Otakon AMV Master's Invitational

Org Profile · Post by **Vlad G Pohnert** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:55 am

Well, after giving the proposed contest some more thought, I think I'll just sum up my additional thoughts on it as feedback as follows:

- The current contest is considered by myself and others as quite prestigious being the one of the biggest contests and a very popular event. Creating a "Master" type contest will diminish this and thus have a negative effect on it in the long run.

- Making it “invite only” and giving it the better prizes just enforces this even further. It tends to sound like the present contest is not good enough and a better one must be created.

- I was always under the impression that Prizes, operating $$ for the AMV contest from was tight. If so, how will this change for this contest?

- Some have pointed out that AWA has a master contest so why not Otakon? Well, in my opinion, the way the contests have developed and the whole nature of the cons make it impossible to make a direct comparisons. AWA in general is a much smaller con where the contests have grown into the con and are part of what makes AWA what it is. Otakon is much bigger convention where it's AMV contest has become unique the way it is and I think this kind of contest does not fit into the cons “Character”.

- I realize the contest may be of good intent, but I think the way it was presented here makes it sound too much like a "private" contest, which will get the better budgeting and support. Frankly I enjoy the company of all my fellow creators and have always enjoyed entering into Otakon's contest on equal footing. Besides, will a contest like this generate better videos? I think not….

Vlad

StudioKZ · Post by **StudioKZ** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:09 am

HEhe... This is a joke, it's not even worth putting the effort into. I mean 'Personally Hand You An Invitation'? Come on, now...

Red Wolf · Post by **Red Wolf** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:06 am

BogoSort wrote:3. How is this going to be judged? Will there be a sekrit L33T panel like in AWA Masters?

I really wish people would stop comparing this to AWA Masters. The word "masters" aside they aren't even close to the same thing. AWA Masters is judged by the AWA VAT director. This is a known fact, he announces this every year at the awards ceremony.

And for the record the rules for AWA Masters in the past has only required that you have won at a recongized AMV contest within the last year. There is no invite list and even creators who can't attend AWA are allowed to submit entries in the last couple of years. It certainly limits the entries but it isn't nearly as elite as this.

BogoSort · Post by **BogoSort** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:17 am

Red Wolf wrote:
BogoSort wrote:3. How is this going to be judged? Will there be a sekrit L33T panel like in AWA Masters?
I really wish people would stop comparing this to AWA Masters. The word "masters" aside they aren't even close to the same thing. AWA Masters is judged by the AWA VAT director. This is a known fact, he announces this every year at the awards ceremony.

I never said that this idea was going to be just like the AWA Masters. I think that most people who are posting here, know the difference, just like they know that the format and rules are up for discussion. People mention the AWA Masters contest because it's probably the most prominent example of such a higher status contest, and they want to see how this idea could potentially deviate from that to make it fit within the Otakon model.

Personally I think that there's lots of potential for the strengths of Otakon to show through in a more competitive contest. There are lots of potential ideas for things to do to spice up the Otakon AMV contest.

And just to be nitpicky, from my understanding, the AWA Masters videos are judged by a panel, with their input contributing to the final decision which is made by the AWA VAT director.

MCWagner · Post by **MCWagner** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:31 am

BogoSort wrote: And just to be nitpicky, from my understanding, the AWA Masters videos are judged by a panel, with their input contributing to the final decision which is made by the AWA VAT director.

Sort of true. I have a panel. (They're hardly secret. This year it was two professionals from ADV on the technical stuff, and the previous year's winner, Fred Graupp.) But I could ignore them all if I wanted to.

As to the rest...well, I've got seperate concerns from the standpoint of an editor and as a contest runner.

As a contest runner, the only thing that really distresses me is that it's being called the "Master's Invitational" as I don't think it's very appropriate. It's not like we claim sole ownership of the "Master's" title, but ours was entirely based upon the local "Master's Championship" Golf tournament that takes place in Augsta (except, of course, we don't bar women from competing

) which is where the green jacket comes from. I would think that Otakon would want a similarly-locally-themed contest based on something native to their area.

As an editor.....well, I have never had the time or liberty to attend out of state contests, and I'm hardly known as a great editor (these last fallow years of the "AWA director's curse" haven't helped) so the odds are really dang good that I won't be invited (or anywhere within range to have an inviation handed to me). That said, it's hard to pass judgement on this idea without knowing more about it, like the scale of the invites. Iron Chef only requires two competitors, and the first year we ran it, we had real trouble getting that many editors. An invite-only contest with four categories would need at least a couple dozen entries, and to get that many final submissions, I'd guess you'd need to invite 40-45 editors, minimum. Alternately, it could turn out well if there's some key aspects of it we haven't been told yet.

Nappy · Post by **Nappy** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:40 pm

AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?). With this contest it would be a even smaller group of possible entrants, yet more catergories. Perhaps this one could still have alot of entrants, because its a personal invite and its a big contest, those invited might feel more obligated to make one >_>

Although, I think it would also cause a split with AWA's masters :\ (not that this contest should care about another con) I mean thats 2 exclusive videos made in around the same time. Some might need to choose one or the other, or do both but spend less time on both vids ._.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:48 pm

Nappy wrote:AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?).

Uhm..the numbers I heard were 40+ people entering the contest. The growth has been exponential.

MCWagner · Post by **MCWagner** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:58 pm

dwchang wrote:
Nappy wrote:AWA masters rules limit entrants, but winning at any recognized contest is still a very large group of ppl. But it still doesn't get that many entrants each year (over a dozen or so?).
Uhm..the numbers I heard were 40+ people entering the contest. The growth has been exponential.

Oh HELL no. 40+? Not even close. You might be thinking of the pro contest that got 54 entries, but Master's this last year got 16. Significant upward arc in submissions, but nowhere near exponential.

VegettoEX · Post by **VegettoEX** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:26 pm

I think the fact that most of the people expressing sentiments of caution concerning a new Otakon contest are past Otakon contest winners speaks great volumes. There's a deep love and loyalty for Otakon's AMV contest as-is, and any changes to that are potentially changing the way people might feel about the contest.

If there are extra resources to be dedicated to additional competitions, I'd rather see those resources placed with NON-competing showings. People are thoroughly expressing feelings that they don't wish to be placed on this golden pedestal ABOVE others; creating some kind of STANDARD way and place for EVERYONE to be shown together totally destroys any hint of "elitism" (god, do I hate that word, and I sincerely hope everyone else does, too).

Look at the fan-parody / trailer showings the last two years. There's been an entire ROOM dedicated to showing ONLY AMV and AMV-related (parodies, trailers) programming... and it's constantly packed with people. This should TELL us something. General con-goers WANT to see MORE of this kind of thing.

While trailers are still such a young concept, I'd love to see an organized, non-competiting showing of them. Sure, trailers are starting to seep over into contests and win awards (AWA), but I still think they're new enough that a con could really take a stand with non-competiting showings and let everyone be on equal ground, be shown together, and just have a good time.

Of course, I'm very biased (after seeing The Professional and Obligatory EVA Trailer played at Otakon 2K1 and 2K2, respectively), but watching a crowd that filled MORE than a single room want to see that kind of stuff...

The con is supposed to be for the general con-goers, not the AMV creators... I think if we pay attention to what THESE people want, it's showing they want more, more, more... and they don't care if its competiting, or not.

VegettoEX · Post by **VegettoEX** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:27 pm

Gah, fucked up my years. Thoughts / points still stand :P