The Ultimate Showdown of HagarenViper and TwilightChrono

[TwilightChrono]

Granted that the AR was wrong, but scenes used and AR being wrong shouldn't matter half of the time. Your basically saying that even if my video was edited perfectly, I would have still lost your vote because the damn AR was wrong? That's exactly what I've been talking about. The AR should have no bearing on a perfectly edited AMV (If there is such a thing)

And even still, your renig-ing on your very own advice that you gave me. I kept the movement going as best I could and slowly transitioned it so it would slow down with the pace of the music and lyrics itself. So, what scene from disc 13 would you have opted me to use? Cause I would love to hear it. In an IC, the object is to make due and do your best with what you have on hand. I did, but I lost your vote because of 1 stupid fucking scene choice and the AR? Also, I had cut the Song we were using to that exact part and we edited with the part of the song that I chose. Your saying, that I should have left all of that as black screen but kept the rest of the IC going? What's wrong with you? Is that something you would do?

Lemme summarize. I lost your vote because I followed the advice you gave me? Gotcha. I'll be sure to apply that knowledge when I feel like losing. Granted, you helped me a lot in the past, but come on. Your not making much sense.

And since when is there a exact editing formula to AMVing? Theres no such thing. Why should one person have to conform to a certain websites ideal way of editing? Where is originality in that. If that's how it is, then I could say all of you really don't know how to edit at all, cause you all edit the same way. Hard Cuts are fun you can do certain transitions with hardcuts that you can't do with masking or fading.

It's like saying:

"Alright, if you want this AMV to be awesome, edit like I do" NO!! I refuse.

[Vivaldi]

snip

Ah, I see you are in the vaunted 10%.

I'm not saying there's no actual rhyme or reason to motion design, just that the vast majority of editors on the org won't be educated in that. And when critiquing, will just be blindly searching for justifications of their overall impressions.

I personally don't have a formal education in the subject, but I've spent a great deal of time trying to compare and learn, globally, what makes the good videos good, and the bad videos bad. Trying to come up with postulates instead of approching each video with no frame of reference.

That said, I think the reason TCs final revenge video worked, and this one, is because it did make use of atmosphere in conjunction with the staccato editing he uses. It felt wrong and uneasy, but it achived the same purpose as desonece in music. It didn't always "feel" good, but it was unique, and built up tension for segments were he went into a more flowing style. take it too for and you'll end up with a travesty like the Twelve-tone technique, but go away from what's established to work a little bit, and you can come up with some very interesting stuff.

I think your correct in your critique of this vid, but I think the proper conclusion of this style would be a mix of scene flow and choice and staccato editing.

[TwilightChrono]

snip

Ah, I see you are in the vaunted 10%.

I'm not saying there's no actual rhyme or reason to motion design, just that the vast majority of editors on the org won't be educated in that. And when critiquing, will just be blindly searching for justifications of their overall impressions.

I personally don't have a formal education in the subject, but I've spent a great deal of time trying to compare and learn, globally, what makes the good videos good, and the bad videos bad. Trying to come up with postulates instead of approching each video with no frame of reference.

That said, I think the reason TCs final revenge video worked, and this one, is because it did make use of atmosphere in conjunction with the staccato editing he uses. It felt wrong and uneasy, but it achived the same purpose as desonece in music. It didn't always "feel" good, but it was unique, and built up tension for segments were he went into a more flowing style. take it too for and you'll end up with a travesty like the Twelve-tone technique, but go away from what's established to work a little bit, and you can come up with some very interesting stuff.

I think your correct in your critique of this vid, but I think the proper conclusion of this style would be a mix of scene flow and choice and staccato editing.

[LittleAtari]

Granted that the AR was wrong, but scenes used and AR being wrong shouldn't matter half of the time.

Scene choice always matter. It's what give an AMV a story and stops it from being random. If that's the case, then I am going to edit Just Loose it by Eminem to Shuffle! or Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien. Yes it does matter.

I would have still lost your vote because the damn AR was wrong? That's exactly what I've been talking about. The AR should have no bearing on a perfectly edited AMV (If there is such a thing)

AR is something so basic. All you need to do is LanczosResize(640,480) to correct it. It's something so easy to fix that there is no reason that it should be wrong. Why should the AR make a difference? Because people are used to seeing something a certain way. FMA is 50 episodes long, I got to see all the character for 50 episodes look one way. I watch an AMV with incorrect AR and it throws me off. I feel like I can't see things as easily. This applies to most people. In general, I hate it when I see AMV with incorrect AR because it isnt something hard to do right. I said this in my Advent Crisis thread to people who were going against people for hating the video because of crisscrossed characters, if something so simple can make someone enjoy your AMV more, then why not do it?

And even still, your renig-ing on your very own advice that you gave me. I kept the movement going as best I could and slowly transitioned it so it would slow down with the pace of the music and lyrics itself. So, what scene from disc 13 would you have opted me to use? Cause I would love to hear it. In an IC, the object is to make due and do your best with what you have on hand. I did, but I lost your vote because of 1 stupid fucking scene choice and the AR? Also, I had cut the Song we were using to that exact part and we edited with the part of the song that I chose. Your saying, that I should have left all of that as black screen but kept the rest of the IC going? What's wrong with you? Is that something you would do?

Usually in an IC, you can edit to watever part of a song you want for as long as you want. It's as simple as dont edit that part. Since you got to select and cut the song for both of you, you had the advantage to set it up the way you needed it, if you guys had to edit to the entire song.

Lemme summarize. I lost your vote because I followed the advice you gave me? Gotcha. I'll be sure to apply that knowledge when I feel like losing. Granted, you helped me a lot in the past, but come on. Your not making much sense.

I have every right to just yell at you here and call you every insult, but I wont. I'll leave you with the idea of it. Don't blame others or anything else for your loss or mistakes whether it is an AMV or a life situation. My advice to you was actually, just as I had told you, something SieraLorna said: Don't go from heavy paced action to something standing still. This is because you disrupt the flow. If you need to, find a way to transition properly. Like I said before, you edited perfectly. There was nothing wrong with the editing. So don't try to make it out that I'm contradiction myself or that you lost because of me.

And since when is there a exact editing formula to AMVing? Theres no such thing. Why should one person have to conform to a certain websites ideal way of editing? Where is originality in that. If that's how it is, then I could say all of you really don't know how to edit at all, cause you all edit the same way. Hard Cuts are fun you can do certain transitions with hardcuts that you can't do with masking or fading.

Like I said before, it's montage theory. It's taught in colleges and universities. It's practiced by professionals. It's not something that this site or it's members are making up.

It's like saying:

"Alright, if you want this AMV to be awesome, edit like I do" NO!! I refuse.

No offense to these editors or their videos, I think of them as better editors than me but I'm going to use them as an example:
I dont enjoy Narutomaniac's new video Yakitate. And I don't enjoy many of Nostromo's videos as much as most people do. They use a style that I'm not 100% found of, but I wouldn't consider their videos made wrong. Chiikaboom's Attack of the Otaku has a style that I would never edit to, but I enjoyed it.

That said, I think the reason TCs final revenge video worked, and this one, is because it did make use of atmosphere in conjunction with the staccato editing he uses. It felt wrong and uneasy, but it achived the same purpose as desonece in music. It didn't always "feel" good, but it was unique, and built up tension for segments were he went into a more flowing style. take it too for and you'll end up with a travesty like the Twelve-tone technique, but go away from what's established to work a little bit, and you can come up with some very interesting stuff.

I think your correct in your critique of this vid, but I think the proper conclusion of this style would be a mix of scene flow and choice and staccato editing.

Alright, I'm go to flat out say this, but the style of that video is not unique. You can find it in any developing AMV maker's video, you just watch too many good AMVs. If it doesnt "feel" good it's usually wrong. Very rarely is it a style thing. Unless you are someone that just cant appreciate other styles and fails to recognize other people's styles.

We're free to debate this, but you're not going to change my mind.

[TwilightChrono]

Haha, not trying to change your mind. Each of us has our own opinions and views. And by saying that we should each edit a certain way, really is losing our individuality.

A perfect example of hard-cuts, editing just like mine:

http://www.yt.com/watch?v=ZO_dfCfaG2U&feature=related (ya know the drill)

Is he/she still developing? Just wondering.

So, do you consider my video's made wrong? Each person has his/her own tastes. I don't think they are edited wrong. They came out just like I wanted them too.

Honestly, I could probably make a a bad-ass video like Skittles at any-given time that I want, because I believe that it's all a matter of how much effort and time you are willing to put into an AMV. So, if I sat down for like a year, and worked on one particular video, I can guaruntee that it would come out just as good, if not better than Skittles.

And really, all it comes down to is the amount of effort put into something.

Also, I didn't necessarily mean that just your advice in general made me lose. I could care less that I lost. I followed the advice you gave me, and used what scenes I could. According to you I edited perfectly. If I edited perfectly, then why didn't I receive your vote? You already stated this, and thus it leads me to believe that my editing was not perfect. Cause if it was, I would have at least got one vote. Right?

And as Vivaldi said, not everyone is going to be versed in this particular knowledge that you are talking about, and thus won't make sense to a lot of people. I refuse to conform to a set editing style, and wish to create my own. And if my sense of individuality and pride is what makes me not like-able here on the org or else-where, so be it. BUt I would like to try and create my own style.

Make my own style versus follow the current editing trend. Hmmm......I think I'll make my own style. The only reason I'm trying so hard in CascadaThon to conform to everyones expectations is because it's a group thing. But when it comes to people betaing my own personal videos and giving me advice, sure, I'll read it over and consider some of it, but if it is something that I feel is important to the AMV but the betaer thinks it would be better without, screw the betaer, I'm going to keep it in.

I refuse to conform to a certain way of editing, I prefer to edit to my own style. I could care less about popularity on the org. It's not important to me.

[godix]

Lesson of the day: Do not debate art theory with people who think Rich Little is an impressionist.

Second lesson of the day: Apparently effort can replace talent. Astounding how the Mona Lisa has been considered great art for centuries now, you'd think by now at least one person would have taken longer on a painting than da Vinci did.

[TwilightChrono]

Lesson of the day: Do not debate art theory with people who think Rich Little is an impressionist.

Second lesson of the day: Apparently effort can replace talent. Astounding how the Mona Lisa has been considered great art for centuries now, you'd think by now at least one person would have taken longer on a painting than da Vinci did.

It's true that talent comes into play at one point. But if you combine the talent you currently possess at that given time, with a greater amount of effort, then your bound to come out with something truly inspiring.

I bet I can work on something everyday for the next 6 months and come out with something truly awesome. And with the same style of editing I possess now.

Also, the Mona Lisa, took a great deal of Time, Effort and Talent. The same aspects of which I am talking about here. Although, I'm not an art enthusiast so take what I say at times with a grain of salt.

[Vivaldi]

That said, I think the reason TCs final revenge video worked, and this one, is because it did make use of atmosphere in conjunction with the staccato editing he uses. It felt wrong and uneasy, but it achived the same purpose as desonece in music. It didn't always "feel" good, but it was unique, and built up tension for segments were he went into a more flowing style. take it too for and you'll end up with a travesty like the Twelve-tone technique, but go away from what's established to work a little bit, and you can come up with some very interesting stuff.

I think your correct in your critique of this vid, but I think the proper conclusion of this style would be a mix of scene flow and choice and staccato editing.

Alright, I'm go to flat out say this, but the style of that video is not unique. You can find it in any developing AMV maker's video, you just watch too many good AMVs. If it doesnt "feel" good it's usually wrong. Very rarely is it a style thing. Unless you are someone that just cant appreciate other styles and fails to recognize other people's styles.

We're free to debate this, but you're not going to change my mind.

I think it's unique for such a relatively experienced editor to still use that style, and do so with more refinement than a usual newbie would. (I'm referring to memories of hate btw.) That said, I'm not saying he's the only one who does that style, or that his videos are flawless and should be void of criticizsim, just that I think it's wrong to tell him to use a more mellow style like Rider4Z, when he obviously tends towards fast paced editing. Even if it's not yet perfect.

So I guess to retcon myself, TC's vids probably could work within standard conventions, with more development. I just feel some people try to push him in the wrong direction entirely.

I guess that's really the only valid way I can put it, 'cause like you said. You shouldn't break the rules unless you know them, I admittedly don't.

A perfect example of hard-cuts, editing just like mine:

http://www.yt.com/watch?v=ZO_dfCfaG2U&feature=related (ya know the drill)

Is he/she still developing? Just wondering.

I think the reason that worked is because of the scene selection and song choice. (And really eclectic editing) The first of which admittedly one of the area's you could improve in.

Edit:

Second lesson of the day: Apparently effort can replace talent. Astounding how the Mona Lisa has been considered great art for centuries now, you'd think by now at least one person would have taken longer on a painting than da Vinci did.

The Mona Lisa sucks.

[TwilightChrono]

I think the reason that worked is because of the scene selection and song choice. (And really eclectic editing) The first of which admittedly one of the area's you could improve in.

I admit, there are a lot of areas that I could improve in. Scene selection is one of course and I guess pace or mood would be another. As stated so many other times. I'm not the best editor. Far from it. I'm probably one of the lowest editors on the food chain compared to everyone else here, but I work at what I do and I work hard.

I admit I can be hard-headed at times when it comes to editing, but you can blame that on my editor's pride. I love what I do. I even have a job editing. So, you can see why I get so uppity when certain things are said. And I apologize for that.

I am still currently working on my editing, and hope to improve more. I really like using hard-cuts and fast over-lay fades. I just think it's cool. I could improve on a bunch of stuff, and I will. It will take time.

I don't wish to make enemies out of this conversation so don't think I started this looking for a flame fight. I just felt that I needed to voice my opinion, no matter how ill received that it might be.

[LittleAtari]

I think it's unique for such a relatively experienced editor to still use that style, and do so with more refinement than a usual newbie would. (I'm referring to memories of hate btw.) That said, I'm not saying he's the only one who does that style, or that his videos are flawless and should be void of criticizsim, just that I think it's wrong to tell him to use a more mellow style like Rider4Z, when he obviously tends towards fast paced editing. Even if it's not yet perfect.

So I guess to retcon myself, TC's vids probably could work within standard conventions, with more development. I just feel some people try to push him in the wrong direction entirely.

I edited my first videos in 2002. I was not part of any online community and I barely even knew of the Org or other editors. Since then, I have created 10 full videos, 3 of which were released within a year from today. Something an experienced editor left for me in an Op on Cloud's Resolve was, "I can see you're a pretty good editor, which was why I gave this amv an op. It would be a shame for someone w/ your skills to go completely unnoticed. Keep doing what you do....Your editting skills will natrually improve even more than they have already over time."

The video is really rough, but I had the basics down in it, so he critiqued it well and left these encouraging notes. That was about 5 years after I had made my first AMV. Sure, I didnt edit for about 2 years in that time, but the point of this is to say that I could be considered 'skilled' by some and I have been praised by amazing editors, but I know that my editing needs a world of improvement. Despite having watched AMVs for so long and having knowledge of editing, I'm still looking for constructive criticism. Tear my video apart. Tell me what I'm doing wrong so that I can improve. If the day comes where I get no criticism on an AMV I make, I will stop editing because there's just no point after that. In a thread full of praise, look for the person who makes a negative comment and thank them for it.

Look at my old video descriptions, like in Naruto Kombat and Cloud's Resolve where I'm begging for opinions so that I can get better. The thing is, you need to be able to take criticism for your work in order to get better. It doesn't matter how long you've been editing or how many videos you have made. Narutomaniac has made less videos than me and has been editing for way less time than me, but he's a way better editor. What I would like to know is that why is it that every time TC has an IC, there is some epic discussion afterward as to why he lost? I would like to give TC the same encouragement that I was given, but those words made a big difference in my motivation and editing and I think if I were to say them to him, they would be wasted. TC, you're still a new editor, sit back a little and take things around you in for a bit.

Second lesson of the day: Apparently effort can replace talent. Astounding how the Mona Lisa has been considered great art for centuries now, you'd think by now at least one person would have taken longer on a painting than da Vinci did.

The Mona Lisa sucks.

That's like someone saying that any of the good classics sucked. Mona Lisa was special for reason. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it because of the little smirk she had? Because of the amount of time it takes to paint, people wouldnt smile or do anything that would be hard maintain for a long time. Wrong or right, it has a lot of cultural significance and that's why it's important.

Lesson of the day: Do not debate art theory with people who think Rich Little is an impressionist.

Second lesson of the day: Apparently effort can replace talent. Astounding how the Mona Lisa has been considered great art for centuries now, you'd think by now at least one person would have taken longer on a painting than da Vinci did.

With this, I leave this thread and wont post in it again regardless of what is said.