How important is motivation?

[Arigatomina]

I'm sure everyone has read a book or seen a movie that was prefaced by the old "This is based on the true story of..." line. The creators give that preface because it affects the way the movie/book is taken. It gives more importance to what's shown or detailed because suddenly there's a real person behind it, a true story, something the viewer (or reader) can relate to. It's a market gimic that makes millions in the movie industry (Titanic, Shindler's List, even The Blair Witch Project - though that one abuses the 'true story' preface). And you see it in amvs as well.

So, mostly to the viewers first, how much does motivation factor into how you watch a video? How important is the story behind the story - the person/inspiration behind the vid? Those of you who skip the vid descriptions can skip this thread; the question is directed to those who read more than the title (anime/song/creator name) before they download and watch.

When you see an "Iron Chef" warning, do you automatically go lighter on your judgement of the video? That tells you the person had little say in what he was working with, and numerous limits that other creators don't have. It also tells you that they didn't make the video for any reason other than competition - they didn't make it because they wanted to watch it. Does that make you care less about any emotional impact the vid might aim for - because it doesn't come from some personal incident on the part of the creator? Or do you see that and take it as just an interesting tidbit about the video - and then forget it and look at the video in and of itself?

How about those videos that are inspired by real life traumas? When you watch Titanic or Shindler's List, do you forget that real people died and just see it as another movie? Probably not. So does knowing that the creator made the video for a lost loved one mean you like the video more, or that you appreciate it more because it came from a real life trauma? Or do you forget the preface and just see it as another amv? And does the fact that the creator could easily be lying give you a cynicism about such prefaces? After all, some people still deny that millions of Jews were killed, and those people see Shindler's List as just another movie - because they don't believe the 'story' behind the story which makes it so powerful. Since almost any statement an amv creator makes is unverified, how much weight to you put on a statement when it comes to 'true story' traumas leading to more powerful emotional videos?

What about those romance vids done as gifts, or expressions of real life love? A man makes a song for his daughter and the listeners love it more because they know why he did it - they relate to the emotion that went into it, and see it more vividly because they know it was made *from* an emotion, not just as a way to make money. So how does that relate to amvs - does knowing someone made a video for his loved one make that video more powerful to you? Do you relate better to the emtions portrayed in the video once you know they were inspired by a real life emotion? Or do you take it as a gimic, a preface aimed to get a certain reaction?

How cynical are viewers when it comes to amvs? With novels and movies, the 'true story' preface is common and upfront about why it's there - to influence how the viewer sees that story. When it's given for an amv, do you see it as the same thing? And if you don't see any difference, does it work for amvs the way it does for movies? How often? What 'stories' affect you the most?

I haven't seen many vids that were based off of traumatic real life incidents, but I've seen a hundred or so of the 'made out of love' videos. For those, is there a limit to the number of times you can hear the same story and still be influenced by it? Do you build up a tolerance to the point where that story which used to influence how you viewed the video no longer works? If so, what stories move you more - influence you more? Two stories stand out among the variations of these that I've seen - the 'deep in love' and the 'past unfulfilled love'. Which gets you the most, the gift videos or the the ones that mourn or express anger over a failed relationship? If one influences you more - which one and why? Angst tends to hit people stronger than happiness in non-comedic genres, so does this apply to videos as well?

And then to turn the tables - to the ones who leave these prefaces for their vids - why?

Do you do it on purpose knowing the influence that 'story' might have? Or do you record the inspiration (the story of why the vid was made) just the way you would put down the software you used? If you do it for purely archiving reasons, have you ever left stories out so they wouldn't influence the viewer? How much sway do you think a story can have? Are certain stories more powerful (useful) than others, and if so, do you ration those powerful stories so the viewers don't get numb to them? Or do you not care one way or the other?

For the ones who write those inspiration stories - the prefaces for their videos - and don't care (or don't know) how they influence the viewers:
Do you think the fact that this is an illegal and fanbased hobby makes it different from movies or novels? Do you put no thought into how what you write in your vid description might influence the viewer who reads it? And if so - why write anything?

This comes down to one of those "how important is the vid description" questions. But I want to ask that to those who *care* about the vid descriptions. Again, if you never read them, or don't bother to write anything in your own - this question isn't for you. I know there are people who watch the vid and don't care about the person who made it and what he might have to say about it. This is a question for those who do read them, and who do write them - what do you take from them, and why do you write what you write in them?

[Kalium]

First off, well thought out and well written.

That being said, I find that video descriptions can explain a lot about the video. Like with any work of art, the source of inspiration, mindset, and other things change the art itself. If something about the video is odd, the description may explain it. It may make you understand why you feel what you do. Strong emotions tend to show through, no matter the medium.

When it comes to descriptions, I tend to take them with a grain of salt. If it doesn't add up, I ignore it. Usually, they make sense (few bother to lie). If there's an "Iron Chef" tag, I know that there's no emotional impact to look for, just entertainment.

I've just got one question: what prompted this?

[Arigatomina]

I've just got one question: what prompted this?

Just finished a vid for a very old songfic and was thinking whether or not I wanted to link to the original fic. o.O

But I've thought a lot about jacket covers (books) and such and how they prep the viewer/reader and influence them. Add that to the fact that I haven't hear much on how people see the prefaces (inspiration stories), and toss in a bit of boredom and you have a question being asked in the hopes of gaining insight. I'm bored and curious. ^.^

[madbunny]

First off, I'm also curious on what prompted this? While your posts are almost always categorically well thought out and eloquent, this one seems almost like a personal dilemma of sorts for you.

In my opinion, personal connection is likely to be one of those intangibles that can never be truly quantified, yet will always make a larger impact on any form of art work. I suppose that you could say, that an AMV is a hobby, basically a technical way for enjoy ones self for most, and a method of self esteem for others. Talent, and natural ability aside, the ingredient that makes a difference is always going to be personal investment, not of time but feelings. You know that old adage about how when you break up, or lose someone important suddenly country music starts to make sense? I think that this is probably similar in the creative arena as well. When the video selections you choose are based on how they make you feel, or how you feel instead of whether or not they fit between particular notes on a song then, yes it's more effective.

So, mostly to the viewers first, how much does motivation factor into how you watch a video? How important is the story behind the story - the person/inspiration behind the vid?

This can be a pretty big influence, usually if it's two teenagers trying to figure it out I'm less inclined to take it seriously than if it's based on a personal loss, or some life changing event. One of the more effective videos that I've seen along this line was actually a DBZ video that someone made (can't remember the name). Personal loss is one of someone. Mostly knowing the story, is just a method for putting the ideas onto context. If you know the general direction that a person was thinking in, then you are likely to reach the same conclusions they were.

How about those videos that are inspired by real life traumas? When you watch Titanic or Shindler's List, do you forget that real people died and just see it as another movie? Probably not. So does knowing that the creator made the video for a lost loved one mean you like the video more, or that you appreciate it more because it came from a real life trauma? Or do you forget the preface and just see it as another amv? And does the fact that the creator could easily be lying give you a cynicism about such prefaces? After all, some people still deny that millions of Jews were killed, and those people see Shindler's List as just another movie - because they don't believe the 'story' behind the story which makes it so powerful. Since almost any statement an amv creator makes is unverified, how much weight to you put on a statement when it comes to 'true story' traumas leading to more powerful emotional videos?

I covered this a bit above, but to use an example; listening to the actual words, transcribed or not of the abuse victims in the catholic priest court cases was soo much more powerful than any objective, or even creative example I've ever heard. One man, breaking down... his voice cracking as he relates "... as he pulled his hand away and told me 'this was just between us' I felt the ice cream he had bought me running down my arm melting into my clothing. I watched the car pull away and could not speak." Sure, this might count for an unverified story since I was not there, and did not know the full facts involved, but I'm sure this is what you are getting at? If I'm on the wrong track let me know.

What about those romance vids done as gifts, or expressions of real life love? A man makes a song for his daughter and the listeners love it more because they know why he did it - they relate to the emotion that went into it, and see it more vividly because they know it was made *from* an emotion, not just as a way to make money. So how does that relate to amvs - does knowing someone made a video for his loved one make that video more powerful to you? Do you relate better to the emtions portrayed in the video once you know they were inspired by a real life emotion? Or do you take it as a gimic, a preface aimed to get a certain reaction?

Romance videos are anothe arena entirely. For me the whole concept of love and commitment is more a journey of self discovery than finding someone who cares for you. Meeting my wife was a pretty eye opening experience for me, she didn't care that I was a dorky dancer, or how much money I made, and subsequently I stopped caring about what my outward image was and discovered that I was... happy. I didn't find her, I found me, and she was the one that enabled it. (probably makes no sense, but so what.) A gift is only valuable if it has intrinsic value. If I buy you lunch by donating $4.56 through paypal, you might think it was nice... (or creepy since we've never met), but instead if I was to spend a month collecting and your videos and packaging them into an anthology set of DVD's with professionally printed covers (lets ignore creep, and stalker factor here) then it would have a much greater intrinsic value as thought and preparation went into it.

This is a question for those who do read them, and who do write them - what do you take from them, and why do you write what you write in them?

The description only means something if it's put into context for me. It's like those inscriptions you see on peoples car windows "in loving memory of jake walker, texas ranger - died in the line of duty august 7th 1997"

I didn't know jake.. so I'm sure it's sad for them... but on the other hand if they took the time to tell me about Jake.. or what kind of person he was then it might be different.

I think that the people who spend time creating something based on true emotion, not just a display of technical ability deserve a chance to set their story into perspective. If they want to set the stage.. then all the better. If it's just a cheap gimmick to get a sympathy response, then I think that will show in the artwork they created as it wasn't based on the emotions they were trying to convey.

Sort of the difference between the opening scene of Saving private Ryan, based on historical facts and personal testimony -vs- the closing battle based on what the director thought would make a dramatic moment and let his characters die heroically.


Well, you put a lot of thought into your questions, I hope that I was able to answer them in the spirit they were asked.

[Arigatomina]

First off, I'm also curious on what prompted this? While your posts are almost always categorically well thought out and eloquent, this one seems almost like a personal dilemma of sorts for you.

I'm a reader, so the autobiographies and 'stories behind the stories' I see come after the book is read - once the reader researches the author to see why s/he did what s/he did. I focus mostly on fiction - with a majority of the nonfiction novels I read being written by people *other* than the ones whose stories are being told. Like watching Shindler's List - which was created by people who had no connection to those being portrayed (not the cast who were descendents of the originals - I mean the writers/director) - I get the "why we made this" after the movie, not before I watch it.

It's strange to me to see these prefaces - for true stories where actors are pretending to be the people who actually lived the events, I can see why you'd have to explain that it's real. For anime where characters are trying to express an emotion felt by a real person, I don't see it the same way. Unless one of those anime characters is supposed to be playing the part of the real person - acting out the 'true' story, I don't parallel that to 'true story' movies or novels. If someone did do that, I'd be stuck thinking of it as a self-insertion vid - which anyone who reads fanfiction knows is an insult to the creator.

It comes down to what I spent a good year debating in one of my lit classes - authorial intention. Should a person have to research the author before reading a book of his poetry? Should a reader be told exactly what a poem is about, where it came from, why it was written? Or should the piece be just what it is - relying on whatever value it holds outside of the author?

I have never found that researching an author made me react differently to his work. If anything, it killed the artistic nature of the piece - made it just another bit of writing done for the usual reasons. Cliche. He misses his childhood so he's writing about a red wagon - all of the creative imagery falls into a simple object and the magic is gone. It's like looking at the sun rise and knowing it's just a star - not some chariot drawing a ball of flame across the sky. I know, that's an extreme comparison, but it's true. If you classify something, it becomes just that.

An amv made to express the futility felt by someone contemplating suicide - and shown through a few clips from the animatrix is clear and set on what it is - because the creator labels it as such. It's no longer whatever the viewer sees it as - it's what the creator says it is in his vid description, or an attempt to display what the creator says he was aiming for in that description (for the times when he fails). Authorial intention, when given power over viewer interpretation, makes being a viewer a lousy thing. I can't watch an amv about Beldandy and that Keichi (sp) guy of hers and think of it in terms of how it effects me when I know for a fact that it's about how the creator's love for his girlfriend seems perfect and able to withstand those who try to tear them apart. I have no reason to watch it - I can just read the vid description and know exactly what it is, just what it was aiming for.

If I were to pick up a novel and flip open the jacket to see if it's something I might be interested in, how do you think I'd react if it read like a vid descriptoin? Take 'Door to December' by Dean Koontz - if it read like a vid description it would tell exactly what the book is about (a mysterious force stalking a mother who is trying to bring her near catatonic daughter back to normality), but it would be much more explicit. It would say that the purpose of the book is to surprise the viewer with the fact that it's actually the girl who's doing it - because the author wanted to have a mystery where the good guy is also the bad guy, so he could play on the 'evil within' theme that he'd been avoiding for his last few books. If I'd read that on the inside flap, I wouldn't need to read the book. I'd already know what it's about, why it was made, and what's in it.

Vid descriptions read like autobiographical excerpts - which is fine if they are read after the fact, by those who want to know more about the creator and where he got his idea from. But I look at them the way I would a movie or a book - even a fanfic - I look to see what the video is about and whether I would be interested in watching it. Half the vids I've gone through told me exactly what I'd be watching before I watched - some so detailed that I even knew what scenes were going to play before I ever downloaded the file.

It is a personal dilema because I still see vid descriptions as being that - descriptions of the vids to tell the potential viewer whether or not he might be interested, with a little side note for recordkeeping (inspiration, tools used - the credit given by the creator much like an author's note thanking his editor). And that's not the way people view vid descriptions - not when they're giving the stories behind the stories.

So I'm asking to better understand the way people view these things. Because (as usual), I'm not using the right outlook. I still view amvs as mini stories, or short entertainment pieces like a blurb in a magazine, or a joke in a reader's digest - only here they give away the punchline.

[AbsoluteDestiny]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/absolu ... 12485.html

[madbunny]

If I were to pick up a novel and flip open the jacket to see if it's something I might be interested in, how do you think I'd react if it read like a vid descriptoin? Take 'Door to December' by Dean Koontz - if it read like a vid description it would tell exactly what the book is about (a mysterious force stalking a mother who is trying to bring her near catatonic daughter back to normality), but it would be much more explicit. It would say that the purpose of the book is to surprise the viewer with the fact that it's actually the girl who's doing it - because the author wanted to have a mystery where the good guy is also the bad guy, so he could play on the 'evil within' theme that he'd been avoiding for his last few books. If I'd read that on the inside flap, I wouldn't need to read the book. I'd already know what it's about, why it was made, and what's in it.

Okay, I see what you're getting at.

Yes, the description makes a difference, but it should still be vague enough to let the viewer make the connections. Otherwise it's like reading a description on the cover of the sixth sense: Bruce Willis plays a ghost, already dead, yet not realizing it while he helps a young boy.

Love dedications tend to be, what you would call predictable by their nature anyway. I'd like to see a love video where the main character leaves it all behind and moves off to a mountain to herd sheep. [insert bad sheep joke here]

[CaTaClYsM]

Motivation matters about as much as mustard does on chocolate cake.

In otherwords. The only thing that matters is how good the video is.

[Corran]

I include a warning on my Iron Chef video not exactly so viewers will look at it in a way to bring more pleasure but so viewers can understand why they could be potentially disappointed. If they like it then I am glad.

There are just some videos that I woultn't be able to enjoy had I not known the background story.

---A Total Waste of 6min 35sec wouldn't have been quite as funny had I not known that the entire video mocked the appluase meter voting system they had at the contest it was in.

Sometimes background knowledge in general helps.

---I probally would have enjoyed Road to Iron Chef more had I known about www.homestarrunner.com at the time I watched it. And it certainly helps to know what an AMV Iron Chef is.
---It's Tricky to Make a Music Video is certainly entertaining but if you know that it is mocking other AMVs and you have seen some of the videos it plays off of it is even better.
---Excel Pop Up Video - It helps to have seen at least one VH1 pop up video.

Also having seen the anime used is a big background factor. Did a Grave of the Fireflies video impact you more before or after watching the Movie?

All of these add to the background of the video.

Basically the video profile is just another place to build upon the background information the viewer already has.

[Sushi2]

You didn't read up on "The Author is Dead" debate did you?

The importance of video descriptions depends upon the viewpoint taken and boils down to emotional connection to an AMV and how it occurs.

For a creator he/she may very well want to an extensive description just so the reader knows the effort put into the video, in fact not even for the reader, just so the creator himself has a chance to reflect on it. I mean if I spent months working on a AMV and there was something epic to spawn its creation, I would want to tell it. That is why for art I always write about intentions and emotions, for my sake not for someone else.

As for the viewer I would have to go along with the author is dead debate as the reasons behind the video is not really important to me. Worst case scenario is that they actually build up the AMV and it turns out to be a disapointment or as Arigatomyna stated:

If anything, it killed the artistic nature of the piece - made it just another bit of writing done for the usual reasons. Cliche. He misses his childhood so he's writing about a red wagon - all of the creative imagery falls into a simple object and the magic is gone.

In the end the importance of an AMV to a viewer does not depnd upon knowing the "motivation", it depends on them creating meaning from the text and relating to it, even if it is not the way the editor intended. The best AMVs I have watched are so because I feel as though I connect to them or that they represent a part of me.