Anime Expo 2010 Iron Chef AMV Contest

[Rider4Z]

I thought the whole event turned out very well especially for being pulled together relatively last minute. i was so surprised at how full the room got and even more so seeing how many people actually stayed for the full 3 hours. we're gonna need a bigger room next year. Brad, you were an excellent emcee and i could see how much fun you had doing it. how was the pepper? you and mr. stylus were great about answering questions and allowing interaction not just with the iron chefs but others who had suggestions to give as well. Kudos to Nic for all the "behind the scenes" work such as ripping footage and all the other stuff he didn't originally know brad was gonna give him to do

i am VERY flattered that i was asked to be an iron editor, thank you so much. this was my first AMV Iron Chef and i feel very proud to be considered "iron" hey yeah, we didn't get any hats....

Anyway, i gave Nic my flashdrive with most of the m&g playlist and didn't even think to put any of my own in there (aside from my crummy naruto vid) so i'll remember for next year

Thanks for making it happen Brad and Troy! AX first AMV Iron Chef was totally awesome!

[machina21]

I hads me a pretty good time meself, although i've never seen an Iron Chef event so ignorance is bliss I guess.

[Radical_Yue]

Also, two weeks meant that you had enough time to buy the computers and not test anything? At all? Such as the projectors...or maybe rendering, etc?

Once again, not trying to be Hitler, but please, for the love of all that is good and holy...start taking advice from people that have gone to/worked on Iron Chefs.

Look at this thread, everyone who says this is their first Iron Chef says it was amazing. Everyone who has gone to Iron Chefs in the past says that it avoided disaster by the skin of it's teeth.
Who should you be listening to?

[MisterFurious]

My review of the event...Don't worry, I won't be Hitler this time around

Troy and I both edited Hitler vids this year, and he doesn't resemble you, so there is no need to worry about confusion.

First off I'm really not a fan of the way the competitors were chosen in the first place...If you're chosen as the main competitor, who would you choose as you challenger? An editor than you know/believe has better skills? Or someone you've never heard of and hasn't edited in forever? The obvious choice would be someone you think you can beat. No one wants to lose in front of a large room of people.

I wanted to emulate the way the competition is done on Food Network, not because I'm married to the show, but because it's a little more exciting than just having two previously-selected editors face off against each other. It gives the challenger a little bit of an advantage, in fact, since, just as you say, they will want to choose someone they think they can beat. This puts the pressure on the Iron Chef to step up. However, it didn't work in this case, so your argument that the strategy gives the challenger an unfair advantage was rendered moot.

And if someone doesn't want to lose in front of a large room full of people, they don't have to participate. That's the nature of a competition. There has to be a winner and there has to be a loser. If you don't like losing, don't play. Simple as that.

BaitMaster has nothing to be ashamed of. He accepted the challenge, chose an Iron Chef he thought he could beat, then stepped up his game by making a video more than twice the length of Wired Knight's, with a long lip-synch sequence at the beginning. Very impressive.

The secret source was pretty obscure. When it was announced and during the 3 minute clip of it playing the general consensus was "What the heck is that?" I personally believe in using sources that the crowd can be excited about seeing. Something they'll want to wait for 3 hours to see in a video. While AMV contests are about the best of the best, Iron Chefs would not survive without the audience who shows up to watch the spectacle and we've all seen how they cheer whenever they see an anime they know/like on screen.
It's kinda like showing up to a concert to find out that you don't know any of the bands and aren't really interested in the genre of music.

The editors knew five of the sources a week before the competition, and were allowed to bring any music they wanted. If the secret ingredient wasn't obscure, where would the challenge be? They all could have practically edited their videos at home and just re-created them at the contest.

Now as for the "success" of the competition...You do realize that you lost about 40% of the crowd within the first hour? And that they only came back when videos were being played... While QA is a great aspect to any AMV 101 panel it's NOT something that people come to ICs for. In case you didn't notice most of the questions were deep technical questions or basic "What's better, Vegas or Premiere?" Now, as for the tech questions...have you caught on to the fact that...when you answer this question the only one who understands the answer is the person asking and maybe 2% of the audience, if that. The rest of the attendees are forced to listen to droning tech nonsense for 5+ minutes.
While I kind of like the idea of "Hey, if you want to see what they're up to, feel free to walk around and take a look at their screens." Answering tech questions for long periods of time is NOT a way to keep the audience entertained. As for the more simplistic questions, you can rule all these out by passing around simple flyers that include information about basic editing programs such as Vegas, Premiere, etc...and the programs used for converting footage, IE the AMVAPP.

I totally agree (although I am skeptical of your 40% figure - I kept seeing the same people in the same seats through the whole contest). We went too technical, but if you recall from my previous posts, up until you and Kit approached and offered to get us some AMV's to run, we had precious few, so we were forced to fill time with a technical discussion.

I was sitting next to a young fan that I've never met before and each and every time the technical rambling would begin, she'd slam her head down on the table. She didn't understand anything, she wasn't amused and neither was the other 97% of non-editing con goers in the room.
People that want to edit will show up for the AMV 101 panel, people who are looking for a fun show with lots of AMVs go to an Iron Chef.
I could see her frustration and I started to explain the basic concept of other Iron Chefs to her; non stop videos being played, games being played and audience involvement that keeps everyone entertained. She told me that it sounded like one of the most fun events ever
Never once has our ace Iron Editor host Ashykun stopped to answer pointless tech questions and generate the feeling of "I could leave right now, come back...and he'd still be talking -_-" <-That's an actual quote from another attendee that I've never met before.

Once again, I agree. We got too technical. We'll have lots of AMV's to run, and the editors witll have desk lamps on their desks, so we can turn out the house lights to watch AMV's without bothering them. Moving on...

The Iron Chef could have been muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.

Of course the event could have been better. It was the first year, and we only had two weeks to prepare. How much time have you had to prepare for Nan Desu Kan's Iron Chef contest? Would you have been able to pull it off in two weeks? How about if you had been trying to get Nan Desu Kan to schedule it, but they had been saying "no" for ten years? I think it's unfair to compare apples and oranges. As a convention, AX is horribly crippled by its own bureaucracy, so when presented with an opportunity to put on an Iron Chef competition there, we jumped at the chance to present it any way we could. Now that that's done, of course we want to do better.

But I'm really looking forward to talking with Nic (StudioHybrid/KagatoAMV) because he seemed really open to changing things and making this into an excellent event. I'd also like to invite him and any other to the Iron Chef even we're putting on at Nan Desu Kan in Denver, Colorado. You'd be more than welcome to join us.

I am confused by this statement, since it seems to imply that I am not interested in improving this contest. I guess you haven't read my previous posts where I have invited everyone to make suggestions for next year, and I have promised to listen. You will note that I have tackled all of your points in this reply, and that I have even agreed with some of them.

I would love to come to Nan Desu Kan. I've been wanting to go for years, but I can't afford it. Does this make me a bad person?

You get a sideways thumb for this event only due to Kit saving it with the AMVs.
Lets make next year a

Heck, I'm glad we had an event at all!

[MisterFurious]

Also, two weeks meant that you had enough time to buy the computers and not test anything? At all? Such as the projectors...or maybe rendering, etc?

We didn't buy the computers. Troy had to piece them together from old server machines in his studio. AX gave us no money whatsoever. We tested as best as we could without being at the venue.

Once again, not trying to be Hitler, but please, for the love of all that is good and holy...start taking advice from people that have gone to/worked on Iron Chefs.

I thought that was what I was doing. Am I not being clear enough in asking for advice for next year, or should I be posting in another language? German, perhaps?

I'm sorry we didn't contact you, but we simply didn't have time to consult with anyone once AX gave us the opportunity for this year's contest, and we thought it was better to put up a contest, any contest, no matter how slap-dash, rather than let the opportunity slip. That was a judgment call, and guess what? It worked out in the end. Sue me.

Look at this thread, everyone who says this is their first Iron Chef says it was amazing. Everyone who has gone to Iron Chefs in the past says that it avoided disaster by the skin of it's teeth.
Who should you be listening to?

I should be listening to the first-time attendees for this event, since it was, in fact, the first time at AX, and they will come back next year. However, now that we have time, we can listen to other, more experienced people for suggestions. Is that a problem, or would you prefer to dwell on the past and continue to rant about this year?

[Otohiko]

I don't want to go into rants or debates with people, so I'll try to be brief.

I think the Iron Chef could be considered a success, but only at a level of a small, under-prepared anime-related gathering. The technical side of it was pretty hairy and the way things were organized was really poor, although was accepted well by a rather gracious audience that was all too happy when it was actually entertained.

When given that it's at AX, a gigantic anime con with the resources it OUGHT (though perhaps not to say does) have, this was really unprofessional and poorly run. Look, you can excuse this as much as you wish with the fact that it was all impromptu, last-moment and neglected by the larger con organization, but those things really won't make it look better to the average attendee or give much credence to Iron Editor competitions as a serious part of the con. Purely as a large AV event at a con, it was unacceptable. What saved it were entertaining videos and a generous audience, neither of which any of the (official) organizers of the event can take much credit for (besides editing credits).

So let's stop congratulating ourselves here and focus on what can be done for it next year. This shouldn't be about credit due, because very little is due. This should be about things to fix, of which there's many.

[Pwolf]

Is that a problem, or would you prefer to dwell on the past and continue to rant about this year?

Yea, lets do that

[MisterFurious]

lots of stuff

When did I say this? I was quoted out of context....

But yea, 2 weeks isn't a lot of time to do EVERYTHING. I think the fact that the IC was even allowed to happen is a good step towards bringing AMVs back into the spotlight at AX. I hope next year the tech problems are worked out and the show is more enjoyable for the attendees.

That is the plan.

PS: I heard you guys were using CS4 as the editing software... for the love of god, don't use CS4 It crashes more and exporting causes problems in of itself. if you can get better hardware, CS5 is very stable and fast. For a cheaper solution, 6.5 or 7 would probably be the best choice of software IMO.

Premiere 6.5 was also installed on the machines. The editors were made aware of this, and of the technical specifications of the computers, but they both proceeded with using CS4. It was their call.

It's my hope that next year we'll have better machines capable of running CS5, but we'll leave CS4 and 6.5 in there, too, just in case.

[XStylus]

First off I'm really not a fan of the way the competitors were chosen in the first place...If you're chosen as the main competitor, who would you choose as you challenger? An editor than you know/believe has better skills? Or someone you've never heard of and hasn't edited in forever? The obvious choice would be someone you think you can beat. No one wants to lose in front of a large room of people.
While I don't agree with the process, it's your choice in how you want to run it.

The method we chose mimics the real method that the original Iron Chef show functions. I noticed that other cons featuring such an event generally have the winner be the reigning champion that future challengers have to beat. I don't know if we'll be switching to that format, but since this was the inaugural event and there was no reigning champion, this was as good a method as any.

The secret source was pretty obscure. When it was announced and during the 3 minute clip of it playing the general consensus was "What the heck is that?" I personally believe in using sources that the crowd can be excited about seeing.

Obscurity was the idea. If you've ever been to other conventions that hold such an event, they choose ridiculous sources such as the DBZ live-action movie. I expect that we'll continue to choose sources that rank high on the "WTF" scale. As for the determination of what's "exciting," that's in the eye of the beholder.

Now as for the "success" of the competition...You do realize that you lost about 40% of the crowd within the first hour?

It was actually 20% actually, though Brad and I were expecting a rate of 40% churn. That's normal for this event at other conventions. And more interestingly, people started leaving roughly about the time when people were starting to line up for Masquerade. I think we managed to keep people's interest and attention pretty well throughout the event. If you and your cohorts weren't interested in the commentary, no prob. Niotex might enjoy some company.

The Iron Chef could have been muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better. But I'm really looking forward to talking with Nic (StudioHybrid/KagatoAMV) because he seemed really open to changing things and making this into an excellent event. I'd also like to invite him and any other to the Iron Chef even we're putting on at Nan Desu Kan in Denver, Colorado. You'd be more than welcome to join us.

While the chance to reciprocate in kind and nitpick at your event is tempting, I'll respectfully pass. Thanks.

...Though I will be at Otakon to see their Iron Editor event and gain insight on where we can improve. While our event doesn't remotely compare to theirs, I maintain that ours was as good as it could be for a first year event organized on the quick. This was a successful event, and it will only get better.

[Radical_Yue]

My review of the event...Don't worry, I won't be Hitler this time around

Troy and I both edited Hitler vids this year, and he doesn't resemble you, so there is no need to worry about confusion.

It was a joke

First off I'm really not a fan of the way the competitors were chosen in the first place...If you're chosen as the main competitor, who would you choose as you challenger? An editor than you know/believe has better skills? Or someone you've never heard of and hasn't edited in forever? The obvious choice would be someone you think you can beat. No one wants to lose in front of a large room of people.

I wanted to emulate the way the competition is done on Food Network, not because I'm married to the show, but because it's a little more exciting than just having two previously-selected editors face off against each other. It gives the challenger a little bit of an advantage, in fact, since, just as you say, they will want to choose someone they think they can beat. This puts the pressure on the Iron Chef to step up. However, it didn't work in this case, so your argument that the strategy gives the challenger an unfair advantage was rendered moot.

And if someone doesn't want to lose in front of a large room full of people, they don't have to participate. That's the nature of a competition. There has to be a winner and there has to be a loser. If you don't like losing, don't play. Simple as that.

BaitMaster has nothing to be ashamed of. He accepted the challenge, chose an Iron Chef he thought he could beat, then stepped up his game by making a video more than twice the length of Wired Knight's, with a long lip-synch sequence at the beginning. Very impressive.

All I was saying was that I don't personally like the way you guys did it. That's all. If that is how you want to run it, by all means...do so

The secret source was pretty obscure. When it was announced and during the 3 minute clip of it playing the general consensus was "What the heck is that?" I personally believe in using sources that the crowd can be excited about seeing. Something they'll want to wait for 3 hours to see in a video. While AMV contests are about the best of the best, Iron Chefs would not survive without the audience who shows up to watch the spectacle and we've all seen how they cheer whenever they see an anime they know/like on screen.
It's kinda like showing up to a concert to find out that you don't know any of the bands and aren't really interested in the genre of music.

The editors knew five of the sources a week before the competition, and were allowed to bring any music they wanted. If the secret ingredient wasn't obscure, where would the challenge be? They all could have practically edited their videos at home and just re-created them at the contest.

I'm not saying that the secret ingredient has to be "obvious source is obvious." It'd just be nice if ANYONE knew what is was. It's always fun to generate the reaction of "Holy crap! This source! I love it! I can't wait to see how they work it in!" Or even something goofy that everyone KNOWS of such as the Star Trek animated series that was chosen one year for a previous Iron Chef. Obscure is fine, but just don't make it so obscure that the audience feel alienated.

Now as for the "success" of the competition...You do realize that you lost about 40% of the crowd within the first hour? And that they only came back when videos were being played... While QA is a great aspect to any AMV 101 panel it's NOT something that people come to ICs for. In case you didn't notice most of the questions were deep technical questions or basic "What's better, Vegas or Premiere?" Now, as for the tech questions...have you caught on to the fact that...when you answer this question the only one who understands the answer is the person asking and maybe 2% of the audience, if that. The rest of the attendees are forced to listen to droning tech nonsense for 5+ minutes.
While I kind of like the idea of "Hey, if you want to see what they're up to, feel free to walk around and take a look at their screens." Answering tech questions for long periods of time is NOT a way to keep the audience entertained. As for the more simplistic questions, you can rule all these out by passing around simple flyers that include information about basic editing programs such as Vegas, Premiere, etc...and the programs used for converting footage, IE the AMVAPP.

I totally agree (although I am skeptical of your 40% figure - I kept seeing the same people in the same seats through the whole contest). We went too technical, but if you recall from my previous posts, up until you and Kit approached and offered to get us some AMV's to run, we had precious few, so we were forced to fill time with a technical discussion.

Fine then, 30% Either way, every time I turned around I saw people leaving in large groups. Two weeks is a very short period of time to put together an Iron Chef but it takes about an hour before you leave for a con, where you know you'll be entertaining an audience, to fill a drive with plenty of fun/comedy AMVs.

I was sitting next to a young fan that I've never met before and each and every time the technical rambling would begin, she'd slam her head down on the table. She didn't understand anything, she wasn't amused and neither was the other 97% of non-editing con goers in the room.
People that want to edit will show up for the AMV 101 panel, people who are looking for a fun show with lots of AMVs go to an Iron Chef.
I could see her frustration and I started to explain the basic concept of other Iron Chefs to her; non stop videos being played, games being played and audience involvement that keeps everyone entertained. She told me that it sounded like one of the most fun events ever
Never once has our ace Iron Editor host Ashykun stopped to answer pointless tech questions and generate the feeling of "I could leave right now, come back...and he'd still be talking -_-" <-That's an actual quote from another attendee that I've never met before.

Once again, I agree. We got too technical. We'll have lots of AMV's to run, and the editors witll have desk lamps on their desks, so we can turn out the house lights to watch AMV's without bothering them. Moving on...

To be 100% honest, I don't understand the point of them needing lights. But if it'll help em, that's cool. (Most of the editors I know, myself included, edit in the dark >_>)

The Iron Chef could have been muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.

Of course the event could have been better. It was the first year, and we only had two weeks to prepare. How much time have you had to prepare for Nan Desu Kan's Iron Chef contest? Would you have been able to pull it off in two weeks? How about if you had been trying to get Nan Desu Kan to schedule it, but they had been saying "no" for ten years? I think it's unfair to compare apples and oranges. As a convention, AX is horribly crippled by its own bureaucracy, so when presented with an opportunity to put on an Iron Chef competition there, we jumped at the chance to present it any way we could. Now that that's done, of course we want to do better.

To be 100% honest, yeah. I believe we could. I'm not trying to sound elitist but since I've been to quite a few Iron Chefs and I know many people that are involved I feel it would be an easy thing to set up. While finding the editors and picking the sources would be a bit of a challenge, the rest of the event is rather simple.
1) Get two computers of equal capacity (Which we already had before we even thought about doing an Iron Chef)
2) Fill a drive with AMVs to watch during the Iron Chef
3) Decide on some game to play with said AMVs
4) Profit?

I'll give you guys credit for the Iron Chef in general. All I'm sayin is that there could have been quite a bit more done in those two weeks. If xstylus was busy with the computers and Nic was busy getting the sources ready, couldn't you have been preparing a playlist? Not a work of art, just some fun AMVs to fill a couple hours. Kit did it while the contest was running with an external he wasn't planning to bring. I'd love to see what he could do with two weeks.

But I'm really looking forward to talking with Nic (StudioHybrid/KagatoAMV) because he seemed really open to changing things and making this into an excellent event. I'd also like to invite him and any other to the Iron Chef even we're putting on at Nan Desu Kan in Denver, Colorado. You'd be more than welcome to join us.

I am confused by this statement, since it seems to imply that I am not interested in improving this contest. I guess you haven't read my previous posts where I have invited everyone to make suggestions for next year, and I have promised to listen. You will note that I have tackled all of your points in this reply, and that I have even agreed with some of them.

I would love to come to Nan Desu Kan. I've been wanting to go for years, but I can't afford it. Does this make me a bad person?

Sorry, but Nic was the only one running this event that actually sat down, listened to criticism and didn't say "We'll think about it." We sat there and talked, he was friendly, open, and said "Those are excellent ideas! Let's do that!" Even when we attempted to talk to the two of you after AMV 101, you seemed a bit too busy on your iphone to even look me in the eyes :/ Hence why I'm a bit more excited about working with Nic. Not saying that you're a horrible person because you apparently had a lot going on at the time or something, but if you were put in that situation where one person was like "Holy crap! We can make this kick ass! Let's do it!" and the other person was staring at his shoes the entire time, what would you think?
I told him straight up what I thought about the events and the two of you and yet he still seemed really excited to work with us (Me, Kisanzi, etc...) on making these events spectacular.

Sorry you can't come, and you're not a bad person for it I was just extending the offer.
I'll try an organize it so the event is recorded so we can share certain aspects of it. In the meantime, feel free to watch the previous videos I linked.

You get a sideways thumb for this event only due to Kit saving it with the AMVs.
Lets make next year a

Heck, I'm glad we had an event at all!

Now it's time to change it from an event to a real IRON CHEF TOURNAMENT

Also, two weeks meant that you had enough time to buy the computers and not test anything? At all? Such as the projectors...or maybe rendering, etc?

We didn't buy the computers. Troy had to piece them together from old server machines in his studio. AX gave us no money whatsoever. We tested as best as we could without being at the venue.

I know AX totally left you guys in the dust. All I was suggesting was to drop some footage on the timeline to make sure that a program you're completely unfamiliar with works.

Once again, not trying to be Hitler, but please, for the love of all that is good and holy...start taking advice from people that have gone to/worked on Iron Chefs.

I thought that was what I was doing. Am I not being clear enough in asking for advice for next year, or should I be posting in another language? German, perhaps?

I'm sorry we didn't contact you, but we simply didn't have time to consult with anyone once AX gave us the opportunity for this year's contest, and we thought it was better to put up a contest, any contest, no matter how slap-dash, rather than let the opportunity slip. That was a judgment call, and guess what? It worked out in the end. Sue me.

Just because something "worked out" doesn't mean it couldn't have been better.
But in the end, shoulda, coulda, woulda. I just want to fix it next year.

Look at this thread, everyone who says this is their first Iron Chef says it was amazing. Everyone who has gone to Iron Chefs in the past says that it avoided disaster by the skin of it's teeth.
Who should you be listening to?

I should be listening to the first-time attendees for this event, since it was, in fact, the first time at AX, and they will come back next year. However, now that we have time, we can listen to other, more experienced people for suggestions. Is that a problem, or would you prefer to dwell on the past and continue to rant about this year?

It's great to hear that people who have no idea what this event consists of had a great time. And I'm far from ranting. I'm actually quite calm. If you don't like my opinion, don't listen to it. I'll talk to the people who won't just sit there and say they're "open to suggestions" but those who want to put valid ideas and aspects of what make an Iron Chef excellent into effect.

Once again...
I'm not ranting. You wouldn't like to see me rant