AMVs getting Banned?

[Enigmay84]

Hey, just thought I'd give everyone some places I've found since I got the news. Yeah, I got a little P.O.'ed but I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Which gives us the exact definition of "Fair Use" and will give you some intelligent facts to go on rather than "Hey, I'm Ticked!".

Also, as Phade said, there's a few activist groups you can join who fight for freedoms of people on the net:

http://www.eff.org/

They have a few different contact lines, and if lots of us contact them, they will join our cause, since they will see how many persons are behind this.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and some of the facts, no opinions.

[trythil]

Jesus Christ. For the last fucking time:

FAIR USE IS NOT A SOLID DEFENSE.*

This case has VERY LITTLE to stand on, and EFF isn't crazy. Radicals, maybe, but not insane.








* Why? Because it must be decided on a case-by-case basis. This requires lots of money.

[808-buma]

and I think that this isn't a 'fair use' issue either, it's one of illegal distribution of copyrighted works...

Anime companies probably don't care too much as you aren't using the entire anime for your video.

Music companies would be pissed because for the most part, a lot of AMV's use the whole song unedited and any schmo with a little bit of knowledge can download an AMV, demux the audio and have a digital, near perfect copy of the music for free...

[Enigmay84]

Jesus Christ. For the last fucking time:

FAIR USE IS NOT A SOLID DEFENSE.*

This case has VERY LITTLE to stand on, and EFF isn't crazy. Radicals, maybe, but not insane.



* Why? Because it must be decided on a case-by-case basis. This requires lots of money.

I think someone has a bit of an anger issue. I was just putting up facts about the issue since everyone was screaming at each other about whether it was theft or not. You have provided an excellent example of those persons who scream and yell because someone has a different view, or because it's the only place you can, or whatever. The point is, as a forum is basically a place to exchange ideas with one-another, yelling in protest is not a productive way to get your point across.

808-buma, I agree that it is possible to get the music by ripping the AMV into pieces, but most people dont' do that. especially with trackerless torrents nowadays allowing people to get whatever they want for free anyway (Damn pirates...). And yes, it does take a lot of money to get a court case taken care of, however, I wanted to provide FACTS. Oh, check on the site about "fair use" it has stuff about copyrighted works in it. (thanks for not swearing or screaming at me, you get 5,000 points)

I did research, and put it onto the forum. If the other threads had not been locked, then I would not have made a new thread. However, since I saw no mention of either of these sources, I thought it would be nice to provide facts for people to look at, rather than opinions (as I have provided in this post).

There is another way around the banning anyway. Make a website, and Embed the video. that makes it so it cannot be taken from the web-page, and thus remains within the confines of what the label wanted anyway.


Finally, I'm sorry if I sound pissed or something, but I thought it would be nice to provide this information so that those who wanted to know more (y'know, expand their minds a bit) could do so. The first thing I see when I get home from work is that someone is screaming at me unnecessarily. If they had provided a counter-point that was not FLAMING then it would have been appreciated and not have provoked me to respond, as I was only going to post the first post, and not anymore until much, much later on when I needed to (like, 3 years from now).

Thank you for your time.

[Enigmay84]

Here's something to keep in mind when posting on forums...

Hey All,

Here is the collection of site forum rules. This list will be modified as rules are added and/or changed.

The AnimeMusicVideos.org Code of Ethics:

<ol><li> <b>Thou shalt be courteous at all times</b> including visiting conventions, forum posts, opinions given, and opinions received. Respect other's judgment though you may disagree with it. <b>If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all.</b></li><li>Thou shalt not use downloaded video footage to make AMVs.</li><li> Thou shalt not use downloaded music to make AMVs.</li><li> Thou shalt not use pirated software: No warez, No serialz, No crackz.</li><li> Thou shalt only have one user account.</li><li>Thou shalt not put false information into the video catalog. </li><li>There shalt be only one catalog entry per video. </li><li>Thou shalt enter only the videos you created.</li><li>Thou shalt not steal other video creator's ideas.</li><li>Thou shalt not try to impersonate other video creators.</li></ol>The forum-specific rules:<ol><li>Do not abuse your site and forum privileges. Abuse will have them taken away.</li><li> Forum signature images shall not be larger than 40 pixels tall or 600 pixels wide; any sig image exceeding these limits will be removed from the sig file without warning. </li><li>Forum signatures shall have no greater total dimensions than 600 pixels wide and 80 pixels high or four lines of normal-sized text (font size 12). You may have multiple images in your signature, but no single image may exceed 600 pixels in length or 40 pixels in height or be greater than 100 kb in size. Any signature exceeding these total dimensions or any single image that goes beyond the aforementioned limits may be removed or altered without warning.</li><li> Linked forum avatars shall not be larger than 80 pixels tall or 80 pixels wide, and no larger than 80kb in file size; any avatar image exceeding these limits will be removed from the sig file without warning. </li><li> If a member (most likely a newbie) posts to the wrong forum, you as a knowing member must 1) answer the question they posted and then 2) point out which forum is the most approprate one to post to about such items. The forum moderator will (most likely) soon move the thread. </li><li>If you post images in forum threads, you should own the bandwidth that is providing those images. If you steal bandwidth by linking to images you do not have server control over, those images will be removed from the post. </li><li> There shall be no posts containing or on how to obtain warez, crackz, serialz, emulators, porn/hentai, bootlegs, or illegally obtain downloadable anime episodes, music, or any other sort of copyrighted material. You will be banned <b>without warning</b> for such posts.</li><li> The forum will not be used for any kind of personal attacks. </li><li> The forum will not be used for any unsolicited posts - advertising or self-promotional posts that are off-topic will be removed and the user banned.</li></ol>Phade.

[trythil]

You have provided an excellent example of those persons who scream and yell because someone has a different view, or because it's the only place you can, or whatever.

Actually, I wrote that in large text because I'm tired of seeing irrelevent arguments. If you chose to research why I wrote that rather than chatise me, I think you'll see why.

The gist of the argument:

Everyone already knows that AMV creation is, in the United States, legal under fair use laws. That point has been driven home countless times.

But that's totally beside the issue. The problem is one of distribution, and that is where the defense becomes extremely fragile at best, and (most likely) completely untenable.

Was it the most civilized communication? No. However, sometimes you have to drive your point home with a hammer.

There is another way around the banning anyway. Make a website, and Embed the video. that makes it so it cannot be taken from the web-page, and thus remains within the confines of what the label wanted anyway.

Actually, no. Problems, both technical and legal (U.S.):

(1) Embedding the video does nothing to prevent nonephemeral copies, for it is trivial to recover the video's location and directly download it. Anyone with a basic knowledge of HTML can extract that information. Additionally, many video plugins store information in on-disk cache.

(2) Protection under §112 requires proper licensing, which you would not have and most likely could not obtain, due to extravagant cost.

(3) Even if you consider only the audio portion and try to defend yourself under §114, you still run afoul of the problem that you are not broadcasting in any sense of the term. Additionally, I do not believe that you could possibly fit that into any another activity described in §114(b)(d)(1).

The first thing I see when I get home from work is that someone is screaming at me unnecessarily.

You probably won't read this, but if you do, I hope you'll see why I did that.

[Jesus|Fael]

Jesus Christ. For the last fucking time:

FAIR USE IS NOT A SOLID DEFENSE.*

This case has VERY LITTLE to stand on, and EFF isn't crazy. Radicals, maybe, but not insane.

* Why? Because it must be decided on a case-by-case basis. This requires lots of money.

Yeah this also requires a lot of money from the record label. A lot of money no record label would EVER spend. Sorry to disappoint, but anime music videos are not significant enough to matter. Not only are the producers and distributers of said works doing such with no monitary gain, there is no proven effect upon the work's value. Remember that Sony Corp v Universal was decided because Universal couldn't prove that betamax had actually negatively effected Universal. Same condition here. Yes, you are technically distributing copyrighted music files. However, they are being distributed as part of an artistic work in a shell which in no way replaces the labels product, namely CD or iTunes sales. In this case, the only unprotected act would be the muxing of the sound off of the video file (and only cause of the crappy precident set against sampling in the early 90's)! In fact, they are creating exposure to an artists work much in the same way as radio or internet streaming (which is becoming a very popular practice among artists on labels far more powerful then Wind Up). Remember again that the artist's work loses no value because its product is not being replaced. I can't slip an AMV onto my MP3 player or a cd and listen to the song in my car. Sure, one could dismantle the shell and mux the sound... but thats a seperate illegal act altogether.

Funny... one moment you have Evanescence's label harping over some fan-made music videos while Interscope recently not only allowed the distribution of the source tracks of the last two singles of the multiplat artist Nine Inch Nails, but actually encouraged fan remixes through an advertising campaign with Avid/Digidesign with only a warning attached that the files could not be used for profit.

Wind Up wouldn't take this to court. This would get to their senior attorney who would just blink, tell them they have a snowball's chance in hell of proving negative impact, and then go back to waging war on mp3 file sharing and bittorrent. After all, who really gives a shit about someone taking all the time to mux a single song off an AMV when people are downloading albums two weeks before release over bittorrent at 100kb/sec+.

[trythil]

Everyone already knows that AMV creation is, in the United States, legal under fair use laws. That point has been driven home countless times.

Or, if the legality of this is not clear, it is a much grayer issue, in part due to lack of competition.

[Jesus|Fael]

Actually, I wrote that in large text because I'm tired of seeing irrelevent arguments. If you chose to research why I wrote that rather than chatise me, I think you'll see why.

Thanks Mr. O'Reilly. Why use a simple hotlink to former discussion or a statement explaining that said topic has already been done to death when you can SHOCK AND AWE!

Was it the most civilized communication? No. However, sometimes you have to drive your point home with a hammer.

A hammer with no nails is useless. Want proof?

PENGUINS FLEW FROM NIGERIA TO THEIR CURRENT HOME IN CUBA.

Yeah the embedded thing wouldn't work if the AMVs were truely persecutable... which they arn't...

You probably won't read this, but if you do, I hope you'll see why I did that.

Because you're impatient and have a stuck caps lock key?

[requiett]

Jesus Christ. For the last fucking time:
FAIR USE IS NOT A SOLID DEFENSE.*
This case has VERY LITTLE to stand on, and EFF isn't crazy. Radicals, maybe, but not insane.
* Why? Because it must be decided on a case-by-case basis. This requires lots of money.

I think someone has a bit of an anger issue. I was just putting up facts about the issue since everyone was screaming at each other about whether it was theft or not. You have provided an excellent example of those persons who scream and yell because someone has a different view, or because it's the only place you can, or whatever.

LARGE PRINT IS SCAAAAARY!

Fuck dude. This thread is even more retarded than mine. And mine was purposely retarded, while this is the REAL DEAL.

I agree with the fact that AMVs aren't legitimate at all unless you use your own materials, but then they wouldn't really be AMVs to begin with. "Fair Use" is about what you can do with your copies of copyrighted materials within your own personal usage. The making of AMVs themselves is not illegal if you've paid for what you use (or if it's not licensed), but the distribution can be, and usually is.