Metal bass

[Tono_Fyr]

So, basically Nicholas, Newsted did two good albums, then made a bunch of shit? Because everything after the Black album has sucked (and some would argue that black itself sucked).

[Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

What more can you really ask of an instrumentalist exactly?

It was more of an "if, then" statement than a truth statement. Obviously Cliff knew theory, but whether he was a technically good bassist is up for debate, since, well, he didn't do much.

Oh, yeah, unless you consider writing a lot of the parts for Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets to be something, and at least writing his own instrumental track, Newstead wrote virtually nothing aside from blackened. And before you go extolling the virtues of the rest of the album might i point out that Burton also wrote part of 'To Live is to Die'. Moreover, if you watch a video of one of his solos come back and tell me he wasn't technically skilled, I'll bet you'll see otherwise.

Most of the stuff on Master of Puppets is very easy. Playing Battery and Master of Puppets back to back is simple. I haven't tried learn the rest of the album because my time has gone to Death and Nile. Ah yes, and most of Cliff's lines can be played with two fingers. The only ones I can think of that should be/have to be played with three are Battery and Fight Fire with Fire since they're more galloping based, especially at the tempo they're at.

Also, the solos that Cliff played are nothing special. Whoopy, he played with distortion and wah.

I never said you had to play them with three, but it takes more time and practice to be able to play with 3 or 4, therefore making the playing more technical.

They are excellent solos, if you had much musical nouse you'd be able to hear past the distortion and wah and recognise that he's playing some highly technical shit in there.

That's the worst argument i ever heard. The man died, who knows what would have happened if he hadn't.

My arguement is that he didn't have time to prove how good he was or could have been, there's no way to predict he wouldn't have left the band after Puppets, or there's no way to predict that he would have had a greater influence on their work than he already did.

It certainly didn't sound that way to me, it sounded more like you were saying he just didn't work for long enough to be better, when he produced much more technically and musically accomplished work than newstead ever has.

Hmm, right, and how are the same riffs over and over and over again inventive? Cliff instigated time signature changes, sprawling instrumental sections, bass solos, truly meaningful lyrics, what did Newstead do? My Friend of Misery? The man couldn't even be bothered to follow the guitar properly, god only knows what Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning would have sounded like had newstead got his hands on them.

"Sprawling instrumental sections"? Nothing that Metallica did in the first three albums was hard. Hetfield wrote most of the lyrics for Metallica, he always has. Bass solos? I'd hardly call them "bass' solos, more like a mess of distortion.

As far as Newsted, he probably would have improved them a little. Newsted was restricted greatly in Metallica up until Load/ReLoad. Not to mention anything he ever did in Metallica is smothered by his work on Flotsam and Jetsam's debut, "Doomsday for the Deceiver." Listen to it before you judge Newsted, thanks.

I'll judge Newstead on what he did in Metallica, the same way i'm judging Burton. And as for Load/ReLoad, they're just as simple as the rest of Newstead's work, the same old 4/4 time, plodding riffs, and relatively meaningless subject matter, just like everything since Burton died.

And as for blackened...damn that's one boring, long-ass song, and apocalyptic lyrics...whooo, thats never been done before, has it?

If it's so boring, why does the crowd hugely pop for it every time they play it, hmm?

Might I remind you that according to "the crowd" St. Anger is a welcome return to form for metallica? I think that speaks for itself.

[NicholasDWolfwood]

St. Anger is a step in the right direction. Obviously you have no sense of music at all if you don't believe that it was thrashier than anything they've done since AJFA.

I've seen videos of Burton. I've also seen videos of countless other bassists. Many bassists are much more skilled than Burton. I don't see anything special in Burton.

It takes more time and practice to be able to play them with three and four? I do believe that it takes more time and practice to get the rhythms to sound right (and to even play them up to speed) with two fingers. If anything, three fingers makes it easier, and since many bassists don't bother with their pinky because it's too short and doesn't move well enough, I won't bother explaining.

I have a lot of musical "nouse," whatever that word means. Maybe I've growl tired of hearing the same arpeggiate based distortion drenched solos, I don't know, but to me it sounds simplistic. I can play that shit at not even a year and a half playing. You give me a day of practicing it and I'll play it for you.

Tono_Fyr: Load/ReLoad doesn't suck. Although there's a lot of filler on there, if they'd combined the good tracks onto one album, it'd be great. Obviously it's the opposite side of the spectrum from thrash, but it's great material. It shows their more bluesy/hard rock side. I expect evolution from any band, since playing the same thing over and over for 20 years would be boring.

Let's just agree to disagree. This is like comparing Kirk Hammett to Dave Mustaine, or Mark Hoppus to Steve DiGiorgio.

[Zaphod_Beeblebrox]

St. Anger is a step in the right direction. Obviously you have no sense of music at all if you don't believe that it was thrashier than anything they've done since AJFA.

I didn' say it wasn't thrashy, i was just trying to imply that, compared to their earlier efforts St. Anger is really, really shit, no matter how much aggression they put into it, the songs are too long with riffs that repeat too often, the drums sound too tinny, there are no solos, the lyrics mean sweet f/a and i have a soft spot for the good old idea of an album with an overall theme....and Trujilo can't really compare to Newstead or Burton.

But whatever, i give up. It's about 5:35 in the morning in England so I'm going to sleep

[rubyeye]

Recommend some good metal bass players.

Ingar Amlien - Conception / Crest of Darkness

I've never heard his Crest of Darkness band (it's black/death metal) but with Conception, his bass work really comes through strong - you can feel it up front in the mix.

[badmartialarts]

I like Shavo Odadjian (System of A Down) and his crazy bass lines, though they perhaps aren't all that technical in comparison to the names in this thread.

[Flint the Dwarf]

St. Anger is a step in the right direction. Obviously you have no sense of music at all if you don't believe that it was thrashier than anything they've done since AJFA.

Thrashy maybe, but that was some of the weakest "anger" I've heard in a long time. At least from the studio... live is another matter, because of the energy. But it's like James had to *try* to be angry when he was writing. It didn't have any of the gritty integrity that AJFA and MoP had.

I've seen videos of Burton. I've also seen videos of countless other bassists. Many bassists are much more skilled than Burton. I don't see anything special in Burton.

The way I see it is that Burton was uncultivated, much like Lars was but with more knowledge. I'm not going to take a side on the issue, as I like both Newsted and Burton, but I think Burton showed promise as a writer and a musician, and it's sad that he didn't have time to develop.

And I once again bring Les Claypool up, even though his stuff isn't metal. I think anyone with an interest in bass should give a listen to Claypool's style, because it's fun as hell to listen to.

[Harlock7876]

Troy Tipton: Zero Hour/Death Machine

Most of my favorite bassists don't play in metal bands. Here are two:
Mark King: Level 42
Ed Platt: Enchant

Those that do, I like because of their contributions to the band and not for their abilities.
D.D. Verni: Bronx Casket Company
Peter Steele: Type O Negative
(cant remember his name): Lacuna Coil
Doug Pinnick: King's X
Monty Colvin: Galactic Cowboys

[Kai Stromler]

We've gotten how far without mentioning Steve Harris at all again? Even though his songwriting can be hit-or-miss at times, he's still an excellent player and has done a great deal to define what a heavy metal bass player is.

If you're already listening to Tony Choy, you probably don't need prompting to look into Roger Patterson....just an idea of where to find his material. Unfortunately, I can't help much with that. He might have some tracks still on Unquestionable Presence, but if not, good luck finding Atheist's demos. In a similarly extreme vein I'd mention Jan-Erik "Tyr" Torgerson, who's played with Borknagar and Satyricon as well as doing live session work for Emperor and really impressed me, at least.

I'd veto the earlier rec of Hansi; he hasn't picked up the axe in the last 5 years and was never into playing bass any more than necessary -- it was just a consequence of someone having to do it, and better someone who was going to be on the same page as everyone else in the group. If you want that 'workmanlinke', 'serviceable', side of metal bass, far better to check out Ian Hill, who has been solid for 30 years in what is a fairly limited role with Priest.

--K

[NicholasDWolfwood]

We've gotten how far without mentioning Steve Harris at all again? Even though his songwriting can be hit-or-miss at times, he's still an excellent player and has done a great deal to define what a heavy metal bass player is.

Hehe I already mentioned Harris ('Arry) in my first post, but yeah. His lines are fun as hell to play (the ones I've learned anyway, like Run to the Hills, Hallowed, Trooper, stuff like that) even if they are technically easy