More Lupin AMVs!!

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Pinkjacketaddict
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More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Pinkjacketaddict » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:51 am

Huh, I guess I'll just announce the new ones I've made from now on. ^^

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=169346



All about Fujiko. Many love her, and more hate her. But few people are in the middle about her, and neither is she. Whatever Fujiko does, it's to the extreme. Here she speaks in her own defense.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=169408



This is the most incoherent AMV that I've made, since it has no plot and no single theme. No, forge that, it doesn't even have a theme. I think an alternate title could be, "The Death of Inspiration at Midnight", or something like that. On a positive note, I learned how fun setting the duration of clips to .1 second is. ^^
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Kionon
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Kionon » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:25 am

Please take this as intended, harsh but accurate, with the intent to make you a better editor, not just tear you down without building you back up. I'd like to see evidence of your improvement.

Fujiko is amazing concept with some of the worst execution I have seen uploaded to the Org outside of Naruto fight videos. I am not going to sugercoat this, because you had such an amazing, amazing concept. If it had been totally random, like your second video, I wouldn't have even bothered finishing it or replying. You know, if you have nothing nice to say, etc, etc. However, since the concept for Fujiko was a really, really good one and it was video I really would have liked to watch.... Because of that, I am going to tell you how disappointed I am.

First off, you should have stuck to Lupin movies with the same general anime style. Mixing movies from 20 years apart is not a good strategy. Second, PREPROCESSING. Please read this. The interlacing was atrocious, and the quality in general was painful. Third, your lip synch was usually decent, but try to have a more story-progressive order to your scenes. Totally random scenes dependent totally on lyrics are way too literal. She's having a conversation, of sorts, so every scene should look like it is natural progression from the last. You need flow that makes sense.

The other video isn't even worth mentioning.
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Pinkjacketaddict » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:04 pm

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=169442



Saiyuki opening---except with Lupin! It has all the things to make you cringe: interlaced video, footage from 19 Lupin series/specials/films etc. from 1969-2007. One cross-fade and cross zoom. I made it narrative-based from 0:45 onwards, action-oriented up until that point. I'm hoping that it's as campy and as fun as the Gensomaden Saiyuki opening.

Improvement? ^^ Hah! You're looking at the wrong place! XD I just happen to be a dyed-in-the-wool Lupin fan who makes AMVs for other Lupin fans, not for AMV-editors. The only techniques I'm slowly absorbing from AMV-editors are better timing and slower transitions, the former of which is the only technique old-school fans want from a Lupin AMV, anyways.
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Shinodude » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:14 pm

Pinkjacketaddict wrote: Improvement? ^^ Hah! You're looking at the wrong place! XD I just happen to be a dyed-in-the-wool Lupin fan who makes AMVs for other Lupin fans, not for AMV-editors

I'm a Lupin fan who happense to be an editor.

Other Lupin fans would approve of improving to make better Lupin videos they can enjoy more.

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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by dazza1008 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:10 pm

Hey dude - saw your vid, and yeah, I know what it's like to have it aimed at fans rather than "amv connoisseurs" ;) That's where I started, too - and my aim is still to make fun AMVs while gradually improving technically. :D No stress for me!
Pinkjacketaddict wrote:http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=169442



Saiyuki opening---except with Lupin! It has all the things to make you cringe: interlaced video, footage from 19 Lupin series/specials/films etc. from 1969-2007. One cross-fade and cross zoom. I made it narrative-based from 0:45 onwards, action-oriented up until that point. I'm hoping that it's as campy and as fun as the Gensomaden Saiyuki opening.

Improvement? ^^ Hah! You're looking at the wrong place! XD I just happen to be a dyed-in-the-wool Lupin fan who makes AMVs for other Lupin fans, not for AMV-editors. The only techniques I'm slowly absorbing from AMV-editors are better timing and slower transitions, the former of which is the only technique old-school fans want from a Lupin AMV, anyways.

Kionon's feedback might not have been given in a palatable way, but he did put his time and effort into giving details for improvement. And detailed feedback doesn't always occur around here - some editors would prefer his response to nothing, or one-sentence responses. Plus he did have some praise for your vid - maybe you're missing that. Also, it is an opinion, not God's word. (must wait for Godix for that) There are a lot of ways of thinking about AMVs here - all you can get is people's opinions, no matter whether they're said in an 'absolute truth' way.


And you're announcing your AMV in the a-m-v.org forums - I believe it's correct to assume that anyone who does so has an interest in improving their editing technique, by default.


IMO we need more detailed feedback responses like what Kionon did here, since that's where the real learning occurs (detailed feedback), and I thought it was unnecessary for you to throw it back in his face like that. (although I think I can understand your reaction, since I... needed to adjust to this place when I came here, big time :mrgreen: Eventually I got used to it and it didn't bother me.)

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Kionon
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Kionon » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:37 am

And I'm one of the nice ones. I wouldn't have commented it all, but for the concept. Clearly there is talent present.
Improvement? ^^ Hah! You're looking at the wrong place! XD I just happen to be a dyed-in-the-wool Lupin fan who makes AMVs for other Lupin fans, not for AMV-editors. The only techniques I'm slowly absorbing from AMV-editors are better timing and slower transitions, the former of which is the only technique old-school fans want from a Lupin AMV, anyways.
That's the wrong attitude. I make Utena videos primarily for myself, not even other Utena fans, knowing full well no one will watch them, but that doesn't mean I want them to look like total crap just because if my fellow editors won't like my Utena vids, I won't care. I happen to care about making the best video I can. Why? Because at the end of the day, the opinion that matters is mine, and if I don't think I did as well as I could have, then I am not happy.

Oh, and I am one of the major proponents of old-school style. There is a difference between old school style and sloppy editing.
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Pinkjacketaddict » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:48 am

IMO we need more detailed feedback responses like what Kionon did here, since that's where the real learning occurs (detailed feedback), and I thought it was unnecessary for you to throw it back in his face like that. (although I think I can understand your reaction, since I... needed to adjust to this place when I came here, big time Eventually I got used to it and it didn't bother me.)
I guess it's good that you've adjusted, then. Yes, it's a detailed response, but that doesn't mean that it's constructive in the least. Someone can write an entire book in order to attack someone else's book, resulting in over 900 pages worth of criticism. However, if it misses the point entirely, or if the advice goes over the other person's head, then it wasn't constructive. It's not about volume.

I don't think that I was being clear: there are AMV-editors who are Lupin fans, Lupin fans who are AMV-editors, and Lupin fans. I belong to the latter category. I'm also speaking for the majority of non-editing Lupin fans: Lupin fans don't care if the footage doesn't match, if the inter-lacing is terrible, or even if video was recorded scene-by-scene with a camera. Neither do I.
That's the wrong attitude. I make Utena videos primarily for myself, not even other Utena fans, knowing full well no one will watch them, but that doesn't mean I want them to look like total crap just because if my fellow editors won't like my Utena vids, I won't care. I happen to care about making the best video I can. Why? Because at the end of the day, the opinion that matters is mine, and if I don't think I did as well as I could have, then I am not happy.
Concerning the near-universal gripe about inter-lacing, I attempted to de-interlace the PAL footage, and it ruined the quality. You can't even see the picture. It's technology with which I'm unable to work, so I leave it the way it is.

The definition of "total crap" is rather broad to editors. It also differs for each editor. Some like transitions, and others hate them. Some will watch a video and think that it's bad, and others will watch the same video and think that it's good. Frankly,I liked the result of my video: if you didn't, then you didn't. But it seems that the brunt of your complaint was the mixing of styles, which isn't going to change.
Oh, and I am one of the major proponents of old-school style. There is a difference between old school style and sloppy editing.
The core of the AMV-viewing Lupin fanbase wants the beats to match the music. Everything else is bells and whistles. As I make my videos, I only want to improve synching beats to music. If there's lyrics, I match to them. That's why I chose the song, so as to reflect the lyrics. You're looking for a story-progressive order that's not lyric-dependent? Make your own Fujiko AMV. I'd like to watch it and not rip it apart. You may be a Fujiko fan, but clearly you're an editor first and a fan second. I can't believe that you watched the Gurren Lagann-themed one after you were repulsed by the Fujiko one. Do me a favor and stop watching my AMVs, because you're wasting your time.
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Otohiko » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:35 am

Ok, chill out first of all. I think Kionon qualified his feedback at the beginning and your claims that it was anything but constructive are pretty absurd. You're shirking your own technical incompetence by going on the attack - why? He's only trying to be helpful and honest, if a bit harsh.

Secondly, you know what Lupin fans want? Really?
I think you're doing Lupin fans a real disservice here by painting them as incompetent people who can't tell good video quality and coherent editing. Those things aren't exactly something only AMV editors can see. Just like you don't need a film studies degree to tell good montage. It's not like Lupin fans, or I'm sure at least most of them, live in a Lupin-based vacuum. They don't have to be editors to see other sorts of videos. The only thing they have to be in order to tell you that you could do better is... not blind. Frankly, your claim to speak for Lupin fans in general is pretty offensive and paints them as - maybe nice - but blind and patently dumb. Is that really true?

Noone is asking you for excellence. These are very basic, simple technical things that can make your work much better without any massive effort and can make you a much better representative of your fanbase in video editing. We're talking at most a few hours of reading and figuring-out of simple software - hey, if you can figure out enough to edit, you can figure out enough to process, and there's lots of guides to help you.

In fact noone is asking anything. Except perhaps to be polite. It's your own choice if you want to be incompetent. However don't expect people not to call you on it, then hide behind "Lupin fans" and attack others when they offer honest comments. That's rude to more than one person. Please be polite and honest, and if you're unhappy with criticism, let people explain it to you and be helpful. I know for a fact that it's exactly what Kio is trying to be here.
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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by dazza1008 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:27 pm

Pinkjacketaddict wrote:I don't think that I was being clear: there are AMV-editors who are Lupin fans, Lupin fans who are AMV-editors, and Lupin fans. I belong to the latter category. I'm also speaking for the majority of non-editing Lupin fans: Lupin fans don't care if the footage doesn't match, if the inter-lacing is terrible, or even if video was recorded scene-by-scene with a camera. Neither do I.
Well, like I said, it's normal for people to assume the person is interested in improving their editing techniques if they post here, because this is the a-m-v.org forums, made to discuss editing and isn't exclusive to Lupin fans. So, to prevent people from making long detailed responses about improvements, you should mention this fact in the original announcement post - that you don't want criticism of any kind.

I find that a bit hard to believe, though. I wonder if there is a way it could be said so you'd appreciate the advice. :| I didn't stop having fun when I learned to clean footage using AVIsynth (er, the making-AMVs part that came afterwards :P ). There's a link in my siggy to a good guide, if you're interested. While it may be technical, I could follow what it said because it was the steps were very clear.

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Re: More Lupin AMVs!!

Post by Vivaldi » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:00 pm

I think you guys are kinda missing the point. If he has neither the time nor inclination to delve into the technical side, and moreover is aware of this. Who are we to complain about it? Don't forget that (Despite what kio says) amvs are not srs business. If all he wants to do is throw some cool clips from his favorite show into WMM for the lulz, good for him. He obviously doesn't expect it to be treated as more than that. So there's no need to get worked up about it.

E.g. if a graphic designer walks past a man doodling on a piece of paper, he should not proceed to lecture the man on proper composition and proportion, because he honestly doesn't care that much.
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