Engel

Feedback on cataloged Anime Music Videos

Moderators: Mol, seasons

Forum rules
Please observe the following unique rules for this forum:
  • Please limit your new threads (not replies) to one per week. If you have several new videos to announce, create one thread for all the videos. (Note: if you forget one you can edit your post!)
  • Offsite links are allowed, but you are required to have a catalog entry for that video as well. Threads announcing videos that do not contain a catalog entry will be moved to the Awaiting Catalog Entry sub-forum and will be deleted in 2 weeks if an entry is not created.
  • When posting announcements, it is recommended that you include links to the catalog entries (using the video ID) in your post.
  • Videos that do not contain anime are allowed to be announced in the Other Videos section and are not required to have catalog entries.
Locked
User avatar
Kaysow
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 5:42 am
Location: sveeerigeeeeee
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kaysow » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:56 pm

Kionon wrote:My advice is to add extra bars (like Caldwell did himself, and you can see it if you pause the two next to each other) to the movie footage to keep it correct, and then cut around the edges and resize the TV footage, exporting a 640x480 4:3 copy of the original. Perfectly doubled in size, and increased a hundred fold in quality.
This is supposed to go on a DVD, matching the ratio of the Platinum masters. And so, resizing the TV-footage would either mean stretching and de-interlacing, or cutting the edges. And in that case, I'd rather stretch the EoE-footage out to fit the rest of it. Caldwell did nothing about this and Turbo stretched it. I didn't cut much out, and I don't think it'll be all that noticable on TV.

Not that I've ever burned my videos other than to VCD, so I had no idea how it'd turn out. Just like the Platinum, I guess, which really is good enough for me :D
Sig pending

User avatar
Kionon
I ♥ the 80's
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:13 pm
Status: Ayukawa MODoka.
Location: I wonder if you know how they live in Tokyo... DRIFT, DRIFT, DRIFT
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kionon » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:09 pm

Kaysow wrote:This is supposed to go on a DVD, matching the ratio of the Platinum masters. And so, resizing the TV-footage would either mean stretching and de-interlacing, or cutting the edges. And in that case, I'd rather stretch the EoE-footage out to fit the rest of it. Caldwell did nothing about this and Turbo stretched it. I didn't cut much out, and I don't think it'll be all that noticable on TV.
You have to realize you have two audiences here: Those that will watch your DVD, and those that will download it from the Org.

Caldwell was working with VHS versions that were both 4:3 resolution. You, however, are working with MPEG-2, unflagged. Therefore, you need to make sure that your movie footage will display properly when flagged on a DVD player. You will want it all to look incorrect in 720x480, because it must look correct at 4:3. But this is ONLY for the mpeg-2 encode on your DVD version.

Your downloadable version should be in 4:3, or at the very least, make sure that you have a non-altered version of the 720x480 version I just mentioned, so we can at least adjust the aspect ratio ourselves with programs like VLC. Typically though, it's prefered you just make the downloadable version 640x480.

In both cases my comments are still valid.

And since this is the internet, and you can't hear my tone, I'll be clear that I'm in jovial mood and just trying to help out. I thought your remake was awesome, and this really is my only complaint. One that is very, very easily corrected. I'd hate to see all the work you go in get a groan because you didn't fix your aspect ratios, which are really noticeable.
ImageImage
That YouTube Thing.

User avatar
Kaysow
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 5:42 am
Location: sveeerigeeeeee
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kaysow » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:30 pm

Actually, I'm just not following :D I don't even know what "flagged" means

I just ripped this straight out with DVD Decryptor, then converted with DVD2AVI. No TMPEGENC. So I just assumed reinserting them to DVD-format would make it all end up peachy, and that de-interlacing would be enough for VLC.

You mean 640x480 and a bit of cropping would make it optimal for viewing in VLC and the likes? I'll try it out, as I still haven't deleted my raws (taking up more than 100GB of my 180GB HD).
Sig pending

User avatar
Kalium
Sir Bugsalot
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
Location: Plymouth, Michigan
Org Profile

Post by Kalium » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:32 pm

Kaysow wrote:You mean 640x480 and a bit of cropping would make it optimal for viewing in VLC and the likes? I'll try it out, as I still haven't deleted my raws (taking up more than 100GB of my 180GB HD).
Ack! No! Not the cropping!

Actually, we want a resize to 640x480. Read.

User avatar
Kionon
I ♥ the 80's
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:13 pm
Status: Ayukawa MODoka.
Location: I wonder if you know how they live in Tokyo... DRIFT, DRIFT, DRIFT
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kionon » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:41 pm

Kaysow wrote:Actually, I'm just not following :D I don't even know what "flagged" means
Disclaimer: The following is way oversimplified, but should suffice.

MPEG-2 video, regardless of display resolution, is always formatted in 720x480. Then there are "markers" on the footage that tell the DVD player that it should be either 4:3 or 16:9. That's called being "flagged." When you rip 4:3 source from DVDs, it will still be 720x480, even though it should more likely be 640x480 for our purposes. You will need to convert it to 640x480 so that it looks correct on our computers. It appears, if you did not alter the the EoE footage, that Manga Corp added the bars just thin enough to allow the 720x480 to be correct on its own, and therefore there would be no need to flag it for the DVD player.

As for simply converting it, you should have pre-processed it while you did so, using all sorts of tools that you can get in AMVapp. See my thread here. Which would include cleaning up the edges by cropping and resizing the TV Footage and Movie Footage (by adding further letterboxing) to match each other and the original video.
You mean 640x480 and a bit of cropping would make it optimal for viewing in VLC and the likes? I'll try it out, as I still haven't deleted my raws (taking up more than 100GB of my 180GB HD).
Again, over simplified, see above. But, essentially, yes. In fact, optimal for everyone.
ImageImage
That YouTube Thing.

User avatar
Kionon
I ♥ the 80's
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:13 pm
Status: Ayukawa MODoka.
Location: I wonder if you know how they live in Tokyo... DRIFT, DRIFT, DRIFT
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kionon » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:44 pm

Kalium wrote:
Kaysow wrote:You mean 640x480 and a bit of cropping would make it optimal for viewing in VLC and the likes? I'll try it out, as I still haven't deleted my raws (taking up more than 100GB of my 180GB HD).
Ack! No! Not the cropping!

Actually, we want a resize to 640x480. Read.
Actually, unique to this video only, we do want cropping. Caldwell's footage is slightly cropped compared to the what is available on the DVD, because the VHS tapes are cropped or Caldwell's captures were cropped. Either way, in this case, cropping around the edges is desired to match the original as closely as possible.
ImageImage
That YouTube Thing.

User avatar
Knowname
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:49 pm
Status: Indubitably
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Org Profile

Post by Knowname » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:51 pm

you know what I was thinking... and something I woulda' done. Is just use the lips from the original :lol: But than I'm just a really lazy mofo... but c'mon?? put with like a color key who'd know?? And it'd probly saved you ALOT of time.... that is... if you didn't do this in the first place. Just saying... it's what I'da' done ;p.

That and Asuka shows ALOT of teeth ya know?? I just don't know how LONG it took you to get whether it's 5 frames of the toothless grin before she jides them all, or 4 and 1 more frame of the toothy grin. Take note. when with Asuka WATCH THE TEETH?? Shinji? you listening?? (hopefully it doesn't work both ways *gulp*)

Prodigi
is the conductor.
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:48 am
Org Profile

Post by Prodigi » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:17 pm

this thread is humorous :?

User avatar
Kaysow
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 5:42 am
Location: sveeerigeeeeee
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kaysow » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:43 pm

Too confused, apart from just sick of editing this video.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to make another version, but what would you have made different? It's not merely a remaster, so I'm taking all the chances I get to improve on the original.

640x480 seems to be the very best for computerviewing, but 720x480 is the only one that lets me keep all of the picture (and the quality), so isn't that preferable in pretty much every other way?
Stretching is not even an option to me, so what I've done is I've cropped the EoE footage just a tiny bit to make the transition less obvious, but it doesn't bother me at all that they're not entirely the same size. I even edited some non-EoE footage to fit the AR of that part of the video.

Seems to me that all I could do to improve on this version is just cropping it to 716x480 to get rid of some black at the edges of the Platinum-footage.

A width of 640 means stretching or cropping, which just isn't worth it to me. Of course I wanted this one to be optimal in every way, it's just that I thought that was what I presented here.

Or maybe I'm just missing something. Looking at screenshots of regular viewing (I suppose), it seems to me like I might be able to squeeze my footage a liiiittle more. Thusly; I end up with a 640x480-version, with 30 pixels cropped out of the X-axis of the whole shebang.
You think this would be preferable then? The EoE-interlude would still be left slightly thinner than the rest, as the only way to resize my footage without the destroying it would include a new output at 320x240.

Trying this out (I'm experimenting while writing) end up with the EoE-footage feeling way too close to the camera. Kinda like in "Enter the Dragon", where you pretty much just see Bruce Lee punching people, without actually seeing the punches land. It's because I had to crop off 65 on the Y-axis, and a whooping 130 of the X-axis. I'm also losing out on much of the slick "feature length motion picture"-luxury feel that the thinner footage gives off.


Original 720x240. This was downloaded and is actually already a bit cropped to smooth it out
Image

320x240 and cropped
Image


In summation; what I can do is crop out some black of the edges, then stretch it a leettle, then print.


Another example here, all in smaller size for easier viewing

720x480, the one up for download
Image

640x480 the one I'm tinkering with
Image

Kevin Caldwell's original in 320x240
Image

This was originally all gonna be a PM to Kinon, but I might as well make it a public one :D

Knowname: That's what I did, most of the time. Had to reuse a lot of mouths in places where the backgrounds had shifted, or in an entirely new scene, and that required some edited frames. Had to alter them a bit too, so there's maybe 5 mouths tops that are unique here.
And, of course, a total of 240+ photoshops.
Sig pending

User avatar
Kionon
I ♥ the 80's
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 10:13 pm
Status: Ayukawa MODoka.
Location: I wonder if you know how they live in Tokyo... DRIFT, DRIFT, DRIFT
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Kionon » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:31 pm

You're highly over complicating this. Look at the images:
Kaysow wrote:]640x480 the one I'm tinkering with

Image

Kevin Caldwell's original in 320x240

Image
What you'll notice is that because Caldwell was working with 4:3 VHS source, his letterboxing is bigger than yours. What you need to do is add further letterboxing so that the 4:3 nature of the TV series is matched by the 4:3 nature of the 16:9 Movie WITH LETTERBOXING. Is this making any sense?

You can clearly see from the pictures you posted that your movie footage, when resized to allow a 4:3 resolution, is incorrect. It still needs to be 16:9, but it needs letterboxing so that it matches the VHS "Widescreen" edition of the source that Caldwell used.

And oddly enough, your "320x240" Caldwell screencaps are not 4:3 (I checked against my copy of Caldwell's original), but your "640x480" caps clearly are. O.o What's up with that?
ImageImage
That YouTube Thing.

Locked

Return to “AMV Announcements & Feedback”