Anime Expo 2012 AMV Contest Thread - WINNERS ANNOUNCED!!!

[Rider4Z]

Rule B states that if you have your video on the org already you're screwed.

I have a request/suggestion. ALLOW AVATAR IN THE COMPETITION can of worms has been opened, have fun.

[Cyrix]

Personally I want everything to be fresh at the show, so sometimes I'm afraid to watch some of the regular finalists videos before AX. I never post a video I'm planning on submitting until after.

The editors behind me who spent the preshow complaining also criticized all of the videos in the list, since they'd seen them before. One of them joked "can I just vote for everything now and go home?"

[Seijin_Dinger]

Rule B states that if you have your video on the org already you're screwed.

I have a request/suggestion. ALLOW AVATAR IN THE COMPETITION can of worms has been opened, have fun.

I have to disagree about Avatar being allowed in, since it is not Japanese in origin and that would open the door to all other western animation. Once you allow one thing you have to allow all others to be fair.

can of worms has been closed.

[Seijin_Dinger]

here is the freshness rule I used

9: Entries must have been made during the time elapsed since the end of Sakura-Con 2011, and not won awards at more than two separate conventions.

The not won at more than 2 separate cons came into play this year, and I was asked why X video didnt make the finals. The entrant actually emailed me and pointed it out because they didnt see that rule before submitting.

[Brakus]

here is the freshness rule I used

9: Entries must have been made during the time elapsed since the end of Sakura-Con 2011, and not won awards at more than two separate conventions.

The not won at more than 2 separate cons came into play this year, and I was asked why X video didnt make the finals. The entrant actually emailed me and pointed it out because they didnt see that rule before submitting.

Yeah. I was about to say, make it a "nonwinners of 2 contests in its lifetime" rule, so that it won't be accused of trolling.

Otakon's rule has technically been "nonwinners of 1 contest other than AnimeNEXT" but that's only so that it doesn't "violate the spirit of the rule", so in essence Otakon is strictly a maiden affair. I tend to agree with Troy that *some* winners should have a shot at winning; I don't necessarily agree with multiple-award-winning videos going up against first-time starters though. Maybe you should make a category where all entrants have won at least 1 contest?

[Rider4Z]

I have to disagree about Avatar being allowed in, since it is not Japanese in origin and that would open the door to all other western animation. Once you allow one thing you have to allow all others to be fair.

exactly my point. i'd love to see other non-anime series included. it's not like the audience at AX would object to seeing Korra or MLP: FIM onscreen. if you'd like to argue that fact then i'd like to bring up that half of artists alley and cosplayers this year were either one or the other. perhaps a separate category for non-anime music videos.

nice try closing my can but you fell right into my trap!

[MisterFurious]

I think it would be better to try and adapt Otakon's rules into AX...

...like Otakon, if an AMV won first place somewhere else before a certain date, it gets DQ'd.

<Unpacks soapbox, stands on it>

A trolling rule like Otakon's hurts everyone. Besides the creator who is DQ'ed, it hurts the other creators, and it hurts the audience.

It may seem like it's fair to "give other creators a chance" against a video that has previously won elsewhere, but isn't the whole point of competition to see who is really "the best," not "the best of what hasn't won yet"? I mean, are we in elementary school, where everyone is supposed to get a shot at being on the dodge ball team?

Speaking for myself, winning at a contest where other entries were DQ'ed that were probably better than mine would be bittersweet at best. I want to have the opportunity to win fair and square against the best that can be seen in that contest. If any other creators are looking forward to an empty victory like that just for the sake of winning, then they're probably expecting a free ride from government programs, too (but I digress - see my rant about the entitlement mentality on my Facebook page).

I think we're all forgetting the Kevin Caldwell years. He won every award in every category, and enough director's chairs to open a bar, if he had managed to ship them all home. Did I bitch? Did I whine? Did I say, "that's not fair, give other creators a chance"? No. Instead, I stepped up my game and finally beat him in the Drama category in 2000. Competing with him made me a better editor.

How do these rules hurt the audience, you ask? It is hard for members of our community to believe, but there is still a large portion of convention attendees that don't bother with going to the full contest on night one, because they only care about the winners. Two years ago, when the awards ceremony was turned into a re-screen, there was a lot of complaining on other non-AMV message boards about how AX "forced" attendees to watch all the nominees because, "I only wanted to see the winners." At Otakon, DQ'ed videos are screened in blocks with all the other entries that didn't make the finals. Needless to say, these are far less attended than the finalist screening, so not only does the creator "lose" because of winning, but the audience that goes to the contest to see the best videos at the con actually are not, because the ones that won previously are not allowed in.

Even Otakon's trolling rule is imperfect at best, because the cut-off date is the entry deadline. This leaves the field wide open to videos that have won at cons that take place after their deadline (including AX), meaning that Otakon is "the best of what hasn't won anything before <insert entry deadline here>." I realize that the purpose of this is so that creators have a chance to submit something else if their video is DQ'ed, but IMHO, if there is to be a real trolling rule, creators have to accept the possibility that if their video wins an award at some other, smaller convention, they may get left out of AX without a chance to re-submit. That will give them an incentive to submit to AX first, which is what I think is the real objective here.

Further, every convention is different. Every audience is different. Videos that win at one convention may not necessarily win at AX, either because the audience doesn't quite get it, there are more videos in that category, or (shock) someone happens to make a better video. In 2004 my video, "That'll Do," won Drama at FanimeCon, but didn't make the finals at AX. On the other hand, "Signal to Noise" didn't make the finals at FanimeCon in 2006, but ended up winning Best in Show at AX. Trolling rules are completely unnecessary. The contests sort themselves out.

DQ'ing videos for winning is the same as telling Steven Spielberg, "I'm sorry, Mr. Spielberg, but 'Schindler's List' has won too many awards already, so I'm afraid it's not eligible for the Academy Awards." If AX is to have a reputation as a quality AMV contest, then it needs to operate at a higher level than other conventions. That means that if a video wins elsewhere, let it try its hand at AX and let the chips fall where they may.

I would be more agreeable to AX having an exclusivity rule like Japan Expo instead of an anti-trolling rule.

<Steps off soapbox, calmly walks away>

[Seijin_Dinger]

I have to disagree about Avatar being allowed in, since it is not Japanese in origin and that would open the door to all other western animation. Once you allow one thing you have to allow all others to be fair.

exactly my point. i'd love to see other non-anime series included. it's not like the audience at AX would object to seeing Korra or MLP: FIM onscreen. if you'd like to argue that fact then i'd like to bring up that half of artists alley and cosplayers this year were either one or the other. perhaps a separate category for non-anime music videos.

nice try closing my can but you fell right into my trap!

I will counter that while as a whole that an anime convention should be limited to anime, those selling merchandise in both the exhibits hall, as well as artist alley pay for the opportunity to have that space thus they should be free to sell whatever merchandise they wish as long as it is in accordance with local laws.

Cosplay is a harder area to police due to the amount of people who do cosplay and enforcing any sort of anime only rule would not only be impossible, but would also be a bad PR move. Also again attendees pay to attend the convention.

The more controllable situations of he contests can easily enforce rules that limit content to Japanese origin only, and by submitting to those contests you also agree to abide by those rules. And while attendees pay to attend the convention to enter cosplay contests, most AMV contests do not require convention attendance or purchase of tickets/memberships (depending on their structure) to compete

[XStylus]

I have to disagree about Avatar being allowed in, since it is not Japanese in origin and that would open the door to all other western animation. Once you allow one thing you have to allow all others to be fair.

exactly my point. i'd love to see other non-anime series included.

Hate to tell you, but for 2013 I'm very likely going the opposite direction. Video game fans probably won't be too happy with me, for starters.

[Rider4Z]

It may seem like it's fair to "give other creators a chance" against a video that has previously won elsewhere, but isn't the whole point of competition to see who is really "the best," not "the best of what hasn't won yet"? I mean, are we in elementary school, where everyone is supposed to get a shot at being on the dodge ball team?

i agree with brad. if AX is to have a FRESH rule, then it should be like Akross (and i guess Japan Expo) where it has to premiere AT Anime Expo.