Isn't This Kind of like Cheating?

Maverick-Rubik · Post by **Maverick-Rubik** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:08 am

devilmaykickass wrote:I haven't seen that other one yet, mainly because it's a Naruto video, but moreso because I'm on dialup...you people and your stupid 80MB+ videos.

Go to the AKROSS contest site, they have a smaller resolution version (50 mb).

http://akross.net.ru/data/contest/v_best.html

Go three windows down...

Mitchin · Post by **Mitchin** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:56 am

I'm a HUGE naruto fan and I didn't like WotB idea but I have to admit that it was well done. Euphoria is Also great and it is also well done but as many said this is not the point the point is they didn't check a box, well...... SO WHAT!!! It doesn't matter as long as you know which one you think is the best it's only a list for crying out loud. Go complain to whoever CAN do something about it

Sierra Lorna · Post by **Sierra Lorna** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:29 pm

Since Whisper of the Beast has such amazing effects, wouldn't the inclusion of the effects category make the video's score go up, not down?

Though, personally, I don't think it deserves to be at the top either, just because Euphoria's got such a ridiculus number of opinions compared to every other video on the site, and I think that should have an effect on it's placement on the top 10%.

Corran · Post by **Corran** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:52 pm

Whisper of the beast:
(9.82+9.84+9.85+9.84+9.98)/5 = 9.866

Euphoria before including digital effects score:
(9.76+9.89+9.88+9.84+9.97)/5 = 9.868

Euphoria after including digital effects score:
(9.76+9.89+9.88+9.84+9.901+9.97)/6 = 9.8735

Whether it goes up or down depends on whether the effects score is greater than the average of the other categories it is averaged together with.

In other words, it doesn't matter at least in regard to the original poster's complaints. If anything WotB would have done better if it included the category..

Mad_Cyric · Post by **Mad_Cyric** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:27 pm

the inclusion of effects would only increase the average if *every* single score were a 10. Since I don't think that would be the case (because a lot of people have different criteria for good effects), it's a bullet that the video is dodging. A lot of people don't give Euphoria or Olin or other heavy effects videos (which are well made) 10s even when the effects are what one might call "flawless," either because they just want to lower the score or they don't personally like the effects being used.

For example, I would not have given a 10 to WotB's effects because I thought a lot of them were unneccessary. That doesn't mean I'd give it a 1 or some ridiculous score like that, but that would still lower its average in the long run because every person who doesn't give it a 10 will very slightly lower its average, and when we're looking at videos that get between 300 and 1200 opinions, that can start to add up.

As for the comment that "it's the other way around..." I don't know what you mean because your English is strange but you said that people are lashing out because they don't want to see their beloved Euphoria be passed by another video, well you're right. But in my case at least, even though I think Euphoria is the best overall video out there, if it were going to be beaten I would hope it wouldn't be by another Naruto fighting video (albeit with neato effects and an original use of masking). Personally I'd rather see a number 1 like Engel or even Naruto's World if something *had* to be called better than Euphoria by the scoring system. However that is all irrelevent as I just wanted to bring up the scoring issue, which I thought was a real issue and not just an issue of personal opinion. Since Corran said it can't be changed at this point though, I think we should all just say "oh well..." and live with it, because there's no point in really arguing it anymore.

Mad_Cyric · Post by **Mad_Cyric** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:29 pm

stupid no edit button

Well if WotB would've done better with effects, then so be it, but it's still true that it's not there when it should be (once again, oh well), and it's still possible that it would've been worse for it (if everyone hadn't given it a 10 for some reason).

Corran · Post by **Corran** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:36 pm

Mad_Cyric wrote:the inclusion of effects would only increase the average if *every* single score were a 10.

Notice Euphoria's score actually increases when a non-perfect ten score for digital effects is taken into consideration. According to the math I just did the average digital effects score only needs to be above 9.866 to raise the score.

Assuming what other people would put is pointless. I know plenty of people would put tens, I also know there are people out there that would put a lower score. The chance of guessing what people would put other than yourself is silly because everyone thinks different.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:48 pm

I think most people who review Whisper are fans of the anime, so they recognize the extensive editing (effects) that were put into the video, so they'd give high scores (especially the fanboys who already give all 10s).

But I can see why Whisper would be less likely to mark effects than Euphoria. Euphoria doesn't depend on effects - the effects are added on top of the video, made to be noticed, very blatant. Whisper, on the other hand, involves a lot of editing that wouldn't be picked up by someone who doesn't know the anime - a lot of the edits are replacing characters and doing it so well that only the Naruto fanboys will catch even half the 'effects'. Also, Whisper wouldn't exist without the 'effects' - they aren't added on top of something, they *make* the video, it wouldn't be possible without them. Most of the 'effects' in Whisper are done to 'create' footage - you don't mark effects if you use an anime full of effects (in the original footage), so there's an angle to argue that effects used to 'create' footage aren't the same as effects added to stock footage.

Example - if you make your own footage for a video, is it an effect vid? If every frame in the vid counts as an 'effect' then we'd have to change the definition of effect.
[Read: There is no good if everything is good because you have no bad to distinguish the good - if everything is an effect there's nothing to distinguish an 'effect' from a 'noneffect' so there is no 'effect.']

AMV_4000 · Post by **AMV_4000** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:48 pm

o,o could this be the fall of euphoria???

Mad_Cyric · Post by **Mad_Cyric** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:11 pm

Ha, that scoring system is an interesting bit of math! Too complicated for me anyway.

I never claimed to predict what people would give it, I just said it was possible that it could go either way, and you can't dispute that. Were it to go up or down, so be it.

You bring up an interesting point about user created footage like "Anything." In the end I can't say that that's an effect, but I do consider masking and heavy filters to be effects, personally.

I don't think Euphoria would exist without effects either. It's based on absolutely capturing everything about the song and the topic, and it wouldn't be what it is without effects. I don't know that you can say that they're added "on top" of the original video since half the video is purely effects shots anyway.

I'm pretty sure that someone who hasn't seen Naruto would realize that it's an effects video by the end though, they're not exactly that subtle other than masking Haku everywhere. But I think debating this point is just as irrelevent as debating what people would score it as (as pointed out by Corran), or debating which is better.