The Technical Terms of downloaded footage.

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Akai Rurouni
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Post by Akai Rurouni » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:43 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
Akai Rurouni wrote:I could also make an argument that they should be protect under parody, but I'm not positive that would hold up for _all_ AMVs. (Depends on the judge. :) )
I think the problem with this is that fan videos actually use the original product (unlike fanfics where only the idea is reproduced, or fan-manga aka doujinshis where it's a 'similation' of the original). Fan videos use the footage - they don't create their own version of it, they actually *use* the footage itself. The same for music - they aren't doing their own versions of the songs, they're actually using those songs. Even changes to the original footage won't count as 'parody' because it's still the original, just rearranged. Parody work, like the sort protected in the US (think of books) rely on the idea that only the 'concept' is being reproduced, or the 'idea' is being twisted.

But even parody work is sometimes outlawed. There are certain US writers who've taken it upon themselves to dissallow parody work based on their novels or ideas. If enough of them gang together, books like 'Wind Done Gone' (a parody of 'Gone with the Wind' for those who don't know) will be considered 'intellectual plagiarism' and taken off the shelves. So far we're doing good to keep these people from...outgrowing their britches. There's no way we could stretch 'parody protection' to include fan videos.

Amvs use too much of the original content to be parody - instead of reproducing excerpts (words), they reproduce footage - either one is allowed in moderation with the proper citation, but basing an entire work (or video) on someone else's material is theft. I don't think any US laws can be twisted enough to make that legal.
Good point. The use of original footage may make it not-a-parody, perhaps even in the cases where the video actually is poking fun at the original anime.

As for parody work being outlawed, no author (or any other form of artist) is allowed to forbid parody of thier work. Some may try to strongarm people into not doing it. Some may even _try_ to take parodies to court.

However, parody is protected by law as long as they don't violate other parts of IP law at the same time. For that reason, parody is on the edge of IP law to begin with. So although it's protected, straying a little too far to one side and getting a judge favorable to authors could be bad news for the parody. But the bottom line (as I see it) is that if a court rules against a pardy, then either it was doing something wrong besides just parody, or the judge made a bad (incorrect) ruling.

But I bet most cases of parodies being pulled or retracted are due to the original author strongarming or threatening the parody's author or the distribution channels, rather than an actual court ruling.
Akai Rurouni

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CaTaClYsM
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Post by CaTaClYsM » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:07 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Sure... if you pay the licensing fees to obtain it.

There's really no argument here. If you don't legally own it, you can't legally use it.
Umm, you can't LEGALLY make AMV's in the first place so your point is moot.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab

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AbsoluteDestiny
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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:12 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:Umm, you can't LEGALLY make AMV's in the first place so your point is moot.
I beg to differ...

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Post by CaTaClYsM » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:17 pm

Aside from the isolated incidents where someone has the licence or permission for the person who happens to have it then it is illegal. At least that's the way I see it. But if you want to explain the subtle nuances of international copyright law then be my guest.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab

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AbsoluteDestiny
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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:21 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:Aside from the isolated incidents where someone has the licence or permission for the person who happens to have it then it is illegal. At least that's the way I see it. But if you want to explain the subtle nuances of international copyright law then be my guest.
Nah, I was talking about contracts. I dont want to go into those murky waters.

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Arigatomina
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Post by Arigatomina » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:24 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:Umm, you can't LEGALLY make AMV's in the first place so your point is moot.
Isn't it illegal to so much as break the incription on a US released dvd? So it doesn't matter if he distributes that footage - just getting it with a dvd ripper is illegal. o.O

/thinks of that little 'do not remove at penalty of the law' tag on matresses

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CaTaClYsM
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Post by CaTaClYsM » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:30 pm

AD: And one would go about getting those contract's... how?

Arigatomyna: Exactly. The simple act of making the video infringes on so many copyright's that you could very easily be legally cucified by the time you distribute it. Discussing the ETHICS of downloaded footage is a minefield as is. But anyone stupid enough to try to argue the legaillities doesn't have a leg to stand on.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab

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Fair Use

Post by Mirumoto_Chris » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:37 pm

Here is the revelent law for Fair Use.

Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use



Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1)

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2)

the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3)

the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4)

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors



I would point to number 3, personally. We use >5 min of a series that spans several hours or more.

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CaTaClYsM
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Post by CaTaClYsM » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:47 pm

1. The use of anime even on point 3 still isn't covered by the other 4, and it still doesn't justify the use of music on ANY.

2. If the dvd's have software to keep from being copied, you're shit out of luck because software meant to be able to bypass that copy protection is illegal.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab

Mirumoto_Chris
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Post by Mirumoto_Chris » Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:06 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:1. The use of anime even on point 3 still isn't covered by the other 4, and it still doesn't justify the use of music on ANY.

2. If the dvd's have software to keep from being copied, you're shit out of luck because software meant to be able to bypass that copy protection is illegal.
I beg to differ on point 1. We are not seeking commercial gain from the usage, and there negliage impact upon the market from the use of anime for AMVs.

As for point 2, that is still being decided. As per the Harvard Law website:

The appeals court had ruled that Bunner's publication of DeCSS was protected by the First Amendment, reversing the trial court's injunction.

If you can find information to refute this, please do. I have no problem being told I am wrong, so long as it is an objective, fact-based argument.[/b]

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