Where: #amv-review server irc.zirc.org (web client)
When: Every Monday, 21:00 EDT (9pm)
Thank you to everyone who submitted video suggestions, please keep on sending em in! Check the FAQ at the bottom of the post for instructions
This week's video:
Link: Taema Dreiden - 2007 - Cyber Sense
Editor: Taema Dreiden (Taema)
Category: Romance / Drama
Anime: Ghost in the Shell [Spoilers]
Song: Roxette - Queen of Rain
Tags: [Nudity] [Mild Gore]
To participate:
Please download the video, write an opinion for it, then continue the discussion here. If you just feel like contributing without reading the IRC log that's OK.
IRC Log of discussion (see first reply for Quadir's Highlights):
Participants: aesling, godix, G_Q (GloryQuestor - John Wendel), inthesto (Alex Ying), Kionon, quadir (Olivier Beaton), Reigna (Gina Pagán), shumira_chan, szwagier (Paul Gaska), Teya, trythil
Bonus Video:Edited IRC Log wrote:21:05 <quadir> I'd like to thank everyone who submitted videos, from other's videos they thought were worth discussing to their own they maybe wanted people to take a serious look at. We narrowed it down to 4 videos and in the end Taema Dreiden's "Cyber Sense" video won out for this week.
21:05 <quadir> Video: Taema Dreiden - 2007 - Cyber Sense
21:05 <quadir> Link: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=141196
21:05 <quadir> Editor: Taema Dreiden (Taema)
21:05 <quadir> Category: Romance
21:05 <quadir> Anime: Ghost in the Shell [Spoilers]
21:05 <quadir> Song: Roxette - Queen of Rain
21:05 <quadir> Tags: [Nudity] [Mild Gore]
21:07 -!- shumira_chan has joined #amv-review
21:11 <shumira_chan> Is this suggestion time? Or has the AMV been decided?
21:11 <quadir> suggestion time was all week
21:11 <quadir> like the thread said
21:11 <quadir> http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=141196
21:11 <quadir> is the video that ended up getting chosen at the end
21:11 <quadir> we have a few suggestions, and you're welcome to put on in for next week
21:18 -!- Fire_Starter has joined #amv-review
21:19 < Fire_Starter> if itll load...stupid connection :(
21:20 -!- godix has joined #amv-review
21:20 <quadir> Fire_Starter: vid is 40mb even, tiny! :)
21:20 <Fire_Starter> im well aware of that
21:20 <godix> It says a lot that these days 40 meg is called 'tiny'
21:20 <quadir> yeah but this isn't rm
21:20 -!- G_Q-Away has joined #amv-review
21:20 <quadir> we're a step up from those days, wmv
21:21 * G_Q-Away is getting now.
21:25 <Teya> were there digital effects? i couldn't tell..
21:25 <Teya> not sure whether to rate that low or n/a
21:25 <quadir> fades and transparencies
21:25 <Fire_Starter> right
21:25 <Teya> or maybe high if they were well blended in, i guess..
21:25 <Teya> hm
21:25 <Kionon> I'd need to look at the source material, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
21:25 <Fire_Starter> anything other than a straight cut = effect
21:25 <Teya> a'ight
21:25 <quadir> the green effects are from the gits movie itself
21:26 <quadir> so don't count those
21:26 <Teya> ah, thanks
21:26 <quadir> but you can if he's sync'ed em well
21:26 <G_Q-Away> No added effects afaics
21:26 <quadir> G_Q-Away: transparencies
21:26 <G_Q-Away> Other than dissolves.
21:26 <Teya> i see a bunch of fades
21:26 <Teya> yeah
21:27 <Kionon> Uh, what about the green wormhole effect?
21:27 <quadir> I'm pretty sure that's in the dvd, but I can't remember
21:27 <Teya> 1:35?
21:27 <Kionon> approximately.
21:27 <quadir> but I mean if you're going to use it in a video, you have to sync it well or it counts as an effect you used badly
21:27 <Teya> and green outline at 1:42?
21:27 <Kionon> 01:31-01:41
21:28 <G_Q-Away> Yeah, that's in the movie.
21:28 <Teya> okay
21:28 <G_Q-Away> That's when Motoko dives into the Puppet Master.
21:28 <Kionon> I called it breathtaking, but I haven't seen it in years.
21:28 <Teya> not counting as effect
21:28 <Kionon> But the timing was still good.
21:28 <Kionon> Awesome, in fact
21:29 <G_Q-Away> Are dissolves still considered "digital effects"?
21:29 <quadir> I really like the whole 1:05 - 10:20 sequence
21:29 <G_Q-Away> I thought effects other than those were "effects".
21:29 <Kionon> Depends. RTF industry says yes.
21:29 <godix> It's been awhile since I've seen GITS but it wasn't overly focused on love was it?
21:29 <quadir> G_Q-Away: if it's done really well or times somehow I'd count it, otherwise it's just whatever normal
21:30 <quadir> godix: I would say it wasn't at all
21:30 <godix> Ok, so does anyone have any idea why this song was matched with this anime?
21:30 <G_Q-Away> godix: I was thinking the same. 2nd GiG is more appropriate for the theme, but that's just IMHO.
21:30 <Kionon> I love it, actually.
21:31 <quadir> 3:16 has a really well done transparency/fade
21:31 <G_Q-Away> I still have to Op, then I'll comment.
21:31 <Kionon> I'm still opping.
21:31 * quadir nods.
21:31 <Kionon> It's made of long and verbose.
21:31 <quadir> I'm still the only one with an op in, but I cheated :)
21:32 <shumira_chan> Mood AMV with a hint of lyrical sync and wisp of beat sync near the end
21:32 <Kionon> wisp?
21:32 <Kionon> Are we watching the same video?
21:32 <godix> Did he try lipsyncing and fail or did he just ahve an accidental bad lipsync happen?
21:32 <quadir> but I'd have to agree
21:32 <Kionon> It's just lip flap.
21:33 <quadir> that a bit of beat sync could of helped the video out
21:33 <shumira_chan> Unintentional lip flapping
21:33 <Kionon> a bit?
21:33 <quadir> I saw tons of mood sync but very little beat sync
21:33 <Kionon> I name like ten examples at least of appropriate beat sync.
21:33 <quadir> like even look at the opening sequence
21:33 <quadir> where she looks over while floating on her back
21:33 <quadir> we get a scene change
21:34 <quadir> THEN the beat comes in
21:34 <quadir> when we're on the other character
21:34 <Kionon> The scene change isn't the sync.
21:34 <Kionon> It's door, then heart.
21:34 <quadir> so the emphasis ends up on him
21:34 <shumira_chan> Beat sync is clearly not the editor's priority, no point in dwelling on that IMO...
21:35 <godix> This video does beat sync the way slow dramas SHOULD do it. It doesn't try to hit ever damned note, it doesn't beat you upside the head with something that blatently screams 'HI! I'M BEAT SYNC!', but it is there if you look for it and it does help the flow of the video.
21:35 <Kionon> Godix. My God.
21:35 <Kionon> Do we AGREE?
21:35 <Kionon> Because that's basically my point.
21:35 <Fire_Starter> log = fukken saved! :P
21:35 <godix> Kionon: On the beat sync, apparently. On liking the video? No.
21:35 <Teya> i would also agree on beat sync
21:35 <quadir> I find it funny everyone has not cursed in here about the mp4 logo
21:36 <quadir> which is just inexcusable
21:36 <Teya> lol
21:36 <quadir> especially since that perticular one is so damn annoying with the perforated film
21:36 <Teya> i hadn't actually noticed
21:36 <godix> Quadir: I figure the shitty quality and logo is easily explained by the fact they obviously used a downlaoded version. It's not worth throwing a fit over
21:36 <Kionon> I'm bitching about AR right now.
21:36 <shumira_chan> The subdued lyric sync is more interesting, although perhaps a bit more would have been nice
21:36 <shumira_chan> Logos/quality should not matter when reviewing an AMV
21:36 <Kionon> Lyric sync was treated metaphorically, which is right and proper.
21:37 <godix> Well since I can't give ops I'll just babble in here instead
21:37 <quadir> godix: 1 2 3 GO
21:37 <godix> Quality - 4 or 5. Obviously downloaded footage.
21:37 <godix> sound - My speakers suck. I could hear the song. It didn't sound anymore fucked than anything else I listen to. It's fine
21:38 <Kionon> I downed video quality too.
21:38 <Kionon> My lowest score I think.
21:38 <godix> originality - There's nothing I haven't seen before. That's not neccesarily bad, but it isn't very original.
21:38 <Kionon> A five, if I recall.
21:38 <Fire_Starter> so WMV = WMM as editing software....does that lose points? :P
21:38 <quadir> godix: hm, you've seen gits romance vids before?
21:38 <Kionon> No.
21:38 <quadir> Fire_Starter: no
21:38 <Kionon> I don't rate based on container.
21:38 <godix> sync - 7 or so. Subtile sync is there but nothing spectacular. Which is fine, not everything needs Euphoria like sync.
21:38 <quadir> Fire_Starter: what you do with it, not how big your suite is :)
21:39 <Teya> my bias upped the originality.. i haven't seen many vids with that kind of song
21:39 <quadir> Fire_Starter: but you can op however you want :)
21:39 <godix> quadir: No. But I've seen romance vids before and this added nothing to it. Originality is NOT plugging in a different anime to the same old same old.
21:39 <shumira_chan> Lyric sync was nice, but why GitS? It seems like the editor thought it a challenge to make a GiTS amv.
21:39 <godix> effort - He spent some. he should have spent more on the video quality but there was some here.
21:39 <godix> review - no. Just no. It bored the hell out of me.
21:40 <Kionon> I liked it. A lot. Review is high for me.
21:40 <godix> Overall - Better than ramonesfan. Not good enough for me to bother following this persons future videos.
21:40 <Teya> i almost stopped watching at 3:30
21:40 <Teya> too slow for me
21:40 <quadir> hm, it is true the song is really slow
21:40 <quadir> like a poem that never dies
21:40 <Teya> yep
21:40 <Teya> just went on and on
21:41 <quadir> 'Riker, you have anticipated my denouman (sp), I will continue.'
21:41 <godix> When a video starts going over 4 minutes it had been be pretty god damned entertaining. I don't have the shortest attention span around but still, if I feel like checking the timeline to see how much more of this there is then there is a problem.
21:42 -!- szwagier has joined #amv-review
21:42 <quadir> godix: except for the tank scene as a action sequence and the falling into traffic invisiblity thing.. I'm not sure I've really seen a lot of these scenes in most gits videos
21:42 <godix> quadir: originality is more than plugging a different anime into the same old formula.
21:43 <szwagier> kk , downloading :]
21:43 <quadir> godix: you just said that it was the same old scenes though
21:44 <quadir> so the pacing was really slow, but thankfully the video didn't try to speed it up artificially
21:44 <quadir> I'm really liking the first car sequeunce from 0:46 - 0:58
21:44 <quadir> then the whiteout during the "whooosh"
21:45 <godix> quadir: No I didn't. I meant it was the same old style of video. Lots of slow background shots. Lots of shots of the characters staring off at nothing. No clue given at all WTF is happening for people who haven't seen the show already. It's the typical drama. I could find hundreds of videos just like it but using other source.
21:45 <Kionon> That's my favorite part.
21:45 <Kionon> The car part.
21:45 <quadir> but the slow lights flickering
21:45 <quadir> just reminds me of "This video is a total waste of 5 minutes....etc" with the telephone poles
21:45 <quadir> and I loved that :)
21:46 <Teya> but that was.. parody
21:46 <quadir> godix: I've been watching a lot of romance vids of late and most seem to just throw in the character kissing over and over and over and falling into each other's arms
21:46 <godix> That video was great because the editor intended it to be boring. The editor of this one didn't intend that.
21:46 <Teya> ^^ exactly
21:46 <Kionon> Done and posted.
21:46 <godix> quadir: Despite the song, this is a drama video not a romance video.
21:46 <quadir> I didn't find it boring though ;(
21:46 <quadir> godix: your right on all the slow background shots though, and the characters looking around at nothing
21:46 <Teya> i didn't find it boring enough to hate it, but i did feel it should be shorter
21:47 <quadir> maybe after watching so many vids of people kissing from frame 1 it made fo ra nice change
21:47 <shumira_chan> It seems to be the editor's first AMV. I think the editor was true to himself, it's (intentionally) not a crowd-pleaser.
21:48 <godix> And, on a vaugely related topic, almost every romance video that starts off with kissing will suck. You're supposed to build up to that shit not lead off with it. It'd be like if OMGs first scene was Keichi and Belladandy naked in a futon and saying 'I love you'. It jsut doesn't work.
21:49 <quadir> of course it's kind of impossible with gits
21:49 <shumira_chan> Where is this rant about romance AMVs coming from?
21:49 <quadir> shumira_chan: I categorized the vid as 'romance'
21:49 -!- Fire_Starter has left #amv-review
21:49 <quadir> and asked if he'd seen any other romance gits vids
21:50 <godix> Oh, one other way this video sucked, the last minute adds absolutely nothing to the video. His highlight is her fading away around the four minute mark. Everything after that is pointless filler.
21:50 <Kionon> See, I knew someone would say that.
21:50 <Kionon> I even addressed it.
21:50 <quadir> isn't it more of a flashback type thing?
21:50 <Kionon> "Although not entirely in the same category, I did like the last minute or so of rain scenes of the city. Some may complain that such doesn't actually fit, but I disagree. I think it went well."
21:51 <godix> quadir: How is it a flashback when for almost a minute neither of the main characters even appear much less do anything?
21:51 <Kionon> It was an appropriate ending.
21:51 <quadir> godix: its like that slow walk through the cemetary at the end of the movie
21:51 <godix> Kionon: It was decently edited filler, although the editing wasn't great, but it was still pointless filler.
21:52 <quadir> we have her "going to heaven" around 3:30 - 3:45
21:52 <quadir> then the rest is 'the walk home' afterwards
21:52 <quadir> and at places like 4:02 we have flashes back to her
21:53 <quadir> considering the video STARTED establishing the characters with him driving thinking about her
21:53 <quadir> after she dies we have a stormy dark scenes going through the city
21:53 <godix> I think the final shot should have been her fading away around four minutes. That repeats and reinforces the going away thing that started at 3:30 or so.
21:53 <G_Q-Away> "The video is nice at the start, but starts to cool by the middle and just fizzles at the end."
21:53 <G_Q-Away> That's pretty much how I summed it up.
21:54 <G_Q-Away> While a nice idea, I thought it would have been better if they stuck with the romantic elements they began with.
21:54 <Kionon> There wasn't much to go on in the movie, iirc.
21:55 <G_Q-Away> Instead, it just degenerates into digital stuff and all sorts of action scenes.
21:55 <shumira_chan> Does this discussion even have a point without the editor participating?
21:55 <quadir> that's his fault for picking it though
21:55 <Kionon> Yes, it does.
21:55 <G_Q-Away> Kio: There was the marketplace scene.
21:55 <quadir> although as a Alternate Universe VID lack of available footage can be impressive, but I'd lean towards it not mattering as much
21:55 <godix> shumira_chan: Not really. Gives you a chance to improve in evaluating AMVs I guess. If you care about that as all.
21:55 <G_Q-Away> There was plenty there to work with and add to, but the video makes little if any use of that sequence.
21:56 <Kionon> It's to show the differences in how we as editors and as viewers differs.
21:56 <Kionon> That was redundant.
21:56 <quadir> shumira_chan: yes, we like talking about videos, we're talking about vids. :) an edited log gets posted later for people who missed it to participate, and the editor can read it if they like
21:56 <godix> Also a trivial point I'm just curious about, does seeing her nipples violate the nudity rules of the org?
21:57 <Kionon> I mean to say, we all have differing perspectives, and I know, although this is not quadir's intent, that we will be better editors for having the discussion.
21:57 <quadir> shumira_chan: don't you find it weird on a site dedicated to amv's with a 1:6 viewer:editor ratio nobody really talks about vids? well here it is :)
21:57 <G_Q-Away> godix: Well, depends if skin-tight suits are allowed or not.
21:57 <G_Q-Away> In most of those sequences, she's wearing the therm-optic camo.
21:58 <G_Q-Away> So, you can see them, but they aren't exposed per se.
21:58 -!- Reigna has joined #amv-review
21:58 <quadir> godix: I doupt it, sailor moon, gits and eva nudity is OLD
21:59 <quadir> G_Q-Away: I'm not sure that counts
21:59 <shumira_chan> I think the discussion would be much more interesting if the editor could explain and/or defend his/her choices, though
21:59 <quadir> shumira_chan: it's not a Q&A :) but they can reply to the thread and be constructive, and they can reply to individual ops
21:59 <godix> depends on the editor. Some get might defensive. Others just get bitchy and egotistical.
21:59 <quadir> shumira_chan: but that's part of the reason we leave ops
21:59 <Kionon> I disagree,
22:00 <Kionon> But then I am not surprised.
22:00 <quadir> shumira_chan: what was your favorite part in the video?
22:01 <shumira_chan> I felt that, for better or for worse, the editor was making the video he wanted to make, with little concession to what people might think about it
22:02 <Kionon> Shumira: And I think that should be rewarded.
22:02 <Kionon> I thought the emotional aspect came through spectacularly.
22:04 <quadir> shumira_chan: nod, but what part did you like most?
22:05 <quadir> shumira_chan: you, personnaly
22:06 <shumira_chan> It's not an AMV that lends itself to be evaluated in chunks (actually, I never do that). Overall I didn't care much for the video, but I respect the creator's intentions.
22:08 <szwagier> ok op done. My first and overall thought is - it lacks the inside story, and that kills it :S
22:08 <quadir> szwagier: inside story?
22:08 <quadir> szwagier: like trying to relate it to the actual plot in the gits movie?
22:08 <shumira_chan> BTW, I think the vids should be announced somewhat earlier, maybe the day previous.
22:08 <szwagier> well the connection between scenes is more from gits then from some story inside.
22:09 <szwagier> If i hadn't watch gits it would be complete random with "sentimental" theme
22:09 <quadir> shumira_chan: the worry is that if that's done people will feel it's stale and not worth discussion anymore or that it will have already taken place, say on the forums
22:10 <godix> szwagier: I thought that at first but on after thought if you ignore the last minute it's fairly straightforward. Man & woman like each other. Woman dies.
22:12 <shumira_chan> I don't think we should care about it becoming "stale"... but it's OK then, no big deal.
22:12 <szwagier> godix: well showing just man and woman watching something with a distant look or riding a car isn't showing too much of their love
22:12 <quadir> szwagier: song's mood helps
22:12 <quadir> szwagier: sortof ties it all together I thought
22:13 <quadir> shumira_chan: you're right I might be paranoid there, in any case some clear 'downloading time' is in order
22:13 <szwagier> agree, but it does not come from the scenes. It's more of a guessing from the song
22:14 <godix> szwagier: Yeah, the scenes don't support what he was trying to present.
22:14 <quadir> well, to be fair s/he didn't say it was romance
22:14 <quadir> they categorized it as 'other'
22:15 <quadir> but I don't know wtf that really means really
22:15 <quadir> and this is clearly something
22:15 <quadir> sentimental/drama/romance something
22:15 <shumira_chan> I think this is what "romance" looks like in the GitS world: dysfunctional.
22:15 <quadir> I thought I felt the whole relationship thing
22:15 <quadir> I mean we have her looking at him at the beginning
22:16 <quadir> then she's waking up in the house in his bed, and we see her being constructed
22:16 <quadir> a few more "water" shots to tie in the beginning
22:16 <quadir> and then you're at the battle where she dies
22:17 <szwagier> it would be nice if creator could talk with us here. I mean the AMV should defend it itself, but knowing creator intentions would be also nice
22:17 <quadir> nod, if they show they show
22:17 <shumira_chan> What? Someone agrees with me? What's wrong?
22:17 <quadir> but this person for example doesn't even visit the forums, and as godix mentioned not everyone is very good at discussing such things when it's "theirs"
22:18 <quadir> look in announcement threads
22:18 <trythil> it would also be entertaining to shoot down the editor.
22:18 <quadir> at people who try to give op-like feedback
22:18 <trythil> I mean, uh, discuss with them.
22:18 <shumira_chan> Was this vid not suggested by the editor? Sorry, I was late, how was it chosen?
22:18 <quadir> I'd say 80% of the time they get torn appart for saying something other then "omg so awesome"
22:18 <quadir> trythil: haha nt we didn't :)
22:18 <quadir> trythil: much less so then last week even
22:19 <trythil> oh neat
22:19 <godix> That is true. It's not nearly as satisfying to tear apart the editors work when he isn't there to get pissed off by it.
22:19 <szwagier> also i don't like th ending. it should end about 10-20 seconds after she died, cuz (while it's done not badly) it brings nothing new to the video. it looks more as if creator didn't want to cut the song, so the ending was there
22:20 <quadir> shumira_chan: we take submission for videos all week, which includes people recommending other people's videos
22:20 <trythil> godix: good point
22:20 <shumira_chan> But how is the final choice made? Just curious...
22:20 <quadir> shumira_chan: then at the end of the week the mods narrow it down to 1 vid based not on wether we like it or not but on if we think it has enough breath to be discussed
22:22 <quadir> szwagier: it's true a lot more people should cut their songs instead of going for filler
22:22 <shumira_chan> I see. Having the editor around would be nice. Maybe we could tra^H^H^H review some vid of a current participant... at least we know the person is around and (presumably) cares. Also, we lead by example, yes?
22:23 <quadir> shumira_chan: like I mentioned earlier, 6 to 1 viewers to editors on the org
22:23 <quadir> shumira_chan: you're not guarenteed participants have videos
22:25 <quadir> if you hate watching amv's then I doupt you could contribute much to the discussion
22:25 <trythil> not really, but
22:25 <szwagier> i wonder would it be possible to choose the video one day earlier and write a pm to creator so he would had a chance to show up. Ofc some do not log frequently, but its still a niceoption imho
22:25 <trythil> anyway, I'll grab that vid now, since render has completed
22:25 <quadir> szwagier: that's a decent idea
22:26 <quadir> szwagier: I just look at the amv announcement forum and think 'do I really want most of those people in here?' :)
22:26 <quadir> I think godix had a good point about a lot of editors if they are there.. would feel like they had to respond to every single comment made
22:26 <quadir> and defend every single point
22:27 <szwagier> well if the creator is willing to get the critics then he will listen, if not than he will be flame, that ir all to that
22:27 <quadir> and would take offence or even make personnal atacks
22:27 <shumira_chan> I think people should defend their works... why not?
22:27 <quadir> szwagier: if he puts his video up on the org, then he can take opinions
22:28 <quadir> wether he specificly wanted 'mine' or not :)
22:28 <quadir> shumira_chan: yes but the discussion isn't meant to be a q&a with the creator, that's all
22:28 <szwagier> shumira_chan: yeah, they should but there is a difference between defending and blindly defending :]
22:28 <Kionon> I know I would.
22:28 <Kionon> And have.
22:28 <Kionon> Let's be honest.
22:28 <quadir> I think it would suck if it's a creator->viewer type environment, and I shouldn't have to feel like I have to direct all my comments at the editor
22:29 <Kionon> Who wouldn't defend their own work?
22:29 <quadir> anwyays, if the editor doesn't show up, they can defend it on an individual basis per op
22:29 <quadir> or in the forum thread after
22:29 <godix> Kionon: Me. For 75% of the videos I've made chances are I'd just nod my head and go 'you're right' when someone points out a problem in it.
22:29 <quadir> I'll think more about warning them ahead of time though
22:29 <shumira_chan> Well, there's "defending" and "explaining" I won't pretend to understand an editor's full intentions (if any!)
22:29 <quadir> we did get some submissions from editors for their own videos
22:30 <quadir> and they were considered as much as the rest were
22:30 <szwagier> Kionon: well but don't you have parts in you vid that you aren't completely satisfied with? cuz it's impossible to defend thing you aren't sure about yourself
22:31 <Kionon> szwagier: depends on the vid.
22:31 <godix> quadir: Somethign you might want to consider, if you find an editor willing, is doing this to betas. Then the suggestions/complaints can actually be addressed before release.
22:31 <Kionon> SOBE is irreproachable. It was executed exactly as I storyboarded it.
22:31 <shumira_chan> I think that if the editor is willing to participate it makes things much more interesting... whether it turns into a Q&A or not, well, we'd have to see that, no?
22:32 <shumira_chan> Real men don't make betas :)
22:32 <Kionon> shumira_chan: let's be realistic.
22:32 <godix> shumira_chan: Real men don't spend their time chopping up cartoons and jacking off to sailor moon. I have yet to meet a real man on the org. Besides myself.
22:33 <shumira_chan> Hey, sailor moon is _hot_
22:40 -!- inthesto has joined #amv-review
22:40 <inthesto> MOre like #amv-review-shirtless
22:40 <Kionon> oh noes sto striptease
22:40 -!- aesling has joined #amv-review
22:41 <aesling> wow, this thing is still going?
22:41 <Kionon> Yep.
22:41 <Kionon> As long as people keep coming in every five minutes.
22:41 <quadir> it petered off around 10pm but people keep dropping in
22:41 <godix> Most of us finished awhile ago. feel free to pile on and tell this guy why he sucks though.
22:41 <quadir> lol
22:41 <quadir> godix: me and kionon liked him :)
22:41 <quadir> and a few people liked it minus the last minute
22:42 <trythil> godix, not mincing words since 2000
22:43 <quadir> godix: a serious discussion on an amv does not mean you have to be Simon Cowell with every sentence :)
22:43 <inthesto> Hey, it's the Major.
22:43 <inthesto> She's hot.
22:43 <quadir> that is hardly the point :)
22:43 <inthesto> I like this video so far.
22:43 <inthesto> But what in the hell is this watermark.
22:44 <godix> inthesto: He used downloaded footage.
22:44 <quadir> inthesto: yeah I couldnt believe the watermark either...
22:44 <quadir> godix: why would downloaded footage show mpeg4?
22:45 <godix> quadir: If you pay attention the watermark fades when he fades out the picture. It's part of the source, not something added by his encoder.
22:45 <Kionon> quadir: it was on
22:45 <quadir> godix: I mean he could rip from dvd, encode it so it's editable on his hd size... then have some weird codec installed that watermarked it and he forgot/did'nt know how to turn it off
22:45 * Reigna just finished watching the GITS vid
22:46 <shumira_chan> Does it matter (for the purpose of this discussion) where he got the footage from?
22:46 <trythil> who is Simon Cowell?
22:46 <quadir> trythil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Cowell
22:46 <godix> quadir: Technically possible but the poor footage quality and the fact that watermark is part of the source rather than his final encoder indicates downloaded footage.
22:46 <godix> shumira_chan: Technically yes, downloaded footage is a no-no for the org. Realistically, it doesn't matter but does explain the poor video quality.
22:47 <trythil> oh
22:47 <quadir> godix: you think the downloaded footage had it embedded in?
22:47 <szwagier> shumir_chan: nope, but evey water mars distracts a little (or more than a little) and thath affects how you view a video
22:47 * trythil clearly does not watch enough TV
22:47 <godix> quadir: Yes. Exactly.
22:47 <aesling> shumira_chan: yes, because it's one of the standards by which people judge videos
22:47 <quadir> godix: why? I mean it's not a group name
22:47 <quadir> it's mpeg4
22:47 <quadir> the codec his source was in
22:47 <quadir> or container or whatever
22:47 <godix> quadir: Whoever encodes his download encoded it with a foramt that displays that mark.
22:47 <quadir> seems far fetched
22:48 <quadir> people who have divx logo do not have divx logo in the episode they downloaded
22:48 <godix> Also note, his final encode is wmv format. WMM isn't known to put watermarks on the footage like that. Therefore it was put on the source before he edited it.
22:48 <quadir> and it fades with premier cause they made clips first
22:48 <quadir> then produced the video from there
22:48 <aesling> wait, I hope you're not saying he used premiere?
22:48 <quadir> godix: yes I agree that it was part of the source he edited... I just think it's like the divx logo, which fades with editor effects
22:48 <quadir> aesling: nono sorry
22:49 <inthesto> Okay, my first impression is that this is pretty good
22:49 <szwagier> well either way it's there in final product - so whether it was from footage or from weird codec it doesn't change that fact
22:49 <quadir> inthesto: some people tonight liked it, some people thought it meh, some people were bored to death
22:49 * aesling dumps some glacial ice on sto
22:49 <godix> quadir: It doesn't really matter. What does matter is that he has a watermark that he shouldn't and his video quality is poor. If it's because he ripped the DVD then encoded it into mpeg format that's just as big a problem as if he downloaded it.
22:49 <shumira_chan> Ok can buy the distraction argument (although personally I don't care), but source or quality should not really matter when judging an AMV...
22:49 <quadir> godix: nod
22:49 <godix> Also of note, mpeg really shouldn't be used to edit with. Editing programs don't like it much.
22:50 <aesling> shumira_chan: some of us enjoy watching videos with good visual quality. It just looks better
22:50 <godix> shumira_chan: quality doesn't matter? You watch your amvs on youtube a lot don't you?
22:50 <quadir> don't you dare bring youtube into this godix
22:50 <quadir> I'll +m faster then you can get kicked
22:50 <quadir> we ain't going down that road :)
22:50 <quadir> and no need to attack people here
22:50 <quadir> he made a valid point
22:51 <aesling> uh
22:51 <quadir> you can dock a video in vid quality for not getting rid of his logos
22:51 <trythil> oh wow, it's done
22:51 <quadir> but it shouldn't hurt the rest
22:51 <Reigna> Oh XD
22:51 <godix> quadir: I'm not attacking him. I'm indirectly pointing out that quality does matter for most of the org members and that's the biggest reason given for not liking youtube.
22:52 <inthesto> Okay, gonna watch this video again with a set of lyrics in front of me.
22:52 <quadir> inthesto: nod, if you can take the time to write him a short (or long) op, that would be great too
22:52 <aesling> quadir: quality can hurt the rest if it makes it so you don't enjoy watching it. Just saying
22:52 <quadir> but I definatly want to hear what you thought more detailed
22:53 <quadir> truthfully I didn't find the vid quality in the gits vid to be that low
22:53 <godix> Although, to be fair, the point where quality gets so low it actually kills the video for me is pretty damned low. I prefer high quality but I can settle for anything above the postage sized quicktime videos that were around in the 90's.
22:53 <shumira_chan> Vids from the early 90s look absolutely terrible, some are still the best.
22:53 <quadir> I mean most of my collection is pre "must be dvd" and people still don't really know how to process the video that well
22:53 <szwagier> Well if the quality is extremely bad it can affect view of AMV, but in here it was mediocre so it's not relevant.
22:53 <quadir> so I found the vid quality average - the logo
22:54 <shumira_chan> I know I'm in a small minority regarding quality, but that's not going to change: I think quality is overrated by "most" of the org.
22:54 <godix> quadir: The quality is actually below average. It's just the original sources quality was above average so knocking it down as much as he did still ends up looking acceptable.
22:54 <quadir> also who knows the guy could of captured his vhs tape of the movie
22:54 <quadir> and didn't want to shell out for the dvd
22:55 <quadir> and this is highly processed vhs footage
22:55 <quadir> but that is unlikely :)
22:55 <quadir> but yeah the quality debate is over I think
22:55 <quadir> quality is average/mediocre
22:55 <Reigna> Agreed
22:55 <aesling> |:
22:55 <Kionon> It's mediocre.
22:56 <quadir> I'm more interested in hearing from trythil, Reigna, aesling on the vid at this point
22:56 <Reigna> Just sthe lower side of mediocre >>
22:56 <quadir> and inthesto
22:56 <aesling> as soon as I can watch it, I'll let you know
22:56 <aesling> the download is being slow as hell
22:56 <godix> quality is like a set design of a movie. If everything else is there it's easy to live with it not being that good. If it fails in other ways then the quality is just one more annoying thing about it.
22:57 <trythil> I don't really get the video, but then again my understanding of the relationship between Batou and Motoko has been totally destroyed by the 238957248327489237974387 GitS spinoffs and other related merchandising
22:57 <quadir> trythil: well treat it as a AU vid
22:57 <quadir> trythil: alternate universe vid
22:57 <trythil> so I, like any other half-informed American, will blame rampant commercialism for my failure to understand
22:57 <inthesto> I'm going to go with the "I don't get this video" now that I watch it again
22:57 <quadir> I didn't really see a movie connection
22:58 <shumira_chan> I didn't say high quality isn't good. I said bad quality has no bearing on the artistic quality of an AMV (yes, I went there!)
22:58 <inthesto> Visually, the flow is pretty good
22:58 <inthesto> And at times it looks like it's supposed to be a romance video
22:58 <shumira_chan> I think people here agree the quality is mediocre. How that provides any insight into the vid is a mystery to me.
22:59 <inthesto> But the lyrics are awfully cryptic, and there are plenty of clips that don't really fit into anything.
22:59 <quadir> let's move on from the quality debate please guys
22:59 <aesling> why?
22:59 <aesling> people still have things to discuss
22:59 <quadir> because it's a dead horse at this point
22:59 <trythil> I disagree about the flow
22:59 <quadir> and they are repeating themselves
22:59 <trythil> the whole Motoko creation sequence doesn't seem to lead anywhere
23:00 <godix> shumira_chan: I don't know about others but seeing something with less than average video quality makes me think 'if he didn't spend the effort on something fairly basic like that then did he put any effort elsewhere?
23:00 <inthesto> trythil: Yeah, that part goes under my "doesn't really fit into anything" clause
23:00 <quadir> trythil: I think its the match to 'leads to your soul'
23:00 <trythil> i wonder if this is a precursor to a stroke
23:00 <godix> Quality isn't the be all end all, of all the categories in ops it's the least important I think. But it is an indication of how hard the editor worked on it.
23:00 <inthesto> On my first view though, it flowed nicely
23:00 <inthesto> Which was when I wasn't really paying attention to the lyrics
23:01 <trythil> quadir: that may be, but I don't see how that fits into anything
23:01 <shumira_chan> For the most part I agree that bad quality is a good indicator of lack of effort. Do you think that's the case here? Regardless of your personal opinion about the vid, do you not think the editor put a non-trivial amount of thought into the GitS vid?
23:01 <trythil> it's like stamping a picture onto a puzzle piece that doesn't fit with the rest of the puzzle
23:02 <szwagier> Well it's really strange situation cause the lyrics are what lead us to see it as romance, but the connection lyrics-anime is only from time to time
23:02 <trythil> sure it might be complete, but it doesn't fit
23:02 <trythil> in other words, it feels disconnected
23:02 <szwagier> so it couldn't go without them, but didn't use all it's potential either :S
23:02 <godix> shumira_chan: I think an experienced editor could have produced this video in an IC match (2 hours). I think a new editor probably put more effort than that into it but still, no, this video doesn't mark a high point in 'damn that took effort' for the org.
23:03 <inthesto> Dammit quadir, stop picking largely incoherent videos
23:03 <quadir> the more I watch this video the more I like the ending
23:03 <quadir> inthesto: submit more
23:03 <inthesto> Pretty good visual flow, but the lyrics are :psyduck:
23:04 <trythil> another example of that disconnect I think exists is at 3:35 - and what comes after that
23:04 <inthesto> But it's still an enigma to try to understand
23:04 <trythil> I see that going *somewhere*
23:04 <trythil> and then BAM
23:04 <trythil> Batou sorta lipsynced to a female vocal
23:04 <quadir> which could have made it
23:04 <trythil> in the car
23:04 <trythil> I mean, wtf
23:04 <quadir> 2 made it to the last 3 vids against this one
23:04 <quadir> trythil: lip flap :(
23:04 <trythil> I can think of about 5 ways to make that fit
23:04 <godix> quadir: But not, I note, the video you picked.
23:04 <quadir> trythil: I got thrown off by that
23:04 <trythil> but none of them feel like they work
23:04 <quadir> godix: nah ops picked
23:05 <quadir> godix: not just me :)
23:05 <quadir> godix: I'm expanding
23:05 -!- Kionon has joined #amv-review
23:05 <quadir> not really fair for it to be just me anyways :)
23:05 -!- mode/#amv-review [+oa Kionon Kionon] by ChanServ
23:05 <quadir> I could be biassed!
23:05 <godix> who picked?
23:05 <quadir> godix: me and kionon this week
23:05 <trythil> additionally, I submit that AMVs are -- when compared with the entire spectrum of human artwork -- very shallow
23:05 <quadir> based on a list of 10 videos
23:05 <aesling> well, just finished watching it
23:05 <trythil> so attempts to extract deep meaning from them tend to fail
23:05 <Kionon> We whittled it down.
23:06 <Reigna> me too, well for a second time though >>
23:06 <trythil> as such I'm going to stop trying to extract meanings from that jarring sequence and just keep watching
23:06 <godix> trythil: Out of idle curiosity, how many AMVs with deep meanings have you seen?
23:06 <quadir> trythil: well it doesn't have to be the deepest thing ever to gather some thought
23:06 <shumira_chan> It was his first vid, though... I still think he was making an honest effort, maybe I'm too naive.
23:06 <trythil> godix: subtle double meanings, a few
23:06 <aesling> And the lyrics and the footage didn't really seem to have much to do with each other. The lyrics made it about love, but the footage didn't drive thqat home at all
23:06 <quadir> shumira_chan: I don't think so
23:06 <trythil> godix: "deep" as in "would cause your classics professor to cream their pants", zero
23:07 <quadir> shumira_chan: a few people in here really liked the vid :) don't let godix drown you out
23:07 <aesling> so the concept could use work
23:07 <Reigna> The vid is pretty esoteric. Without seeing GITS this would have people pretty lost I think
23:07 <trythil> I also wonder if this is a guy
23:07 <trythil> but
23:07 <trythil> whatever
23:07 <inthesto> Guys don't make romance AMVs.
23:07 <quadir> I dunno I didn't connect it to gits at all really
23:07 <inthesto> I mean, seriously.
23:08 <trythil> so, here's the tl;dr version of my opinion
23:08 <quadir> Editor: Taema Dreiden (Taema)
23:08 <aesling> He also didn't utilize a lot of beats that could have made the vid a lot more...interesting, stronger
23:08 <inthesto> quad: Even not connecting it to the series, trying to extract any semblance of romance from it just makes my head spin
23:08 <godix> Ok, lets not get to far into the 'godix hates this' theme. I actually thought for a first effort it was decent but it's flaws outweighted the good and I wasn't impressed enough to follow this persons future videos. I'm not saying he's Sailor Earth here, the video was ok.
23:08 <quadir> we've been saying he all evening but...
23:08 <quadir> Editor: Taema Dreiden (Taema)
23:08 <shumira_chan> Not at all, godix states what he thinks.
23:08 <quadir> Taema... sounds female
23:08 <quadir> I dunno
23:09 <trythil> I feel stupid / and contagious / here we are now / entertain us
23:09 <trythil> there
23:09 <quadir> aesling: yeah I noticed that too... lots of mood sync but a few beat sync would of been nice
23:09 <trythil> my self-effacing opinion in four lines
23:09 <trythil> courtesy of Nirvana
23:09 <inthesto> That song's stupid.
23:09 <trythil> so am I
23:09 <trythil> so it fits
23:09 <aesling> he/she did sync a few of the strong beats towards the end, but then they gave up on it after a few beats
23:09 <aesling> it was like
23:09 <aesling> what
23:10 <aesling> so the vidoe ended up being pretty slow
23:10 <trythil> incidentally, those lyrics are why I can't stand to watch most of my older videos nowadays
23:10 <trythil> but
23:10 <trythil> yeah
23:10 <Reigna> I liked the sort of "frame" the video was in with the b/w scenes at the beginning and the end. Seemed to give that sense of closure
23:11 <Reigna> But I think that song should have been cut down >>
23:11 <trythil> I dunno. if this was meant to connect with GitS, I can sort of see it but I'm not very familiar with any subtlties of the relationship between Motoko and Batou that this video might be feeding on
23:11 <trythil> if this is alternate universe, there is a theme but I feel that the execution is very rough in quite a few places
23:11 <trythil> and that flow, therefore communication of that theme, suffers because of it
23:11 <aesling> well, iirc, their relationship in the movie was pretty ambigous anyway
23:12 <trythil> if this is slash, then Batou is one ugly woman
23:12 <trythil> etc
23:12 <aesling> so its not like there was much romance to work with in this movie to begin with
23:12 <Reigna> Yeah that's true
23:12 <shumira_chan> In the GitS universe "romance" is a very tenuous concept, it seems to me, and that's reflected in this vid.
23:12 <inthesto> Well, it seems like it's trying to make a "Batou pulls Makoto through tough times" connectoin
23:12 <inthesto> But it's not all there
23:13 <quadir> you know how a series has a 'flashback' ep at the very very end? This sortof felt like that for me
23:13 <quadir> but definatly AU for me
23:13 <aesling> so perhaps a romance vid was not the best choice for this movie, because there wasn't much to work with, which would make it really difficult to pull off
23:15 <aesling> there was some stuff in the middle that I thought did better with creating a mood
23:15 <quadir> but yeah so much of the movie Blade runner was establishing the world that they live in and how that contributed to who they were and how they led their lives
23:15 <quadir> I think the end of this video really pulls that off
23:15 <aesling> meh
23:15 <aesling> the ending of the video kind of lost me agian
23:15 <Reigna> I thought it was sort of unneccessary
23:15 <trythil> yes, except Blade Runner had a far more polished presentation
23:15 <trythil> and call me shallow
23:16 <trythil> but I believe that's extremely important in a highly visual medium
23:16 <godix> The video made no sense if you hadn't seen GITS. So world building wasn't needed, the viewers who haven't been lost alreayd know exactly what type of world it is. Plus you dont put your world building at the end, that shit goes up front.
23:16 <quadir> yeah... you have a point there godix
23:17 <quadir> also there is 3 shots in the video that are 'gray', like the very first shot, something around 1:00 and the end shot
23:17 <quadir> that I'm not sure what they are trying to say
23:17 <quadir> the opening shot is what made me think the whole thing was more recollection
23:17 <quadir> and that would tie in with the last shot
23:18 <quadir> and somewhat explain world-building after their relationship ends...
23:18 <quadir> but I thought she died?
23:18 <quadir> so that confuses me a lot
23:18 <godix> I stongly suspect he was going for a striaght forward 'boy likes girl. Girl kicks the bucket' story and just went with so much pointless filler that the actual point of the thing was buried.
23:18 -!- szwagier has quit
23:19 <shumira_chan> I wonder if the editor would look at these comments and wonder what the hell people are talking about...
23:19 <trythil> shumira_chan: oh probably
23:19 <quadir> shumira_chan: there's a reason artists are not at the gallery, and why a gallery will only show a dead person's work :)
23:20 <quadir> trythil: bah I talk amv's with my friends once in awhile :)
23:20 <quadir> trythil: its like people who discuss movies, they don't get too "deep" into it
23:20 <godix> "How can someone who produced such pure shit feel qualified to critize me?"
23:20 <trythil> godix: *me
23:21 <quadir> godix: and you think a director thinks ever movie critic is wrong because they never made a movie?
23:21 <trythil> quadir: well, Uwe Boll certainly does
23:21 <godix> trythil: Try as you might you will never get something as absolutely worthless as any of the Dedicated to videos.
23:21 <aesling> lmao tryth
23:23 <inthesto> Wait, are we talking about Uwe Boll?
* bit of a snip about viewing vs editing again *
23:23 <aesling> quadir: that may be true in some respects, but actually being an editor does give you a different perspective on videos
23:24 <trythil> I agree
23:24 <trythil> instead of watching the videos
23:24 <quadir> aesling: yes, different is true
23:24 <trythil> you're like
23:24 <trythil> LOL FRAME DESYNC
23:24 <Reigna> Yep >>
23:24 <inthesto> "wtf was the editor thinking"
23:24 * quadir laughs.
23:24 <trythil> I know, because I've done that
23:24 <trythil> actually
23:24 <trythil> I'd liken the transformation to what happens when you go from listener to audiophile
23:25 <trythil> seriously
23:25 <quadir> I liked this video but then again I liked trythil's "and forever dreaming" for about the same reasons
23:25 <trythil> quadir: because both were incoherent?
23:25 <trythil> I watched and forever something a couple weeks back and couldn't understand it
23:25 <godix> trythil: And forever dreaming was fine. Sink was incoherent.
23:25 <quadir> trythil: I turned off 2001 space odicy after 15 minutes of space shuttle docking. I have limits
23:26 <trythil> quadir: did you intentionally spell "odyssey" as "odicy"?
23:26 <trythil> because if you did that's a neat pun
23:28 <godix> trythil: Just tell him that you have typography issues with the video and leave it to him to try and figure out what you're talking about.
23:28 <inthesto> Where do I submit video suggestions?
23:28 <trythil> what typography
23:29 <trythil> the only such work was in the bumpers
23:29 <quadir> pm me on the forums or email to quadir@animemusicvideos.org
23:29 <trythil> which were fine
23:29 <godix> trythil: Exactly. Let him figure it out.
23:29 <trythil> um
23:29 <trythil> typography is not an uncommon word
23:29 <trythil> if I write that, I'll just look dumb
23:29 <godix> trythil: Like you aren't used to that.
23:29 <trythil> true
23:29 <trythil> but I don't try to keep doing it
23:30 -!- Kionon has quit [Ping timeout]
22:01 <quadir> > Thanks to everyone for coming out for another AMV-Review, I hope you enjoyed the experience and will come back next week. An edited log will be posted on the forums for those who were not able to make it later tonight. Feel free to stay and discuss the bonus vid, and use this channel anytime for video discussions. Organized moderated discussions will keep happening on Mondays, the next one on 2007-04-02 at 21:00 EDT (9pm).
22:32 <quadir> feel free to use this room anytime during the week to discuss vids
22:32 <quadir> people who are interested in doing so should probably lurk :)
This video is on a optional-op basis, and thrown in so people have something fun or interesting at the end that didn't make the cut for this week's video choice
---
Link: William Cathey - 199x - Masochism Tango (direct link)
Editor: William Cathey (rezo)
Category: Comedy
Anime: Various
Song: Tom Lehrer - Masochism Tango
Tags: [Mild Gore]
If you want to discuss this video, please clearly indicate BONUS video in your post
FAQ:
Q: How do I participate on this week's discussion now that it's already happened?
A: Never fear! You can post a reply on that week's thread, and continue the discussion there. Don't be shy. We do ask that you please download and op the video before posting here however.
Q: Do I have to read the IRC Discussion before posting?
A: No. But it might give you an idea what other people were saying about it, think of it like reading pages 1-15 of a really long forum thread before posting on page 16.
Q: Was this a one time thing?
A: We'll be doing this every week, Monday's at 9pm EDT with a new video every week.
Q: Can I suggest a video for next week?
A: Yes! Suggest a video you want to talk about or you think would make a good discussion, it can also be a great way to spotlight an editor you think isn't getting much notice or who isn't active in the forums. You can PM quadir on the forums, or send an email to quadir@animemusicvideos.org with your suggestion -- please don't make suggestions in this thread.
Q: What kind of video would you show?
A: We ask that they are fairly new and are solid enough to have something to discuss on multiple fronts. Although we're focussing on undervalued editors and videos, that doesn't mean we won't pick something that has a lot of ops, hits or because of who made it. We'd consider running a bonus vid of something older if it's especially fun.
Q: Can I use #amv-review to talk amv's at other times?
A: Absolutely. Head in and lurk in #amv-review and discuss any video at any time. If people are around they will probably be willing.
Q: What are the previous weeks post?
2007-03-19: Bryan Pardue's "Kei"
