Using clips from other AMVs and identifying them

[Shin-AMV]

I think it depends on the amount taken or what kind of scenes where taken. My position is similar to how copyright law is setup in regards with infringement cases and whether the taking is substantially similar to the original or if its insubstantial or transformative of the original. Although, in both cases for the law in infringement cases and editors stealing/borrowing/taking clips there is a lot of vague middle ground and there is going to be some dispute. I think most of the time when its noticeable, its as Bashar said that the editor is either being either lazy or trying to claim credit.

One clip/scene from an AMV is generally not an issue, and a generic sequence of hard cuts that runs linear with the original anime no one will probably notice anyways. I think when its taking the creativity of a certain sequence of events put together is where its towing the line. I think it a major problem if someone takes heavily edited scenes and put them to a different song. Imagine someone putting Euphoria, Pencilhead, and Attack of the Otaku together and made Euphoria of the Otakuhead or something. While it might be cool as an inside joke or an homage or something, someone taking credit for all that previous editing would be a little disheartening and disingenuous.

[Nya-chan Production]

I wouldn't mind Euphoria of Otakuhead if done nicely and credited |:

[Shin-AMV]

I think it'd be cool too, as long as the original editors are ok with it and they are given their proper credits. If its a go with them, someone must make it so. :3

[bladedude101]

If you take a clip because you can't find the clip in the anime or you don't have the source etc. That's essentially the same as using the source originally anyway. If you're taking clips with transitions and effects then you're just stealing work. Taking someone else's editing and putting it into your video is just silly and lazy. Also, you can say "hey but we do the same thing to the anime companies" but in reality we're not. We take something and make something else with it. If you take an AMV and make an AMV with it it's a completely different case. Would you watch an anime where they took your favorite anime and just put new voices and changed the story(unless it was in parody) Probably not, not to mention the original anime creator would sue the shit out of the new creator. As editors we borrow other people's works to create something new. If you're just taking someone else's work and placing it into your work without the intent of modifying it then you're just cutting corners and stealing. The idea is to create through your own effort, not piggyback off the effort of others.

There is a billion examples that fit into this.

If you're making music and you take a song and make a dubstep/remix out of it, then damn nice work.
If you make a dubstep song and you just take half of someone else's dubstep song to make yours, then you're using their effort for you gain and you're stealing.

If you color a manga panel, you're creating and it's cool.
If you take a colored manga panel from someone else and then put it in a "colored manga chapter" book and don't credit them, you're stealing, you should have to re-color every panel yourself. Not kiddy-corner off of other people's colorings, especially without their permission.


That's my stance on it anyway.

[Emong]

I'm starting to like this discussion

@bladedude101,
It's more ambiguous than that. This whole thread is basically trying to deal with the problem of applying property rights to symbolic substance but no matter how you try to go around with it you'll end up drawing the lines somewhere where they don't really belong. This amongst other things is why I'm totally against copyright but that's a whole another topic. I claim the only reason why we're so mad about someone using other AMVs in their own AMV is because it's so clearly visible and easy to point out. But what about those things that all of us "steal" from other editors (AKA influence) and elements that were once original but have been universalized since? I could easily imagine how certain elements like character masking or "oversync" were actually original and any other editor doing the same could be accused of ripping off someone else. These are now standard elements of AMVs. Ofcourse you can still say this is just implicit influence and directly using other AMVs is a whole another thing, and you would be right but in what sense? I think this problem is not substantial but a purely formal one. It's correct to say that it's formally and effectively a rip off but to claim that this somehow contrasts the superior creativity and originality of us honest editors is false. We merely do indirectly what those directly ripping off other AMVs do directly. Ofcourse there are creative elements to editing but I claim they're basically at the level of bigger or smaller contributions and remixing. We should stay humble here

[HalOfBorg]

If someone used say my 'turn to sand & fall away' scene from 'Legend' - without even just a simple credit (or asking first), I'd be all upset (and honored).
If they used the same style of effect but created it themselves - then I'd just go with the honored part.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Can the amateur philosophical BS. Imitation of style and technique is not the same thing as copying of end-result product. You did not innovate in a vacuum, you learned things from other people. Your technique and style is irreverent to the conversation - everyone is in the same boat as you. Your produced product, on the other hand, is the result of your work. It's quantifiable. Only you made it.

Note: I'm not making any proclamations about the seriousness of any of this (it really isn't). I'm just here to tear apart stupid analogies and comparisons.

[l33tmeatwad]

Can the amateur philosophical BS. Imitation of style and technique is not the same thing as copying of end-result product. You did not innovate in a vacuum, you learned things from other people. Your technique and style is irreverent to the conversation - everyone is in the same boat as you. Your produced product, on the other hand, is the result of your work. It's quantifiable. Only you made it.

Note: I'm not making any proclamations about the seriousness of any of this (it really isn't). I'm just here to tear apart stupid analogies and comparisons.

[trythil]

Your technique and style is irreverent to the conversation

It would also depend on how noticeable you want to make it...

It's very noticeable to me. Maybe you just haven't looked for it.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Damn you auto-correct!