How to select clips?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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RottenJesus
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by RottenJesus » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:39 am

Kitsuner wrote:If you find out a clip you imagined doesn't actually exist, animate it yourself. :up:
Ok, with my background knowledge in AE and the sort of, that's not quite the option for me now ^^
Knowname wrote:bad is well you can't really clean this footage... unless your gonna clean the entire thing or do it post-editing.
Is that really so bad? Cleaning all of it is just a matter of time, and if you're not extremely near the deadline, it should work. (I remember doing this for my first vid, I used like 6 DVDs but I don't remember it taking too long).
On the other hand, is cleaning post-editing also a problem? You don't need the filtered HQ-files for editing, can do that later too.
downwithpants wrote: try to storyboard your amv first, even if you can't think of specific scenes from the anime during this process. then go through your source and try to see how you can make something fit.
That doesn't sound too bad. Even if it's a storyline from the anime, if it fits with my own story it should work. Normally I have the the starting and the ending point of the atmosphere/mood I want to create in that clip, so if the anime covers that it should be fine.

Overall, thanks a lot for the hints guys. I see that everyone uses a different method here and now I can try some different approaches.
And it's great to see that so many people still helping noobs, really gets my spirit up ^-^

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x_rex30
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by x_rex30 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:58 am

What I have done which works great is make fake avis to edit in Vegas with vfapi, then to find the scenes I want to edit with, I just scroll through the anime using Avsp. I'll put like 20 anime dvds on my computer, make the fake avi out of the vobs using scripts as well, then scroll through them in Avsp to find the scenes I want. I will find the exact frame through the program Avsp and then just type in that frame in Vegas. The reason I do it with avsp is because you can do custom speed when scrolling. Pressing down skips a second worth of frames and pressing page down skips a minute worth of frames. I can think of a scene I want and scroll through the anime's in no time. It's how I made my 'Reiterate to Irritate' video. The visual quality is great and I finished the video in an hour and it uses 15 different anime. It's because I was able to find the scenes really fast and then add them into the timeline. I'd show you the video if I could find a host. My server became unreliable so I have to get a new host.

Also make simple scripts that don't hinder performance in vegas. Always keep deinterlacing, frame rate/size changes alone alone because if you change it later, all the scenes will be moved around in your timeline. When you are done editing, you can just add scripts to clean up the footage, remake the fake avi with the same name and have it in the same folder, then all you have to do is re-open vegas and export. Very easy process if you want it to be. :wink:

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RottenJesus
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by RottenJesus » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:24 am

x_rex30 wrote: Also make simple scripts that don't hinder performance in vegas. Always keep deinterlacing, frame rate/size changes alone alone because if you change it later, all the scenes will be moved around in your timeline. When you are done editing, you can just add scripts to clean up the footage, remake the fake avi with the same name and have it in the same folder, then all you have to do is re-open vegas and export. Very easy process if you want it to be. :wink:
Believe it or not, I read the whole fakeAVIs thing in the guides and tried it out with a little project (which I didn't finish again -.-) and I found it to be really, should I say economic? You don't have the problem which files to input into Vegas to get a good workspeed and having limited hd-space at the same time. I will stick with that, but it didn't help me finishing the project the last time ^^
The avsp-thingy seems neat though, will try it out!

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Douggie
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Douggie » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:17 am

I was really inspired by Walter Murch's interview in the documentary The Cutting Edge - which I recommend you people to watch.

Image

You see that wall in the background? That wall is filled with shots of all the tapes he needs/has spot. The cool thing about that is that you can search through your footage really fast and, if it's timestamped, you can go to that footage real easy. Murch also annotates his shots I think. I t is much much faster than going through all the footage in your NLE even if you use markers for your footage and notes in that markers.

Ok, now I had the same idea of having this, but just with a bunch of thumbnails generated from your tapes - or anime in your case - instead of all printed out on the wall, so you can use Explorer or what ever thumbnail viewer to go through all the scenes really quickly. I talked about it with a friend of mine, Daniel, and he said that he could easily write a an AVS-script for that that creates JPEG-files every x seconds/frames/whatever and he did:

Daniel's post from the Animecon.nl forums - http://forum.animecon.nl/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2225:
On a slightly related note, Douggie and Rellik were discussing during dinner about how there aren't any good thumbnail generators. I promised to make one in AviSynth and here it is.

Code: Select all

function Thumbnails(clip c, string "dest", int "every", int "col", int "x", float "ar") {
    c
    dest  = default(dest,  "")
    every = default(every, Round(Sqrt(framecount)))
    col   = default(col,   Max(Round((Log(1.0 * framecount / every) + 1) * Sqrt(2)), 1))
    x     = default(x,     1280 / col - 1)
    ar    = default(ar,    1.0 * width / height)
    
    ConvertToRGB().Spline36Resize(x, Round(x / ar)).SelectEvery(every)
    ScriptClip("Subtitle(GetTime(current_frame / framerate), text_color=$ffffff, align=2)")
    StackFrames(AddBorders(1,1,0,0), BlankClip(), 0, col).AddBorders(0,0,1,1)
    ImageWriter(dest, type="png")
}

function StackFrames(clip c, clip thumbs, int i, int col) {
    StackFramesHorizontal(c, BlankClip(), i, col)
    i < c.framecount - col ? StackVertical(last, StackFrames(c, last, i + col, col)) : last
}

function StackFramesHorizontal(clip c, clip thumbs, int i, int col) {
    i < c.framecount  ? c.Trim(i, i > 0 ? i : -1)                  : BlankClip(c, 0)
    i % col > 0       ? StackHorizontal(thumbs, last)              : last
    i % col < col - 1 ? StackFramesHorizontal(c, last, i + 1, col) : last
}

function GetTime(float cur) {
    h  = String(Int(cur) / 3600)
    m  = String(Int(cur) / 60 % 60)
    s  = String(Int(cur) % 60)
    ms = String(Int(Frac(cur) * 1000))
    return h + ":" + (StrLen(m)  < 2 ? "0" : "") + m + ":" + (StrLen(s) < 2 ? "0" : "") + s
           \ + "." + (StrLen(ms) < 3 ? "0" : "") + (StrLen(ms) < 2 ? "0" : "") + ms
}
Quick usage guide: Save it as Thumbnails.avsi file in your AviSynth plugin auto-load directory. The arguments dest, evert, col, x, and ar represent, respectively: the destination path, how many frames should be skipped between two thumbnails, how many thumbnails should be displayed horizontally, what horizontal size one thumbnail should have, and the aspect ratio of your video. If an argument is not specified a reasonable default value will be used instead. For example, the following would be a valid way of using the script.

Code: Select all

AVISource("anamorphic_lossless_source.avi")
Thumbnails("C:\thumbnail", 240, ar=16/9.0)
This will create the file C:\thumbnail000000.png containing thumbnails that are 240 frames apart and have a forced 16/9 aspect ratio. Note that the process is not that fast, partially due to AviSynth being single-threaded and all. Processing a 24 minute long 1080p episode on default settings takes well over 2 minutes on my ridiculously awesome Core i7.

Sorry for wasting all this space here but who knows, it might even be useful to someone.
I never actually got it to work, because it seemed to crash my Premiere, but Rellik did seem to get it working. It might be because of different AviSynth versions (that's the most annoying thing about AVS) though.

So I hope this is helpful for you people who want to spot tapes/sources in a faster way. Of course, I do recommend actually seeing the source footage first, because stills cannot be a substitution for motion, but I think this system is a really good one to remind you of them and browse through them in a faster and more complete way than scrubbing through your video files.

In order to make it better, is there any plugin/code for AVS that can detect scene changes and can be combined in one way or another with the script? Because that would be awesome: no duplicates and no missing shots!

So anybody wants to improve the script with that? :D

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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Knowname » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:59 pm

RottenJesus wrote: is cleaning post-editing also a problem?
actually it's really logical. you have effects like crossfades and if your typical you have LOTS of them, these make it so one scene melds into another so say at some point you'll have 50% one scene 50% the other, well if you try to clean that it just knocks that ratio all to hell. It's as bad as color-banding for fades to black.

Only... I can't quite see it lol. BUT it's logical that you just don't clean edited footage. I think.
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by seasons » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:00 am

Knowname wrote:
seasons wrote:I'm just running through episodes one by one and making subclips out of anything that looks usable. This is a horribly inefficient and time-consuming method but when I have (what I think is) a good but uselessly incomplete draft of the video in my head, this is the only method I've used to help bring it into clearer focus prior to editing.

I rarely take advantage of the extra sequence feature in Premiere, I might try LittleAtari's method just to see what happens.
uh. why not just use the entire episode
Because I like to categorize my clips into different bins, based on reoccurring visual themes or characters. It helps me to find what I'm really looking for instead of just browsing through lengthy episodes looking for something that might work.

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Kitsuner
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Kitsuner » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:59 am

seasons wrote:
Knowname wrote:
seasons wrote:I'm just running through episodes one by one and making subclips out of anything that looks usable. This is a horribly inefficient and time-consuming method but when I have (what I think is) a good but uselessly incomplete draft of the video in my head, this is the only method I've used to help bring it into clearer focus prior to editing.

I rarely take advantage of the extra sequence feature in Premiere, I might try LittleAtari's method just to see what happens.
uh. why not just use the entire episode
Because I like to categorize my clips into different bins, based on reoccurring visual themes or characters. It helps me to find what I'm really looking for instead of just browsing through lengthy episodes looking for something that might work.
On the other hand, by going to what you know you want immediately, you might miss out on something you didn't realize would work even better.
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Knowname » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:24 pm

Kitsuner wrote:
seasons wrote:Because I like to categorize my clips into different bins, based on reoccurring visual themes or characters. It helps me to find what I'm really looking for instead of just browsing through lengthy episodes looking for something that might work.
On the other hand, by going to what you know you want immediately, you might miss out on something you didn't realize would work even better.
two thoughts that have crossed my mind numerous times. I typically think like Kitsuner and prefer to comb the entire episode though it IS really boring and takes a lot of time :x I guess you could go directly to the footage you want if you really know it that well, but what I do is separate all these into sequences. In one sequence I very quickly make a draft out of the scenes I like. but in another sequence I do the full combing through the episode thing. Both methods have positives!

When combing through you ofc might come acrossed something you don't expect. This happens to me even on footage I know really well! I hate to say but... lol

When using your own clips THIS is where the true creativity takes place! see, using the combing method all your really doing is piecing the amv together... there's no real creativity, no remixing, involved! Now this method forces you into a more 'now or never' mode.

Both methods are good I guess, but if you've got infinite time lol I'd do both :) utilizing bins or sequences in this way is key
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by seasons » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:14 pm

Kitsuner wrote:On the other hand, by going to what you know you want immediately, you might miss out on something you didn't realize would work even better.
Perhaps I phrased my post wrong. In this pre-editing stage, I rarely have my heart set on using very many specific clips in specific places. It's in going through the episodes and making the clips that I start find those scenes that I otherwise would have missed out on, and to build a kind of mental outline of where the video is going to go.

I'm not saying my approach is unique or anything, I'd be surprised if most people didn't do it somewhat like this.

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Re: How to select clips?

Post by seasons » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Knowname wrote:When using your own clips THIS is where the true creativity takes place! see, using the combing method all your really doing is piecing the amv together... there's no real creativity, no remixing, involved!
okay dude, you win.

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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Knowname » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:04 am

that was horribly phrased thanks for pointing that out o.0 but it's pretty obvious what I mean by remixing. I mean adding stuff like changing the color of the car your using or puting that littlscreen on the wall effect because the scene you wanted didn't have that effect you wanted. so you improvised. there's not a whole lot of improvisation in the other method. I guess you COULD improvise with the other method but that would seem like doing both to me o.0

I don't think anybody knows what I'm talking about except for me lol. *shrug* dude said I won *_*
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by JaddziaDax » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:38 pm

Make your entire video just improvising on the emotion of the song and clips...

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Re: How to select clips?

Post by Knowname » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:23 pm

I did that once and I thought it was pretty good... until I saw another one -|-
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Re: How to select clips?

Post by JaddziaDax » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:15 pm

I do that all the time...

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