Kearly's REVENGE!

[kearlywi]

About a week ago I posted my first AMV on this site. It was a "Message" type amv, complete with average at best effects, but also featuring high amounts symbolism and syncing. You can view the video for yourself here.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=25555

The vid began to recieve incredible scores, I myself had given it a 10, but only as a vote of confidence, like if I were running in an election. The vid deserves about a '9', really, and thats about where it sits right now (~8.3) after 10 ops. When I hit 8 ops (over about a week and a half, its DAMN hard to get ops), the "magic" number, my score was a 9.8.
I was shocked really to see it get so many good scores, I guess those that saw the vid were only those who were open minded enough to stomach a LP vid, and deep enough to have viewed, analysed, and appreciated BERSERK.

This meant not only that my video made the top 10%, but that it came in on top. It was too much for my video to survive. The following is an actual review I got just after it made the list. A second review, equally as damaging, came in just a few minutes after this one.

Rankings Orig. Capture Sound Action Lip Effects Effort Re-view
1 9 9 3 1 3 7 1
Overall
2
Good good quality

Bad just didnt really get a point across

General There was far too much use of fading and the scene selection could have been better. Linkin park isnt a hated group, they have good music and that is the problem. Their music is so popular that a bunch of noobs always use one of their songs for their first video so that nobody ever wants to download one of their vids anymore. I saw that the video has an accumulated rating of 9.8 and this is the most disgusting thing to me. It's like a slap in the face to every video editer of talent on these boards.

When I saw these, I wasnt surprised, but my feelings were hurt nonetheless. What did I ever do to them? Why didn't they tell me specifically what they hated about the video? What. The. Hell.
I had to write them back, and as I wrote I realized that I would probably never get a response. Hence the post here. Here is the letter I wrote to Black Magic.

"I saw that the video has an accumulated rating of 9.8 and this is the most disgusting thing to me."

I think I agree. This video isn't just a fun little thing I did in my spare time, but was all I did for 2 months. It is my first video, in case you missed that. For those two months I spilled myself into this video, and its almost like a child to me, I want to see it succeed. However a score of 9.8 was WAY better than it deserved, and I knew that once it hit that top ten %, it would be smoked by hordes of critics, namely those who are ruthless competitors. If you did this because you think I inflated my own score by making multiple accounts, etc, you would be incorrect. These were real people, friends, strangers, critics, and yes, myself, who gave that video its 9.8 opinion rating through seven ops.

Yours was magic ' 9 '. The first opinion I recieved upon entering the "Top Ten %" videos.

Did you watch my video? Its not like I can snap my fingers and magically make everyone like my video, so what was it that bothered you SO MUCH? I was hoping for SPECIFIC DETAILS (Did you even see the series?). I can take criticism. I strongly suspect that this may have been an act of sabotage, but honestly I expected that. I noticed that you have given only one op so far, a 9 to someone else.

"It's like a slap in the face to every video editer of talent on these boards."

Its editor.

I made your opinion public, so everyone can see what you thought of it.
I'm posting this email in the AMV announcements forum, FYI.

By the way, does the user "Ninjutsu" ring a bell? (He goes to Indiana), he also sabotaged my video, just 12 minutes after you did. He also has a knack for misspelling.
He said very nasty things against me PERSONALLY, just like you did. He had also given just one other opinion, a 10, to himself. The photo he had in his profile was from the same anime as yours, and quite resembled yours. His account is less than a week old. Hmm... Interesting...

8)

Ninjutsu, the "second" sabateur, added this gem (He gave me a "3"):

A for effort though! Good first video.

I had no idea a "3" was a good video. I'm honored.

[kearlywi]

You know as I go to bed now, finally able to sleep, I realized something:

If a video is to be successful, it must cater to the people’s desires. A truly independent and artistic creation could suffer if contradicting these desires. Case and Point: The most artistic films rarely make the most money.

Art is a risky endevour, and thats why it's beautiful. But with success comes sacrifice. In this case, I chose to sacrifice popularity over what I considered artistic intention.

I knew that by making a video to any Linkin Park song, It would be a challenge to get people to like it, or even watch it. Lets be clear on one thing, It was a coincidence that the song I used was by Linkin Park. It Just FIT. I had hoped that if people truly understood my intent, then it wouldnt matter what song I used. I was dead wrong. And its my fault, not theirs.

I considered making a Linkin Park Vid into a successful AMV to be a challenge, and I realize now that it was not a challenge, but an impossibility. Its impossible to reason with certain types, and if we are to succeed we must find ways to succeed despite them; to cater to our biggest critics instead of our own whims (again, if the item is to be successful in terms of score/popularity). The only video to perhaps breach popular doctrine is "The DBZ Life," but once I viewed the video, I understood why. A "blacklisted" anime can be saved by a good concept, but an unpopular song is hopeless.

[Katsumi_AMVs]

Hey kearlywi if you gonna feel better with *this* ... but . . .

I'm happy because my vids aren't so good enough to be in the top 10%,so I'm sure that never gonna happens with me the kind of shit that ppl do giving too low scores to take some vids OUT of the ranking , EVEN if the vids are very well done, IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS some "opinions" that I found in some vids that I gave reviews like this one , this vid receive this 2 uhhh "OPINIONS"?! :

"Opinion" given by bangkai

Rankings = Orig. 5 Capture 5 Sound 5 Action 5 Lip 5 Effects 5 Effort 5 Re-view 5 Overall 5

Good - apa laa

Bad - iskk belasah laa

General - no comments

"Opinion" given by kamesutra


Rankings = Orig. 1 Capture 1 Sound 1 Action 1 Lip 1 Effects 1 Effort 1 Re-view 1 Overall

Good f

Bad f

General f

Hmm I thought that this site had it some RULES to give opinions ....

[turboneko]

Paulo:
I'd suggest to contact Phade to have those ops removed... can't believe there is people really so stupid

Kearly:
I don't want to be rude, but I think that you are making a too big deal out of this. Comment the review, email the guy... this is ok, but going public on the forums looks like a little too much to me.

Even if the guy is biased against LP, he didn't leave a straight 1's review with no comments just to bring the video down: and if you read carefully he explains also what he thinks is good and bad in the video

Good good quality

Bad just didnt really get a point across

General There was far too much use of fading and the scene selection could have been better

Now, he could have been a little more detailed but hey, everybody is entitled to his own opinion and way to express it (given it's not insulting).

Now, I did watch your video. I have my own personal opinion about (but I didn't review it because I have no time)... can't go in full detail here (otherwise I'd write an op ), but let me tell you that it's a good "average" video. The timing is nice, it has sort of a plot... but the effects are often too cheesy and some clips are way too accelerated.

For a first video, it's pretty good. I am not buying the fact that "the song fits perfectly" too much since, if you try, you can match it to basically a gozillion anime (that's another reason why it's so overused). Can't take away the fact that it goes well with Berserk, though.

In the whole process of dealing with this video my feeling is that you made some mistakes:

1) You reviewed it yourself (and you it gave a 10). If you are seeing a plan on bringing it down in the top 10% well... I think this is an attempt to boost it up (or not?)

2) You think too highly of it. I know, it's hard. It's your first video and such, and you did a good job. But, honestly, with a really critic eye (maybe even a little neatpicky ) it's not so impressive.

3) You are taking the fact of using LP as something that will bring doom and misfortune onto you and your video. I have to disagree. It's true that most of "vets" will look the other way... but it's also true that LP has a huge fan base (who, incidentally, have the chance of liking your video).

Now... considered the time I spent writing this post I could have left an op J/K... takes me at least 3 hours to get an op done

Concluding, this post is in no way ment to be rude/flame/hate/whatever. It's just my opinion.

No offense,

- Marco

[godix]

Where exactly is the problem here? You gave yourself a 10 review in an obvious effort to boost your ratings. Two users gave you lower reviews in what might be an effort to lower your ratings or it just might be their honest opinion. Sounds like you're still ahead in the deal, no one has done straight 1's to offset your rating yet. Just be glad you got 9 other people to op it so far, that's more than many creators get, myself included.

I personally think you're overstating how important ops are. The star rating is a good measure of how well people liked the video and ops always appeared to me to be little more than constructive critism.

Incidently, isn't there a rule against having two local version of the same video?

[kearlywi]

I'd suggest to contact Phade to have those ops removed... can't believe there is people really so stupid

I have attempted contacting phade before, to tell him to remove one of my extra AMV's (a rule violation), and he has yet to respond. Damned if I care. The truth is even if I had them removed, several hundred other people would jump in and repeat it, if not the original two themselves. Its ok, because even assholes have a right to an opinion. As you mention later (and I'm totally twisting your words here), there somewhat of a fairness to it.

I don't want to be rude, but I think that you are making a too big deal out of this. Comment the review, email the guy... this is ok, but going public on the forums looks like a little too much to me.

I was pretty emotional last night. I realized that it would come off that way (too much) to some people, but I'm still glad I posted this, it made me feel a lot better. My friends thought it was pretty damn funny.

Even if the guy is biased against LP, he didn't leave a straight 1's review with no comments just to bring the video down: and if you read carefully he explains also what he thinks is good and bad in the video

Good good quality

Bad just didnt really get a point across

General There was far too much use of fading and the scene selection could have been better

A '2' followed 12 minutes later by a '3' is mathematically much worse than a single blasting of 1's.

As far as the comments, I felt some of them were complete bullshit, a cheap slap in the face in some cases. (Didn't get the point across? Many other reviewers said they were moved by it, if the sabateur didn't see the anime of course he wouldn't get the point. What a dumb f*ck, I'm sorry. Sometimes opinions can be stupid.)
As far as the scene selection critique, its my vision and my AMV, if you want more "action" make the damn AMV yourself, dont fight my interpretation; instead embrace it, try to understand it. Honestly so many people were refreshed that this amv didnt just show unsynced action pointlessly as so many other Berserk AMV's have.

Now, he could have been a little more detailed but hey, everybody is entitled to his own opinion and way to express it (given it's not insulting).

Actually it was QUITE insulting...

Made me think about how good of a video it could have been...
I hope you didn't spend too much time on this video because if so, I'd be asking for my time back.

Ouch.

Their music is so popular that a bunch of noobs always use one of their songs for their first video so that nobody ever wants to download one of their vids anymore.

(Insulting my intelligence, as if I didn't know that about LP vids, read the F*cking disclaimer.)

I saw that the video has an accumulated rating of 9.8 and this is the most disgusting thing to me. It's like a slap in the face to every video editer of talent on these boards.

Now, as much as I want keep my game face on, I have to admit, that last one really hurt. I already understand that I don't have a lot of natural talent for editing programs, but I do have a LOT of passion, and I give more effort than most (Making AMV's is all I do, nothing else is fun anymore). So when one guy insulted my effort and the other insulted my talent, that was too much to bear.

Now, I did watch your video. I have my own personal opinion about (but I didn't review it because I have no time)... can't go in full detail here (otherwise I'd write an op ), but let me tell you that it's a good "average" video. The timing is nice, it has sort of a plot... but the effects are often too cheesy and some clips are way too accelerated.

Thank you. I'm glad this at least got you to watch it, that's what I was going for. Its is DEFINITELY NOT top ten % material. I 100% completely agree with your criticisms (espescially on the effects, if you check my description theres even a disclaimer about how 'average' they are). I got those same complaints from each of the 8 other reviewers who left a decently done review. Of course it is my first AMV, and to even try some of the things I did was very ambitious (too much) in my opinion. I think in general the video suffered from being too ambitious, for trying to do too much.

For a first video, it's pretty good. I am not buying the fact that "the song fits perfectly" too much since, if you try, you can match it to basically a gozillion anime (that's another reason why it's so overused). Can't take away the fact that it goes well with Berserk, though.

Wow. For the only time in this post, I very strongly disagree with you. Sure you can get any song to sync with any AMV, and you can certainly make things "work" despite song and video, but there is artistic element that you are not accounting for. When a songwriter makes a song, they are putting a peice of themself into it. When a writer pens the script for an anime (given he's not just trying to make a buck, but trying to be artistic) he too puts a peice of himself into it. I consider myself an artist, because I can feel the kindredness of spirit in matching materials. Perhaps its difficult to see this, as its purely subjective, but most people saw it about half as much as I did, at least. One person, Cory Townsend, a stranger who left an extremely detailed review, felt the connection EVEN STRONGER THAN I DID. Guess what? I looked into it and He was making a Berserk AMV at nearly the exact same time I was. I think we both had the same gut feeling because we had both been immersed in berserk for a long period of time (in his case, from making his AMV).

In the whole process of dealing with this video my feeling is that you made some mistakes:

1) You reviewed it yourself (and you it gave a 10). If you are seeing a plan on bringing it down in the top 10% well... I think this is an attempt to boost it up (or not?)

2) You think too highly of it. I know, it's hard. It's your first video and such, and you did a good job. But, honestly, with a really critic eye (maybe even a little neatpicky ) it's not so impressive.

3) You are taking the fact of using LP as something that will bring doom and misfortune onto you and your video. I have to disagree. It's true that most of "vets" will look the other way... but it's also true that LP has a huge fan base (who, incidentally, have the chance of liking your video).

1.) I agree. I wont next time.
2.) I don't. I thougt it was 8-9 rating material, but apparently many others thought otherwise, maybe they were just being nice, maybe they hadn't seen many AMV's, maybe they hadnt seen a better Berserk LP vid (at least 3 people said that). Its resting now at about 8.3. Thats about what it deserves really, maybe a tiny bit higher.
3.) I was a little unclear in my 2nd post, but what I meant was that it was impossible to succeed (with LP) without some credibility. The two sabateurs assumed I was a noob (reading the disclaimer would have clarified this, but apparrently these are people who don't like to read). I have been around AMV's for a long long time and only recently have I attempted to make one. That being said, the following is something that I did not realized until the gun was smoking: If AD, ERMAC, or Koopaskeva had tried a LP vid, people would be less likely to accuse them (of being noobs) or of unoriginality, and the vid would last lot longer on the top ten % list. (It would also be a hell of a lot better of course.)

Concluding, this post is in no way ment to be rude/flame/hate/whatever. It's just my opinion.

No offense taken. Feel free to post again. I'll read it if you do.

Where exactly is the problem here? You gave yourself a 10 review in an obvious effort to boost your ratings. Two users gave you lower reviews in what might be an effort to lower your ratings or it just might be their honest opinion. Sounds like you're still ahead in the deal, no one has done straight 1's to offset your rating yet. Just be glad you got 9 other people to op it so far, that's more than many creators get, myself included.

True. However it takes about ten 10's to undo a 1. A 10 doesn't balance out a 2 and a 3. I really don't consider their reviews "honest" opinions. I got nothing but 9's and 10's until they came along, so how can I consider scores that low realistic? This is more or less what happened: People who saw the vid before it hit the top of the top ten % list were berserk fans who could stomach LP, and they gave a good score because it was basically an awesome vid for that criteria. However once the video unfortunately hit the top ten % list, it was being viewed by a different crowd altogether, with totally different (and stricter) criteria, not to mention a list of "unwritten" rules. Unfortunately, one person has little power to build, but a lot of power to destroy. This may be unfair, but its just the way it goes. All in all it was a VERY educating experience, and very worth the pain.

I am personally unconcerned with stars, but yes I was very honored that so many people were impressed by it and troubled themselves by leaving a review. Thanks again everyone. Paulo I thought your post was hilarious. I'm glad to that you can laugh about stuff like that now.

[Scintilla]

When I hit 8 ops (over about a week and a half, its DAMN hard to get ops),

You got EIGHT ops in the space of <i>a week and a half?!</i>

I first made my Otakon/AWA 2003 video available for download in May, and it didn't get to 8 opinions until September, if I remember correctly.

You should consider yourself lucky.

(And/or very good at whoring out your videos on the Opinion Exchange, which I only discovered in September. )

[burntoast]

In spite of all these things that have happened to you, why did you upload two versions of the same vid onto the Donut? If you read the rules before uploading, it blatantly tells you not to do so.

I'm sorry but this thread is ridiculous..

[NineBirds]

Damn, your posts are whiny.

Your video is average. I would give it a 3-star rating, 5-6 in the opinion. Footage is clear, sound is clear, idea isn't all that original, and you overuse fading and cut scenes.

I agree with the reviewer who said it didn't seem to have a point--you had a lot of flashy scenes here-and-there and here-and-there and whoops! Look over there! Lookit that! Wait--here something else comes! Fade it! Fade out! Rectangles! Lip synching! Checkit out doesn't it RAWK??

I have attempted contacting phade before, to tell him to remove one of my extra AMV's (a rule violation), and he has yet to respond.

How many people do you think are on a-m-v.org? Sheesh. I'm not surprised if Phade doesn't get back to you right away--I imagine he's got a lot of shit to handle.

(Didn't get the point across? Many other reviewers said they were moved by it, if the sabateur didn't see the anime of course he wouldn't get the point. What a dumb f*ck, I'm sorry. Sometimes opinions can be stupid.)

Guess what--that's his opinion. He's allowed to have whatever opinion he damn well pleases, because when we talk AMVs we talk opinions, not facts. You can't take the bad opinions and call them stupid and the good opinions and say they're facts. The nature of the opinion function is that you take the good and the bad. You have a case if he didn't give any reason--but he did give reasons, you just didn't agree with them.

Stop getting bitchy because people are trying to be honest. And if so many think the videos that great and you're so focused on beating into everyone's head that this is the greatest freakin' video in the world then cheat and get your posse to give you so many opinions it will override the honest ones. If that's what really makes you feel good.

Insulting my intelligence, as if I didn't know that about LP vids, read the F*cking disclaimer.)

You're touchy, too. The guy wasn't insulting your intelligence. He was explaining himself--frankly, I think he was saying more that it's difficult to make a good LP video because of the overuse of ideas.

Blah blah pretentious stuff about "In the End" not matching every freakin' anime in existence

Yes, it is pretentious. I don't care what you think your artistic vision is--it really isn't that different from the thousands and thousands of other vids with Linkin Park in it. Linkin Park's songs are popular not because everyone's "vision" except for yours is misguided but because their songs are very basic. They speak to very basic angsty teenager feelings of loss and loneliness and frustration, and nearly any anime with a drama element will at some point have these elements in it.

And of course more highly rated AMV creators will get a better chance for people to look at their LP videos. If you've delivered quality in the past, then you build an audience. However, too many people have been burned by crappy newbie LP AMVs to bother wasting time and bandwith watching them anymore. This isn't some giant conspiracy against you--it's life.

Get off your high horse. You do think too highly of this AMV. It's natural--after all, not only do you want your creation to be acknowledged but every part of it reflects some feeling you put into making it--but you've got to have a little objectivity here. We weren't part of the creation process--the viewers never are. Viewers rate on what they see, not what you feel. You can't expect us to have the same deep emotional attachment to your video that you do.

I can't believe you don't see anything wrong with coming here and essentially telling us to give you an 8 or 9 rating--as the creator, that's a huge no-no, and only makes you look arrogant and pretentious, especially when your video isn't that great. A thread title like "Karley's Revenge"? Seriously. Since when has this kind of snivelling been revenge?

[kearlywi]

Well I must say, this is becoming one of the most twisted forums I've ever had to make. I created this thread to get back at those guys a little bit (to laugh it off), and also to hear other peoples "horror stories." Unfortunately, this whole thread turned into a horror story in itself.

(entire post)

I'm sorry but this thread is ridiculous..

Thanks Ninebirds for your comments. They were sincerely helpful.

(And/or very good at whoring out your videos on the Opinion Exchange, which I only discovered in September. )

Opinion Exchange? What/Where is that? More info please!
I treasure opinions, especially the realistic ones like NineBird's (and Cory Townsend's).