So You Want to Start a Revolution?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Ashyukun
Medicinal Leech
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Post by Ashyukun » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:59 am

BogoSort wrote:Why should be mock someone for enjoying flashes in time with a beat, lip synch, using scenes of Vash dancing?
Because It's Tricky? :wink:

And DJ- Willow's got it right. From what I've seen as long as it's not something that will get him or the community into legal trouble, it's not a problem. The DB is what this site was created for and the main reason it still exists. Everything else here- however useful or important some may think they are- is just an accessory to the DB. Welcome to the Internet: Your Mileage May Vary.
Bob 'Ash' Babcock
Electric Leech Productions

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MAS PRODUCTIONS
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Post by MAS PRODUCTIONS » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:19 am

I have tried to keep up with this thread as best as I could. This is about all I have to say:

Personally I am tired of people acting as if this place is suppose to be a utopia where people dont do stupid things. Get over it, this place is created and manned by humans and such people will say stupid things. To act as if what they do is a mortal sin is just stupid, they are only typing words. Also these "I hate the org because people are assholes, so I'm leaving" threads are quite annoying. If you really wanted to leave you would have, why create a topic about leaving in a forum you must hate enough to leave? It's just people trying to get attention by threatening to leave or trying to get a point across that everyone is already aware of. This isn't focused on an individual, its just something I have noticed here lately.

As far as managing the org goes, just be thankful it exists, stop bitching that it doesn't go the way you want. If you dont like how things are done then leave, plain and simple. Phade is an extremely kind person to have created and maintained this site. I enjoy coming here. I enjoy the helpful posts, the hurtful posts, and the sarcastic posts. This is what the org is, it is life, just in typed words.
"What about us lesbians? . . . Your gonna burn in hell of course!" - MXC
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"Evil will always triumph 'cuz good is dumb!" - Dark Helmet

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Lyrs
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Post by Lyrs » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:38 pm

I don't see why people are using the score chart to measure their dicks or whatever, if that's what they are doing. The chart's there for the purpose and use of finding prime examples of good amvs for enjoyment. That's what this site was for or that's what i read when i joined.

and the fact is there are good videos on the chart, and although i haven't seen them all, i can say that i the ones that i have seen are exceptional. i don't think the chart should be taken down, i think the mentality of members should change.

anyway, i think this thread is silly considering that there are people starving, dying, getting shot, being raped, tortured, and abused all across the world and here we are. increadible, isn't it?
GeneshaSeal - Dead Seals for Free
Orgasm - It's a Science

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Flint the Dwarf
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Post by Flint the Dwarf » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:44 pm

Ashyukun wrote:Because It's Tricky? :wink:
NO MORE PUNS
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.

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Pie Row Maniac
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Post by Pie Row Maniac » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:58 pm

MAS PRODUCTIONS wrote:I have tried to keep up with this thread as best as I could. This is about all I have to say:

Personally I am tired of people acting as if this place is suppose to be a utopia where people dont do stupid things. Get over it, this place is created and manned by humans and such people will say stupid things. To act as if what they do is a mortal sin is just stupid, they are only typing words. Also these "I hate the org because people are assholes, so I'm leaving" threads are quite annoying. If you really wanted to leave you would have, why create a topic about leaving in a forum you must hate enough to leave? It's just people trying to get attention by threatening to leave or trying to get a point across that everyone is already aware of. This isn't focused on an individual, its just something I have noticed here lately.

As far as managing the org goes, just be thankful it exists, stop bitching that it doesn't go the way you want. If you dont like how things are done then leave, plain and simple. Phade is an extremely kind person to have created and maintained this site. I enjoy coming here. I enjoy the helpful posts, the hurtful posts, and the sarcastic posts. This is what the org is, it is life, just in typed words.
Agreed, 107%
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Nightowl
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Post by Nightowl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:58 pm

I haven't replied back to this forum for a bit because I wanted to see exactly what would happen, the discussion that would take place. That was the main intention of the post - to incite discussion. I know a great many people who feel the way I do, most of them simply aren't willing to stick their heads out. I wouldn't have made this post if I were the only one who felt this way.

This was already mentioned, but I am NOT leaving the .org. Nowhere in my posts did I say I was. I love AMVs, I love the forum; there are simply problems that need to be fixed. Once again, I am not the only person who thinks this. And how many of those "I'm leaving" or "I hate" threads have there been? I know of two, maybe three or four, at most. If you're allowed to post your opinion about my opinion of the general state of this forum, then I'm allowed to make the posts in the first place. If you want the freedom to speak, you can't have it both ways - how in the hell is this an "all about me" thread if it concerns the general AMV populace? The fact that anyone who hates my post then posted in it proves I got your attention.

I love AMVs. I love EVERY part of the .org. To me, these things DO matter. If you love something, why simply drop it so easily? FIGHT FOR IT. To just leave, give up, seems to be something people do these days. Can't deal with shit? Surrender. I refuse to do that. I want to bring it out in the open, see what people would say. When I first posted I knew some people would disagree, and that's good - it makes for a healthy discussion. No one person has all the answers. But I also knew if just one person agreed with me, then there IS a problem. And that's how change starts. Many people told me that what I'm doing is worthless, that it's pointless, and I should just give up. Well, I won't give up. I love it here. I love everything from general AMV to the off topic forums. I didn't pay my dues to the site just to split, and in doing that gives me a goddamned voice as well.

If nobody was willing to stand up and be specific, AND stick with it, fine. There were some things SpPanda said I did agree with, some I didn't. But by the time I got to his thread, it was too late and everything was done already. The one problem I saw that he did was apparently he named names. I don't think there's a problem with any individuals. It's the group mentality, the ganging up on people, the kill or be killed consumerist nature of the forums that gets on my nerves. And if you've created such a place, place people HAVE PAID FOR, there is a certain level of responsibility for. The advent of the donut changed a lot, in my eyes.

The org now IS better than it was. What I did enjoy back then was a certain level of respect people had for each other. I, too, have been on MUCH larger forums where that respect remained. I love this place. I don't want to see it fall to pieces.

More later.

-N

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Nightowl
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Post by Nightowl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:10 pm

Lyrs wrote:anyway, i think this thread is silly considering that there are people starving, dying, getting shot, being raped, tortured, and abused all across the world and here we are. increadible, isn't it?
THis has been said, in so many words, by various others on this thread as well. And you know, it's a bad argument. It always will be a bad argument. Why make videos? People are dying. Why leave the house? People are being raped. You know, I shouldn't fight for the ability to get my money back because I asked for no pickles on that cheeseburger - people are starving, I'd better worry about that for the rest of my life.

That's the kind of argument I used in high school. It's completely illogical and supports living one's life in a constant state of fear.

I care about this place, I see problems, there are others who would agree, I made a post. Anything else I would want to say concerning this topic would be in my post above. More as they come...

-N

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Nightowl
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Post by Nightowl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:27 pm

And ONE LAST THING I forgot to mention (I really need to think these things out first)!

When I said do a video with no effects, no frills, I didn't say ONLY make those videos - just try it. It can be for practice, or fun, or competing, whatever you want. Obviously, you don't have to, but it's good to stay in editorial shape. It's like training. I'm not saying EVERYBODY! EDIT THIS WAY NOW!! I mean, christ, has anyone seen the kind of video I do?! It's just good to get back to your roots, to understand how and why you do something before using the next big filter. Know where that filter came from and why somebody made it. There is a world outside of AMVs, and AMVs are built upon that world.

-N

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Kai Stromler
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Post by Kai Stromler » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:42 pm

Belady-Lehman says that any software system, given enough changes to it, will eventually and inevitably reach a state in which each attempt to fix something simply causes more problems. It can be argued from the paper that Quu posted in an accompanying thread that the Belady-Lehman curve also applies to these kinds of low-cost-of-access communities that you see on the internet: as more people join and try to do things that the original designers or organizers didn't intend them to do, things break. Anyone remember that journal crash a few months back where some recently joined members used the journal system as a chat or IM utility and blew up an old bug?

As that paper says, you can't really separate the technical and social. So keeping the .org from undergoing Usenet-style implosion is a technical and social responsibility. We can argue on all we want about art being non-scorable, and eventually some people will listen, but it'd also be possible to kill the top-10-percent hype by allowing users to mark videos as disallowing scores in opinions, and basing the 'top videos' on users' favorites lists, much the way that favorite anime are rated. We can complain to the mods about the forums filling up with offensive or useless posts, but a karma system based on site participation (usefulness in ops, insightful posts, donut contributions, etc) and a user-moderation threshold to send pointless threads to WOT would help enforce those community standards.

Of course, I haven't thoroughly looked ofer the requirements for either of thse changes, and I obviously don't have access to the .org's PHP engine and database structures, so they may very well be unimplementable or break enough stuff to make the Belady-Lehman situation worse. Maybe I will get around to working up a tentative system to send to Phade for comments and possible merge. Maybe someone else with more free time and more PHP experience will do so first. Maybe we collectively will be able to change the .org culture so that such technical changes won't be necessary. But, as Nate said, it's none of it going to happen unless people do *SOMETHING*.

The .org is great because some yobo from nowhere can make three butt-quality LBZ videos, make an ass of him/herself on the forums, and then, a year later, pick up enough info from here to make a masterpiece, win a major contest, and shock the world. The .org sucks because so many people join every day thinking they're already at the second stage and not still at the first. The .org is great because for less than the cost of a homepage that barely allows you to store a moderately sized image gallery, I can host dozens of inconsistently edited videos combining copyright-violating visuals with music nobody wants to listen to, and never worry about bandwidth charges. The .org sucks because too many people also think this is a great idea. The .org rocks because so many interesting/cool/weird/knowledgeable people hang out here. The .org sucks because it's online, and the standards of internet behavior are imposed, not the standards of a con party.

That's it. Forget the karma system, I'm going to work on an Internet Beer Protocol. In addition to the Golden Donut we'll have the Keg of Golden (taps and pumping to be funded by donation). That'll make everything work better.

--K
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Lyrs
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Post by Lyrs » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:49 pm

Nightowl wrote:
Lyrs wrote:anyway, i think this thread is silly considering that there are people starving, dying, getting shot, being raped, tortured, and abused all across the world and here we are. increadible, isn't it?
THis has been said, in so many words, by various others on this thread as well. And you know, it's a bad argument. It always will be a bad argument. Why make videos? People are dying. Why leave the house? People are being raped. You know, I shouldn't fight for the ability to get my money back because I asked for no pickles on that cheeseburger - people are starving, I'd better worry about that for the rest of my life.

That's the kind of argument I used in high school. It's completely illogical and supports living one's life in a constant state of fear.
You're so right. It is a poor arguement, except for the fact that you don't have to live in a state of constant fear. but i won't get into life styles, my arguements will likely be as illogical as it has already been. no sarcasm intended.

However, the purpose of the post wasn't to say that you shouldn't complain, just be aware that you're having it better than other people, and be happy with what you have, not that you can't improve on it.

I care about this place, I see problems, there are others who would agree, I made a post. Anything else I would want to say concerning this topic would be in my post above. More as they come...
-N
Anyway, i'm glad you're not making a "this site sucks, i'm leaving" thread, 'cause if anything, you're a valued member of the community, more so than some of us, and by that i mean myself, 'cause i'm many people. :roll:
GeneshaSeal - Dead Seals for Free
Orgasm - It's a Science

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