Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat! 1:1 New Vid!
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- Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but it did. So, Kegger, here's what you do. Start a new op thread - this one has been thoroughly corrupted and turned into a ranting bash-fest argument. In the new thread, make sure to warn that you are not asking for flames, but for criticism. And if you *do* receive a very harsh review, ignore it. Tuck it under your belt and go on. Never reply to it, or you will merely be getting yourself in deeper trouble.
And keep in mind who you're talking with here. One of those two has an amv that has received great reviews - I've seen it, it was great. The other knows enough about editing and amvs in general to have been a panel judge at cons - again, a mark of experience. To tell them they should judge your work differently because it's a hobby you do for fun is like waving a red flag under their noses. Neither of them agrees that things like sync and editing skills don't come naturally to all. Neither admits that idea should be given credit in the absence of those skills in the case of a burgeoning editor.
They haven't seen your work, they haven't seen your improvement, they haven't seen that this was not intended to be a 'greatly edited' amv. If they had, and you had not reacted to the harsh review, they would have given constructive criticism. They would have pointed out *where* to change the sync, how to get the clip transitions smoother, and other pointed remarks besides 'sync' and 'concept.' And they certainly wouldn't have considered the clips random if they tried to reproduce a 'satisfactory' version of this vid with the footage you had to work with and been reduced to finding scenes that will at least have *some* tie to the idea of the 'picture perfect for the song' scene.
The end result, if you go by their decision is that the song cannot be matched with this anime, and that is something everyone here agrees never to say - the freedom to suck being the key phrase. Does this vid suck? I wouldn't know. I'm not a master editor, I don't have the experience, or the skills to determine that. But I can recogize the effort of someone who's just trying to play with a concept and share it with others who will appreciate the concept. I view the vid and give comments on what few areas I see possible improvement on. If I were a better editor myself, I would point out more. But I'm not, and I'm sorry that I can't be of more help.
But I can say, when you make the new thread state that this was a 'fun hobby vid' and that it does not include scenes of the anime redrawn to match the song - which is the only way to make dbz really match this song. If you get a harsh review, just state that your video editing skills have not been perfected to the current standard here, and then go on to the next person. Don't get angry, don't try to explain yourself, don't argue with people for whom this is a bonefied passtime and something they take great pride in. It hurts you and it rubs them the wrong way. Newbies will understand.
Whether they appreciate the humor in the vid or not, at least they will view the vid. And that's one thing you should be glad of here - at least he watched the vid before he commented on it. I've gotten severe replies from people who didn't even bother to download, so it could certainly be worse. And remember, if you don't put emphasis on sync and other skills that 'great' amv-makers have, then that's your choice and preference. If it takes 100+ hrs to make something to take pride in, then that's fine. If it takes a few hours to make something you enjoy watching and think others may enjoy watching, then that's also fine. Share it for people to enjoy, but don't expect a warm reception from those for whom editing is a key factor to that enjoyment.
I enjoy every video I've made, even the horridly edited lacking any and all sync with random clips videos. And if I shared one and got a harsh review I would ask this: "If the clip is random, what clip would you suggest might have worked better for the concept? If the sync is off, where would you suggest I have tightened the sync? If it sucks completely, what would you suggest I do to keep it from sucking? If scrapping the idea completely is the only answer, then thanks anyway, I'll hold to my own preferences." And then it's done. ^_^
And keep in mind who you're talking with here. One of those two has an amv that has received great reviews - I've seen it, it was great. The other knows enough about editing and amvs in general to have been a panel judge at cons - again, a mark of experience. To tell them they should judge your work differently because it's a hobby you do for fun is like waving a red flag under their noses. Neither of them agrees that things like sync and editing skills don't come naturally to all. Neither admits that idea should be given credit in the absence of those skills in the case of a burgeoning editor.
They haven't seen your work, they haven't seen your improvement, they haven't seen that this was not intended to be a 'greatly edited' amv. If they had, and you had not reacted to the harsh review, they would have given constructive criticism. They would have pointed out *where* to change the sync, how to get the clip transitions smoother, and other pointed remarks besides 'sync' and 'concept.' And they certainly wouldn't have considered the clips random if they tried to reproduce a 'satisfactory' version of this vid with the footage you had to work with and been reduced to finding scenes that will at least have *some* tie to the idea of the 'picture perfect for the song' scene.
The end result, if you go by their decision is that the song cannot be matched with this anime, and that is something everyone here agrees never to say - the freedom to suck being the key phrase. Does this vid suck? I wouldn't know. I'm not a master editor, I don't have the experience, or the skills to determine that. But I can recogize the effort of someone who's just trying to play with a concept and share it with others who will appreciate the concept. I view the vid and give comments on what few areas I see possible improvement on. If I were a better editor myself, I would point out more. But I'm not, and I'm sorry that I can't be of more help.
But I can say, when you make the new thread state that this was a 'fun hobby vid' and that it does not include scenes of the anime redrawn to match the song - which is the only way to make dbz really match this song. If you get a harsh review, just state that your video editing skills have not been perfected to the current standard here, and then go on to the next person. Don't get angry, don't try to explain yourself, don't argue with people for whom this is a bonefied passtime and something they take great pride in. It hurts you and it rubs them the wrong way. Newbies will understand.
Whether they appreciate the humor in the vid or not, at least they will view the vid. And that's one thing you should be glad of here - at least he watched the vid before he commented on it. I've gotten severe replies from people who didn't even bother to download, so it could certainly be worse. And remember, if you don't put emphasis on sync and other skills that 'great' amv-makers have, then that's your choice and preference. If it takes 100+ hrs to make something to take pride in, then that's fine. If it takes a few hours to make something you enjoy watching and think others may enjoy watching, then that's also fine. Share it for people to enjoy, but don't expect a warm reception from those for whom editing is a key factor to that enjoyment.
I enjoy every video I've made, even the horridly edited lacking any and all sync with random clips videos. And if I shared one and got a harsh review I would ask this: "If the clip is random, what clip would you suggest might have worked better for the concept? If the sync is off, where would you suggest I have tightened the sync? If it sucks completely, what would you suggest I do to keep it from sucking? If scrapping the idea completely is the only answer, then thanks anyway, I'll hold to my own preferences." And then it's done. ^_^
- dwchang
- Sad Boy on Site
- Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
I did state that I hadn't seen it (perhaps tonight). I was only point out the general derogatory attitude he had in trying to explain himself. I have no beef with the video since I have not seen it (that would be wrong for me to judge before seeing it). However, I do have a beef with someone pretty much insulting people who take time and pride in their work.Arigatomyna wrote:They haven't seen your work, they haven't seen your improvement, they haven't seen that this was not intended to be a 'greatly edited' amv. If they had, and you had not reacted to the harsh review, they would have given constructive criticism. They would have pointed out *where* to change the sync, how to get the clip transitions smoother, and other pointed remarks besides 'sync' and 'concept.' And they certainly wouldn't have considered the clips random if they tried to reproduce a 'satisfactory' version of this vid with the footage you had to work with and been reduced to finding scenes that will at least have *some* tie to the idea of the 'picture perfect for the song' scene.
BTW errr...I'm not sure if you were referring to me, but if it's true, I think you think too highly of me. Thanks anyway (or I am assuming incorrectly here).
Well, I hope I didn't come across as contradicting this because I feel exactly the same. It's a hobby and the key is to have fun. If you have fun throwing a video together in 3 hours as opposed to 100, then no matter if people like it, I'd say you suceeded regardless since you had fun in the creation...it's a hobby afterall. All I was getting at is that we have fun too when creating 100+ hour videos and are also happy with our own work. To classify one way of editing the "correct" way to do a hobby is preposterous.Arigatomyna wrote:And remember, if you don't put emphasis on sync and other skills that 'great' amv-makers have, then that's your choice and preference. If it takes 100+ hrs to make something to take pride in, then that's fine. If it takes a few hours to make something you enjoy watching and think others may enjoy watching, then that's also fine. Share it for people to enjoy, but don't expect a warm reception from those for whom editing is a key factor to that enjoyment.
I enjoy every video I've made, even the horridly edited lacking any and all sync with random clips videos. And if I shared one and got a harsh review I would ask this: "If the clip is random, what clip would you suggest might have worked better for the concept? If the sync is off, where would you suggest I have tightened the sync? If it sucks completely, what would you suggest I do to keep it from sucking? If scrapping the idea completely is the only answer, then thanks anyway, I'll hold to my own preferences." And then it's done. ^_^
As you also stated, we are all entitled to our opinion and thus even if you are happy with it and had fun, don't always expect people to like it. At the same time, as you said, don't care what others think. If you're happy...you're happy.
What I'm getting at is that perhaps you misinterpretted what I was saying because the vast majority of what you are saying is the same stuff I preach at the AMV panels I've run and I am a firm believer in.
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
- Kegger007
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 3:45 pm
- Location: Canada (under the toque store)
Alright. This is the final post on this thread. I realize that my choice of words was not the best to use. Many AMV makers out there would be offended by my comments. I think Arigatomyna hit the nail on the head. I should've ignored the post and moved on. You havn't seen my earlier works so you don't know that I am new to this. I only took exception to the point that I threw random clips at a song. I didn't. I took the time to go through and find clips that would fit the best (it was a difficult song to work with, but fun). My comments were out of line and I guess seeing a blatant review like that was a shock. But that's how it is I suppose. Usually one expects some good comments, and once again Arigatomyna had the right idea. Constructive criticism works better than outright harshness. Next time I'll take Arigatomyna's advice and just not worry about it. I realize that I kinda tread on those who really work hard for their vids, and this turned into a flame war kinda thing. I only want to see less flames for the newer editors who don't have all the newest editing skills, and more helpful hints on how to use programs better, and where to use effects.
And as for the passage with Phade's AMV making thing. I didn't make this to look cool. I made it because I like anime.
Once again, sorry for all the trouble I caused. I hope all the editing experts out there can forgive me.
And as for the passage with Phade's AMV making thing. I didn't make this to look cool. I made it because I like anime.
Once again, sorry for all the trouble I caused. I hope all the editing experts out there can forgive me.
Current Vids
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=20305" target="_blank" class="postlink">The Paradox Of A Soldier</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=20744" target="_blank" class="postlink">Through The Eyes: A FLAWed Story</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=22322" target="_blank" class="postlink">Hidden Beginnings</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=20305" target="_blank" class="postlink">The Paradox Of A Soldier</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=20744" target="_blank" class="postlink">Through The Eyes: A FLAWed Story</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=22322" target="_blank" class="postlink">Hidden Beginnings</a>
- dbz_doomrider
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:29 am
- Location: walmart
- Contact:
Heh...thanks ^_^.....And keep in mind who you're talking with here. One of those two has an amv that has received great reviews - I've seen it, it was great.
I hope you note also, Kegger, that even if a song is original, you have to think whether it really BELONGS to the anime or not....instead of thinking to yourself that the song is always going to work, you just need the clips, you have to find the glove that forms perfectly to the fit the hand. Comfortable, elegant, supporting your ideas, thats what you want. Even if you are having fun with it, you want something bareable to watch after all.
- dokool
- Sir Gaijin Smash
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:12 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Contact:
- dwchang
- Sad Boy on Site
- Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
First off, don't get all "I'm a lowly n00b" or whatever...one thing I dislike on the .org is people getting all haughty about their skills and whatnot. We all do this for fun and it doesn't matter if your work is "OMG Awesome" or what...if you're having fun (as I said), it's a success no matter what anyone said.Kegger007 wrote:Alright. This is the final post on this thread. I realize that my choice of words was not the best to use. Many AMV makers out there would be offended by my comments. I think Arigatomyna hit the nail on the head. I should've ignored the post and moved on. You havn't seen my earlier works so you don't know that I am new to this. I only took exception to the point that I threw random clips at a song. I didn't. I took the time to go through and find clips that would fit the best (it was a difficult song to work with, but fun). My comments were out of line and I guess seeing a blatant review like that was a shock. But that's how it is I suppose. Usually one expects some good comments, and once again Arigatomyna had the right idea. Constructive criticism works better than outright harshness. Next time I'll take Arigatomyna's advice and just not worry about it. I realize that I kinda tread on those who really work hard for their vids, and this turned into a flame war kinda thing. I only want to see less flames for the newer editors who don't have all the newest editing skills, and more helpful hints on how to use programs better, and where to use effects.
And as for the passage with Phade's AMV making thing. I didn't make this to look cool. I made it because I like anime.
Once again, sorry for all the trouble I caused. I hope all the editing experts out there can forgive me.
As for reviews, yes I agree...even if I dislike a video, I will give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism in hopes that it will help them. Hell, you should see how lengthy my reviews are. So yeah, you're right in this, you have the right to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism as opposed to outright flames.
So in conclusion, there is no "right" or "wrong" way about it. Dont' give some of us big heads about our abilities...in the end it's all trivial and all about having fun. Someone who makes a Linkin Park/DBZ video and has fun is the same as someone who makes a video with 10 series, massive compositing and effects that has fun.
At the same time, what I was getting at is that you came across really mean towards those of us who take more pride in our work. Given, you've apologized and I accept that.
So all is good

-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
- Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
You guys don't know how relieved I am that not one of you took me the wrong way. I *do* respect both dwchang and dbz_doomrider, I haven't gotten the chance to see dwchang's vids (and I *have* planned to), but I've only heard great things about them. And I'm glad Kegger knew I was only trying to smooth things down and maybe be of some help. It's too easy to take things personal and be harsh in reaction. If I was a good editor, I'd probably be just as judgemental when watching vids - but I'm not. So I focus more on the idea. It really reminds me of the 'effects-sync-theme' discussion going on in the General AMV section, some of the issues raised in this thread. But they're all besides the point. I'm just glad no one's angry at me. ^_^;
[And as a quick note to Dokool...I really wish you hadn't said that...just when things were going better. But to each his own, it's your opinion. I hold no songs or animes sacred, and so I can handle a parody of any.]
[And as a quick note to Dokool...I really wish you hadn't said that...just when things were going better. But to each his own, it's your opinion. I hold no songs or animes sacred, and so I can handle a parody of any.]
- dokool
- Sir Gaijin Smash
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:12 pm
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Contact:
'Tis a fine line between holding sacred and having a sense of humor. Had the vid been any good, I'm could laugh about it. However...Arigatomyna wrote:[And as a quick note to Dokool...I really wish you hadn't said that...just when things were going better. But to each his own, it's your opinion. I hold no songs or animes sacred, and so I can handle a parody of any.]
- dwchang
- Sad Boy on Site
- Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
- Location: Madison, WI
- Contact:
You have? From who? I'm going to go kill themArigatomyna wrote:You guys don't know how relieved I am that not one of you took me the wrong way. I *do* respect both dwchang and dbz_doomrider, I haven't gotten the chance to see dwchang's vids (and I *have* planned to), but I've only heard great things about them.

Respect me? Bah!

So i'm the one that apparently who knows enough to be a judge? Wow...you *really* do have too high an opinion of me

Yeah I was going to say the same thing since that discussion is going on, but whateva. As for things cooling down, I think you think poorly of the community in general (given at times I feel the same way). I know that at least with my post, I wasn't aiming to really ignite anything and if I had, I'd like to think I'd try to keep it under control. At the same time, from the posts from DBZ_DoomRider, I know that he's a fairly logical fellow too.Arigatomyna wrote:And I'm glad Kegger knew I was only trying to smooth things down and maybe be of some help. It's too easy to take things personal and be harsh in reaction. If I was a good editor, I'd probably be just as judgemental when watching vids - but I'm not. So I focus more on the idea. It really reminds me of the 'effects-sync-theme' discussion going on in the General AMV section, some of the issues raised in this thread. But they're all besides the point. I'm just glad no one's angry at me. ^_^;
So yeah...don't worry about us.
As for being a good editor and judging, I don't think that has anything to do with judging. I think people can tell when something is "good" or "bad" because well...things like that are a PERSONAL opinion there's no real set criteria.
Given I guess I'm contradicting myself since with reviews all of the scores are (other than 1) ARE technical (yes even overall...Does it do what it sets out to do? Effective? etc?), but we're talking about if you like something or not right? No one can really argue against you if you think something is good or bad right?
At the same time, something I think a lot of people need to do when reviewing is to *try* and be unbiased. When I review, I *try* my very best to look at the video...the concept...the follow-through and not trivial things like...I hate this song or I hate this genre. I've seen TONS of videos who use a song I hate, but they are done SO well, I can't help but say it's a good video.
Reading over this, I have no idea where I am going and how I got so off-topic (with reviewing)..I think I'm going to stop and say that there are no qualification for judging a video....there I said it in one sentence

Arigatomyna wrote:[And as a quick note to Dokool...I really wish you hadn't said that...just when things were going better. But to each his own, it's your opinion. I hold no songs or animes sacred, and so I can handle a parody of any.]
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space