its selection of music covers many genres and many eras.

2: The animation quality is AMAZING for 1998, something that by itself makes Cowboy Bebop a benchmark anime.

3: Its well liked by a wide variety of fans, its not a cult anime. Doraemon came to be immortally successful because of its enormous fanbase. There are few flaws with cowboy Bebop which will disenchant these fans over time, and its very unlikely to be eclipsed by a similar anime (since so few animes are significantly similar).

kearlywi · Post by **kearlywi** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:46 pm

Trident wrote:I'd almost predict that the various Dragonballs (particularly Z) will be considered "classics," though probably not the best series ever.

Actually, that's probably a more relevant issue--what anime will be considered a classic? "Best" is so subjective anyway. Remember that "Top 100 movies of all time" thing a couple of years ago? Citizen Kane won. How many of us have even seen that movie, let alone liked it? Or 2001: A Space Odyssey, which was likewise up there on the list? Even if we don't particularly like them, they're definitely classics and important cinematic landmarks. Maybe that's a better question in the end.

Yeah I agree. However I have seen Citizen Kane, and I don't think its even worthy of the top 50, let alone the top spot. However, it was a significant film in Hollywood History, starring Orson Wells, A huge Radio Star, and it marked the transition from radio to Film/TV as America's primary source of entertainment. That, and the fact that the company who made this list has shares in the company that made Citizen Kane.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:11 pm

kearlywi wrote:Well, I think the author of this thread wasnt even thinking of Japan, or even aware of the descrepency. Yeah, Doraemon is HUGE in Japan, if you could compile a list for both the U.S. and Japan, there would probably be little common ground. Since most of us here are not living in Japan, we should probably just consider things from our western viewpoint, of course if you're from Japan then go ahead. You are right the U.S. is a relatively small peice of the puzzle, but I think this thread is for that perspective mainly.

Uhm..I think they are talking about Japan as well considering they name Doraemon in their original post.

kearlywi wrote:As far as Cowboy Bebop, it may be *only* 5 years old but it has to be the most popular anime in the states right now (and has been for some time), everyone I ask has it right there at number 1, and its number 1 (with room) on top 30 anime. But popularity can be fleeting. I still PROJECT that it will be a classic in 20 years not just because of current popularity, but for 3 reasons:

1: It has a unique look, style, and individual identity. It never comes off as generic. Its style trancends fads and trends, and its selection of music covers many genres and many eras.

2: The animation quality is AMAZING for 1998, something that by itself makes Cowboy Bebop a benchmark anime.

3: Its well liked by a wide variety of fans, its not a cult anime. Doraemon came to be immortally successful because of its enormous fanbase. There are few flaws with cowboy Bebop which will disenchant these fans over time, and its very unlikely to be eclipsed by a similar anime (since so few animes are significantly similar).

Well like I said earlier, *I* personally think it will stand the test of time (hell it's pretty high in Japan still too), but I was just saying you can't say anything definitive for years. There are no definites in well...anything

.

kearlywi · Post by **kearlywi** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:23 pm

dwchang wrote:Uhm..I think they are talking about Japan as well considering they name Doraemon in their original post.

True.

dwchang wrote:Well like I said earlier, *I* personally think it will stand the test of time (hell it's pretty high in Japan still too), but I was just saying you can't say anything definitive for years. There are no definites in well...anything .

kearlywi wrote:I still PROJECT that it will be a classic in 20 years

Yeah I agree, it is a PROJECTION at this point.

Heero_Yuy84 · Post by **Heero_Yuy84** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:26 am

Just to clarify: Yes, I was using Japan as a guage

Hence Doraemon (which, by last check, no company's had the cojones to bring over)...and the other examples serve the point as well (Lupin's success here has been fair, but nothing compared to that of many other animes...and the most popular of the Gundam series in Japan, the original, gets the cold shoulder here from a lot of fans sadly over the fact it's animation is dated...)

But that's a rant for another time...
As for the NT lists...I dunno...personally I've been skeptical about those since the time I saw Sister Princess RePure (I think it was either this or the original) make it all the way up to #9...

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:31 am

dwchang wrote:
kearlywi wrote:
Heero_Yuy84 wrote:The best way to look at any show's potential for this is by taking a look and asking 'Where do I see this show 20 years from now?'
But when asked to classify anime in a "standing the test of time" manner, It significantly changes my list. Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis Evangelion were quickly mentioned in this thread, and they were also the first two to jump to my mind (even though they are only #9 and #7 on my top ten list, respectively). There are animes I personally have come to love a lot that I know wont have much clout in 20 years. For example Full Metal Panic, and also Inuyasha. Granted, if Inuyasha ends very well, it might survive in the top 30 for a very long time, but as it stands now, it will be remembered (like kenshin TV series) for being too silly to be considered an immortal classic. Although Kenshin has survived a long time (its #4 on top 30 anime), so maybe not.

Another anime that I love is Love Hina, but I doubt it will be strongly remembered in 20 years, as it is pretty much a clone of several animes/manga before it (granted, its really well done) and more importantly, it itself will be cloned several times during the next next 20 years. As far as what I personally think of Love Hina, it used to be my favorite anime, period. But after seeing Ranma 1/2, I went back and watched love hina, again, and I didnt laugh at anything (I'm not reffering to "Love Hina Again" which I liked more than most). Its probably the fastest fading anime I personally like (Its currently my 4th favorite anime).

Another anime which would definitely stand the test of time is Ranma 1/2. Some anime websites (with old-school fans) have dubbed Ranma 1/2 the most Popular anime ever. While it may have been at one time, it isnt anymore, but its still very popular despite being 15 years old. From what i have seen, Ranma 1/2 seems to be getting slightly less popular with time, as fewer and fewer new people see it. That being said, it has lasted well for 15 years (its currently #9 on top 30 anime).

One other classic anime that is still well liked is Escaflowne. Its only a few months newer than Evangelion, and is still very well liked. Escaflowne is the only series (besides Inuyasha) that I enjoy watching even more every additional time I see it. It will stand the test of time, at least for me.
Actually Cowboy Bebop is hardly even 5 years old so I don't know if we can say anything really. I mean sure I love it as do the japanese, but I'd rather give it a few years. It's too "young."

And as crappy as it is for me to admit, Escaflowne and Kenshin are nowhere near "standing the test of time." Open up any Newtype "best ever" poll and you'll never see them anywhere near the top...maybe in the top 50? 100? You gotta realize (as hard as it is) that the opinion of the states isn't really that valid when evaluating anime as "best ever." I't sjust one piece of the puzzle (and a very small one at that). Just because a show is popular here does't mean jack in Japan. Escaflowne and Kenshin are great examples of this.

I'd say I agree with the Ranma 1/2 point though since that is well over 10 years old. However, as I said before, this is a moot point to argue..."best ever" is a personal opinion and can be judged on so many things for just one person..it's just that...an opinion. There is no definitive answer.

Yeah i have to definitely agree with u about the "best ever" anime would have to be a personal decision ... me personally i like action/romance/comedy type anime ... for example .. Love Hina, Ah My goddess and of course i cant forget Eva even though it is less on the romance type ... but someone else might like other types and think that eva isnt the best ... thats just their opinion ... well thats my 2 cents about that... 8)

kearlywi · Post by **kearlywi** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:26 am

Jonathan02us wrote:well thats my 2 cents about that... 8)

Lol, thats like the 3rd time you've said that exact phrase just today. You should make it your signature

.

Jonathan02us · Post by **Jonathan02us** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:40 am

kearlywi wrote:
Jonathan02us wrote:well thats my 2 cents about that... 8)
Lol, thats like the 3rd time you've said that exact phrase just today. You should make it your signature .

HAHA ... u kno wat i might just do that ... ok i will ... 8) look below ...

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A thought on the idea of 'Best Ever'

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