VCAs = Urgh?

[Aria Mournesong]

I was about half-way through nominating AMVs for the awards this year when I just threw my hands up in frustration. I don't feel like number crunching but it seemed that a lot of the same videos and/or artists kept showing up in multiple categories.

To me, it kinda takes some of the fun and mystique out of the whole awards when that happens, to me it feels like a monopoly in the polls. Now I'm not flaming the artists that created the AMVs or the AMVs themselves, nor is this a bitter post because I didn't get any of my AMVs in the semi's. I seriously was just clicking on the boxes when I noticed it felt like I had -just- done the exact same votes on the category before, so I scrolled back and sure enough most of the categories seemed to be mirroring each other in selections. So I just kind of threw my hands in the air and said "forget it". It's fairly obvious what the outcome of the semi-finals/finals will be so my one small vote won't be missed.

Honestly, in any professional award ceremony what are the chances that one movie by one director is going to win or even be nominated in 3/4s of the categories?
With no offense to the creators, in my opinion, some of the AMVs that have reacted multi-category nominations....dont really even fit in some of the categories they've been nominated for.

Next years VCAs needs to have a new system we actually have diversified selections within each category. This year, however, like the Grammies and the Olympics, I just can't really bring myself to care.


But seriously though, I do want to congratulate the winners(whoever they are), and the creators/AMVs that did manage to achieve these sweeping nominations. I've watched most of them and they -are- reallyreallyreally good.


PS: They forgot to add Decoy's Naruto Technique Beat under best Dance Video. Afterall the title even says "Technique Beat" so it counts =P.
[ Once again, that was a joke with no malice attached. ]

[Keeper of Hellfire]

Honestly, in any professional award ceremony what are the chances that one movie by one director is going to win or even be nominated in 3/4s of the categories?

Yes, it happened several times for the OSCAR award. But since the choice was made by experts, the movies fitted all the categories. The VCA's are a popularity contest only and don't have much to do with the quality of the AMV's. (That doesn't necessarily mean that the winners aren't good AMV's)

[Infinity Squared]

Yeah, remember Titanic? Not only was it nominated but actually won tonnes of awards... That's not to say you don't have a point though.

My personal stand on the matter... as long as the video does fit there, then I don't mind if it has made it in to multiple categories. This is after all a way to see the best that that particular year has offered and if that video was the best drama as well as dance, then why take that away from the video?

However, I do feel that in a sense there needs to be a bit more of a review at the videos that end up as far as the semifinals and actually check if they indeed fit for the category they were nominated in. Convention AMV competitions do make quite a bit of effort to properly screen videos for appropriateness in categories, and though I understand it's close to impossible for the admins to check each and every one of the thousands of videos here for appropriateness, I don't see why at least those that make it as far as the semis don't get a bit of glance over... heck, I don't see why a separate group of people who are interested to do the job can't do this simple check up and the videos to see if they should be appropriate for the category... you could even make them anonymous so there's no animosity to them if they said your video doesn't fit a category...

[Aria Mournesong]

I realized after I posted it I should have been more clear on my point & i'm glad you brought it up, because the conclusion you posted is correct. On a few occasions a movie has covered 3/4 of the categories.

HOWEVER, that was just one very outstanding movie. In our categories we have -multiple- editors/amvs being nominated for -multiple- awards.

The chances of one movie getting that kind of spread in say, the Oscars, as you used for an example isn't that great. What would the chances be of say 6 films getting that kind of spread(each having at least one nomination in 80% of the categories) for the Oscars.

That's more of the point I was trying to get too.

Also you're right in saying when it comes down too it, the VCAs is a popularity contest. The mods work hard on setting up and it's appreciated, but, the voting just seems like a big joke.
But that's just my opinion and I'm just one opinion in a large AMV-community on one website in a sea of manymanymanymany websites. Hence why I just said "I'm not voting" and left it at that, but decided to voice my views over it to see if anyone else was feeling the same way or if it was just me.

[Arigatomina]

I think one major difference between movies and amvs is that amvs are many and far less advertised. A single producer may take years to make a great movie, so that movie is only up for awards during the one year that it's finished and watched. This means you don't have the single editor with lots of vids made that year problem we get here. Then there's the voting process - a tiny fraction of the members vote on this site, and among them the chances of a majority having seen the same videos - enough to get it into even the lowest ranking, is slim. Only the really well known videos have a chance. With movies, there's a lot more money going into them, they're singular (the cast, producer, director, writer - all of them are banking on that one project), and so they get out there and sell it so everyone knows almost all the movies nominated for the oscars. Here we have cons and threads in the forum to advertise, but that's assuming the voters happen upon those advertisements. They aren't getting beamed into their tv sets through constant previews, promos at the beginning of purchased movies, etc.

It just makes sense that few vids are going to be nominated by a big enough majority to hit the rank. And when you have most people only being familiar with three or four videos, or three or four editors, they'll nominate those four for every category they can - because they don't know any other vids to nominate. The others that slip into the rank, with little chance of actually winning, were voted in by a mere fraction of the votes those well known few got. It's natural given the way videos are nominated.

The only way around it is limiting videos to a set number of categories they can compete in, and weeding out inappropriate nominations. Both have been suggested and requested - even by the creators in some cases - and it hasn't and probably will never happen.

Another option would be to cut out the redundant categories like Fun and Comedy, Drama and Sentimental, Artistic and Original. We keep adding categories hoping more vids will be nominated and there will be more variety, but all it really results in is having the same videos nominated for even more categories than they would have been to begin with. Again, this has been brought up and dismissed. It's not going to happen.

The only changes I can see taking place next year is that we might find a new wording for the fun/dance/comedy vids, or for those romantic/sentimental/drama vids, and we'll get two 'new' categories for the same vids to go into. Really, it's self-defeating to even aim for variety when all extra categories mean is more chances for the same vids to win.

I say leave it alone. Until we find a way to get more members to participate in the nomination and voting process, there's no point trying to change things. There will still be the same group of members who've all seen the same group of videos and thus vote for what they've seen. That's the way it should be, anyway, voting for what you've seen. Now that we have the first group of participating vids, we can try and watch them all and make a legitimate vote on them. But you can't complain about the semi vids because there's no one in the world who has the time to watch every single video that was available to be nominated during the very first round. The first round is vote for what you know and like. The well known vids will make it in for sure, or the vids by well known creators, and then you'll have the stragglers to fill in the extra slots. It's the voting from here on out where you can actually compare the competing videos.

[Aria Mournesong]

I think one major difference between movies and amvs is that amvs are many and far less advertised. A single producer may take years to make a great movie, so that movie is only up for awards during the one year that it's finished and watched. This means you don't have the single editor with lots of vids made that year problem we get here. Then there's the voting process - a tiny fraction of the members vote on this site, and among them the chances of a majority having seen the same videos - enough to get it into even the lowest ranking, is slim. Only the really well known videos have a chance. With movies, there's a lot more money going into them, they're singular (the cast, producer, director, writer - all of them are banking on that one project), and so they get out there and sell it so everyone knows almost all the movies nominated for the oscars. Here we have cons and threads in the forum to advertise, but that's assuming the voters happen upon those advertisements. They aren't getting beamed into their tv sets through constant previews, promos at the beginning of purchased movies, etc.

It just makes sense that few vids are going to be nominated by a big enough majority to hit the rank. And when you have most people only being familiar with three or four videos, or three or four editors, they'll nominate those four for every category they can - because they don't know any other vids to nominate. The others that slip into the rank, with little chance of actually winning, were voted in by a mere fraction of the votes those well known few got. It's natural given the way videos are nominated.

Uhhh....that's where AMVs and movies are the same. There's thousands of AMVs made each year, but only a few AMVs rise above the rest and get noticed due to hard work on the creators end to make it far above average.
Movies are the same, there's thousands(if not tens of thousands) made each year, but there's only a select few that gain global fame due to either or a combination of: Story, effects, actors, the director and/or budget.

Same principle it's just applied differently.

However, at this point all I can say is, these last posts have been debating at -one- point in my post and really that one point shouldn't have to be discussed this deeply cause it's one point lol.

[Flint the Dwarf]

Yeah, remember Titanic? Not only was it nominated but actually won tonnes of awards... That's not to say you don't have a point though.

Titanic has also grossed more than $6 billion in the box office. Not even the god-almighty Euphoria can match up to that.

[Prodigi]

Yeah, remember Titanic? Not only was it nominated but actually won tonnes of awards... That's not to say you don't have a point though.

Titanic has also grossed more than $6 billion in the box office. Not even the god-almighty Euphoria can match up to that.

theys be lies :O

[DJ_Izumi]

I'm kind if suprised that I've made it into the semi-final for the trailer catagory. My two trailers for 2005 were a remake of a 2001 project and another video which in my opinion just wasn't that great...

Everyone vote for Pwolf's Ace Combat Zero #3 please.

[Arigatomina]

Uhhh....that's where AMVs and movies are the same. There's thousands of AMVs made each year, but only a few AMVs rise above the rest and get noticed due to hard work on the creators end to make it far above average.

A single producer may take years to make a great movie, so that movie is only up for awards during the one year that it's finished and watched. This means you don't have the single editor with lots of vids made that year problem we get here.

I get the feeling you didn't catch those sentences, or didn't get what I meant by them. I never said it wasn't normal for the same small group of amvs to get every single possible vote by default of being the few well known ones on the site. To the contrary, my entire post was about how normal it was for a select few to win everything. You said:

What would the chances be of say 6 films getting that kind of spread(each having at least one nomination in 80% of the categories) for the Oscars.

And thus my response - the chances are great if all six of those films were made by the same well known and very popular producer. That's the difference I was trying to point out - movies take longer to make than amvs, so you don't get one producer/cast/group sweeping multiple categories with the same 6 (random number) films. It's much easier for a single editor to make 6 great amvs in the same year and have them all be known because *he* is well known.

But, like you just now said, "...a few AMVs rise above the rest and get noticed due to hard work on the creators end to make it far above average." That answers the question you yourself asked about how likely it is for the same 6 videos to sweep the different categories. Six is "few" compared to the masses on this site. So now you're agreeing with me that it actually *is* natural for the few (6 in your example) to win everything. My reply was written because it sounded like you didn't believe it was normal for the same 6 vids to win everything. Now that you're saying the same thing I said in response to your original post, I take it you've changed your mind about the unfairness/unusualness of the way the vcas turn out every year.

...at this point all I can say is, these last posts have been debating at -one- point in my post and really that one point shouldn't have to be discussed this deeply cause it's one point lol.

Sorry. I reread your two main posts and I still don't see any points that haven't been responded to. The first post was about a "monopoly in the polls" and a possible system to have more diversity in the selections for each category. The second post was about appropriateness of the vids that are voted into the categories. And the third post was a reiteration of the "monopoly in the polls" and a statement that the chance of 6 films getting an vca-type spread is low. I hit those points in my response. If I missed something, I didn't mean to. I like the subject, so I may have read your posts too quickly.