Best Series? Top 100?

hellmasteraster · Post by **hellmasteraster** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:30 am

Is it just me or does it seem like most new anime fans are looking past the older series?
For example if you goto
http://www.animenfo.com/statistic/top100.php?type=anime
and look at the top 100. I think its ridiculus that most of the anime listed there came out within the last 5 years. I don't think its fair that series like childs toy, utena, marmalade boy, dna2, dbz, sailor moon, and slayers are not even in the top 100. 4 Years ago many of those series would be in the top 10 list a great number of anime fans let alone the top 100(don't know many ppl that have actually watch 100 series though). Bottom line is ppl who use this top 100 to see which series is worth their time to watch are getting a biased view of the best anime. A huge biases I see is toward newer releases.

It seems like in the last couple of years the anime world took a huge turn. Fansubs became downloadable encodes. The us anime companies have exploded with more anime dvds than a person could watch in a lifetime. Most of these changes have very good effects on anime. For example, its cheaper and easier to to download anime than to pay $50 and wait 4 weeks for someone copy you fansubs. Commercial Anime DVD offer very high quality anime with english and japanese tracks and decent translations. But this leaves a problem for some great series.

Series that are licensed and not showed on cable tv don't seem to get much attention reguardless of how good a series it is. Since most encoders don't encode licensed anime people who haven't seen these series have a hard time knowing they even exists. Two huge examples are Utena and The Slayers. These are two of my favorite series along with most of the people at my anime club. Though a lot of anime fans have seen these, the newer anime fans will probably never see these series unless they show them on cartoon network or a friend advise them to watch them.

Unlicensed older anime has many probablems because usually if they are encoded, most ppl already have them burned off onto a cd/dvd so they are sharing them on peer to peer networks and the major groups that release anime usually only release anime from dvds or cable tv capture. Most older anime are not being shown on the tv and usually the highest quality source an encoder can find is a LD(not easy to encode) or crappy honk kong bootleg(if they exist) so its hard for encoders to start a new release of them. The Classic example of this is Child's Toy. People have been trying for so long to release all the eps and hopefully one day someone will have all 102 eps in a couple easy to download bit torrent files.

I think its foolish to have a top 100 anime list to begin with because anime is a lot like music in the fact that every anime series appeals to different audiences like different types of music do(alternative, hiphop, rap, techno, country, classical, oldies,....). How can you compare a shoujo to shonen anime and a serious to a comical anime anime when they are trying to do different things? Anime should be compared to other animes similar to it. I think if the anime community addresses this issue along with the biases of new anime we can have internet resources that will show many great series we would have not been introduced to otherwise.

Oboe · Post by **Oboe** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:50 am

I am DEFINATELY gonna agree with you on this one. I don't even see Akira on there! (And even if you don't like Akira, you HAVE to admit it was a revolutionary piece that raised the bar on what is to be expected from anime movies.)

I would understand if the list said something like "Top 100 New Anime" or "Top 100 Anime from 98 - 2003" . . . I certainly can't see Last Exile being the best anime ever . . .

And I especially agree with what you said about Utena. I love Utena with an absolute passion, but I find it hard to get others to watch it. Most people find the show "too girly" or some such nonsense, and that's certainly understandable if you ONLY watch the first thirteen episodes. The Student Counsel Arch is the weakest Arch in the series, and most people believe that if you watch thirteen episodes into a series and they still don't like it, then the whole thing is crap. Not so with Utena! Pass the thirteenth episode and experiance mind-blowing animation and style, plot twists, character development up the wazoo, and the most EVIL villain known to man! I can't praise Utena enough for its fleshed out, believeable characters! But I digress . . .

Older anime has so much to offer, and I HAVE noticed this about anime clubs I've been to, only showing NEW anime, snubbing the old. I mean, how can we forget about classice like Captain Harlock, Bubblegum Crisis, and Kimagure Orange Road? Can Trigun and Hellsing stand up to Irresponsible Captain Tylor and Kyuuketsuki Miyu? Granted, new anime certainly are good . . . but where would they be without the rule-bending classics? I've noticed Gainax certainly knows its roots. Notice all the Lupin III homages in FLCL? Watch Otaku no Video to see absolute worship to great series'! What about Urusai Yatsura? *the ONLY Rumiko Takahashi creation I actually enjoy*

It makes me sad that fans don't know their roots. And it's not only in anime I'm seeing this! I was watching the movie "12 Angry Men" in class one time, and some guy yelled out "Booooo! All black and white movies SUCK!" I was in complete shock. How can someone say something like that? Have they not witnessed the greatness of "Citizen Kane" and "To Kill A Mockingbird?" Can someone truly snub Duck Soup and "Witness For the Prosecution"? Or the classic Sherlock Holmes films with Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce?

Another example is I was playing Final Fantasy 6, and my sister actually gagged and said "How can you PLAY that? Look at those graphics!" Yeesh! Yes, there are some beautiful looking games out there today, but can we forget out roots??

I'm sorry, I went off on a rant.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:07 pm

My brother is on this "Last Exile is the best anime ever!!!" bandwagon lately. And it all started when he saw that list, even before the anime.

Even just based on that, I temporarily refuse to watch it.

Personally, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Comparisons are shallow.

Any objective judgement of the quality of a production is impossible in terms of comparing it to other things. Let alone ranking them in a strictly-placed order.

There's ups and downs to everything, and there's no perfect title. And the degree to which a title is enjoyable in comparison to others is purely subjective.

***

As for the old/new debate - well, it's natural for current stuff to be, well, current. It'll always have an edge in terms of popularity against the oldies since it's always up to more current fashions (like character design styles), technologies (animation complexity) and issues. Not to mention better-advertised.

Generally though, it's ridiculous to claim things like 'Best' based on just current popularity. It's a bad, bad misdefinition. I'd consider influence and long-lasting impact a much more valuable measure. So, let them say what they will, I'm yet to see Last Exile influence or even define something, while I have to admit whether you take Akira, Kimagure Orange Road, DBZ, Sailormoon or Eva - all these are benchmarks for their respective genres and styles, regardless of what your opinion is of either the titles or the styles.

So, bah. Badbad. Dispence with comparisons.

Then again, the reviewer is reviewing self. I guess that speaks to the quality and attention of the audiences that determine what's hot and what's not.

samurairyu · Post by **samurairyu** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:38 pm

hellmasteraster wrote:Is it just me or does it seem like most new anime fans are looking past the older series?
For example if you goto
http://www.animenfo.com/statistic/top100.php?type=anime
and look at the top 100. I think its ridiculus that most of the anime listed there came out within the last 5 years. I don't think its fair that series like childs toy, utena, marmalade boy, dna2, dbz, sailor moon, and slayers are not even in the top 100. 4 Years ago many of those series would be in the top 10 list a great number of anime fans let alone the top 100(don't know many ppl that have actually watch 100 series though). Bottom line is ppl who use this top 100 to see which series is worth their time to watch are getting a biased view of the best anime. A huge biases I see is toward newer releases.

It seems like in the last couple of years the anime world took a huge turn. Fansubs became downloadable encodes. The us anime companies have exploded with more anime dvds than a person could watch in a lifetime. Most of these changes have very good effects on anime. For example, its cheaper and easier to to download anime than to pay $50 and wait 4 weeks for someone copy you fansubs. Commercial Anime DVD offer very high quality anime with english and japanese tracks and decent translations. But this leaves a problem for some great series.

Series that are licensed and not showed on cable tv don't seem to get much attention reguardless of how good a series it is. Since most encoders don't encode licensed anime people who haven't seen these series have a hard time knowing they even exists. Two huge examples are Utena and The Slayers. These are two of my favorite series along with most of the people at my anime club. Though a lot of anime fans have seen these, the newer anime fans will probably never see these series unless they show them on cartoon network or a friend advise them to watch them.

Unlicensed older anime has many probablems because usually if they are encoded, most ppl already have them burned off onto a cd/dvd so they are sharing them on peer to peer networks and the major groups that release anime usually only release anime from dvds or cable tv capture. Most older anime are not being shown on the tv and usually the highest quality source an encoder can find is a LD(not easy to encode) or crappy honk kong bootleg(if they exist) so its hard for encoders to start a new release of them. The Classic example of this is Child's Toy. People have been trying for so long to release all the eps and hopefully one day someone will have all 102 eps in a couple easy to download bit torrent files.

I think its foolish to have a top 100 anime list to begin with because anime is a lot like music in the fact that every anime series appeals to different audiences like different types of music do(alternative, hiphop, rap, techno, country, classical, oldies,....). How can you compare a shoujo to shonen anime and a serious to a comical anime anime when they are trying to do different things? Anime should be compared to other animes similar to it. I think if the anime community addresses this issue along with the biases of new anime we can have internet resources that will show many great series we would have not been introduced to otherwise.

word

Heero_Yuy84 · Post by **Heero_Yuy84** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:44 pm

I'm with Otohiko on this...this list is clearly based off current popularity, as many influential titles have been left off (notice the absence of (for the sake of some examples) Lupin III (to which Bebop owes some of its style), Mobile Suit Gundam (which prettymuch reinvented the mecha genre), and Doraemon (...the show's been running 30+ years, and, to the best of my knowledge is still kicking, I think it's safe to say it's had a last impression!))

Cyanna · Post by **Cyanna** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:50 pm

Oboe wrote: I don't even see Akira on there! (And even if you don't like Akira, you HAVE to admit it was a revolutionary piece that raised the bar on what is to be expected from anime movies.)
.....

It makes me sad that fans don't know their roots. And it's not only in anime I'm seeing this! I was watching the movie "12 Angry Men" in class one time, and some guy yelled out "Booooo! All black and white movies SUCK!" I was in complete shock. How can someone say something like that?

Akira was on the list at #94

And "12 Angry Men" rocks! I love the characters. I love that movie.

samurairyu · Post by **samurairyu** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:58 pm

Cyanna wrote:
Oboe wrote: I don't even see Akira on there! (And even if you don't like Akira, you HAVE to admit it was a revolutionary piece that raised the bar on what is to be expected from anime movies.)
.....

It makes me sad that fans don't know their roots. And it's not only in anime I'm seeing this! I was watching the movie "12 Angry Men" in class one time, and some guy yelled out "Booooo! All black and white movies SUCK!" I was in complete shock. How can someone say something like that?
Akira was on the list at #94

And "12 Angry Men" rocks! I love the characters. I love that movie.

Yeah

Some of the best movies are in black and white such as Kurosawa and Mifune's "Rashoman" and the timeless classic "The Seven Samurai."
The original "Godzilla" was in B/W.

Just because tech was less back then don't mean you can't find good stuff.

Though I will add that not all old movies are good, this seems to be a given but I want to be clear on this.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:46 pm

I don't think there's anything to say here other then the obvious...most anime fans are fanboys/girls...they see something they like and go apeshit over it. They rank it insanely high and then move on to the next bandwagon.

It's kind of like overly inflated scores here on the .org. Not much you can do about it other then kill fanboys/girls or teach them *gasp* to not get so excited and really think about it and not go on impulses.

Oboe · Post by **Oboe** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:13 pm

Inflated scores here? Where? *is confused*

Pie Row Maniac · Post by **Pie Row Maniac** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:04 am

I like what I like. What can I tell ya. Don't need an explanation really. If it appeals to me, then I'll say "Good stuph, I recommend it". If I don't enjoy watching it, I make a sour face and fart on the TV. Although I do have to admit, I don't think I've crossed an anime that I haven't wanted to watch again eventually. Even Fatal Fury The Motion Picture I rented twice.

Funny how I said I didn't need an explanation when I start rambling after saying it.

Finally...
Trigun = Favorite

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Best Series? Top 100?

Best Series? Top 100?

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