On prescribing behavior

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:31 am

when people give me advice that contradicts what I feel my video should look like, I pretty much ignore them, or scream "I DON'T CARE" at them in my head (if I did it out loud my cat would look at me funneh.)

Though really getting a lot of different opinions that clash each other really kinda amuse me, cause it just goes to prove that there really is no "right way" to make an amv. There are things that you can do wrong to make a bad presentation but when it comes to editing people can pretty much do what they want.
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Also, (and this is just for me personally, because I know some people don't think this way) after I have finished an amv I really don't want to hear "what could have made it better", because I'm not going to go back and change it for you....

Now if you are that insistent on giving me your opinion on how to improve my work, come to me while I'm still in beta (or before I have finished it) and I'm willing to hear you out and make decisions on weather or not I agree with you.

Otherwise if you come to me after I have finished a video I'ma ignore you cause I've already considered this video done, and I'm not going to go back and re-make it just for a few people who got all preachy at me. It's a waste of my time especially when I'm already working on my next project.
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But at the same time, after I've finished a video I still don't mind hearing that someone didn't like it. They have the right to their opinions, and if they are going to nitpick at me then thats fine as well, they should just know I'ma ignore their nitpicking

because I'm not going to go back and change it, and more than likely I'm not going to use the same theme for my next vid so their nitpicking might not be helpful in any way.

Emong · Post by **Emong** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:56 am

I like opinions because the flaws people point out are what I should do better in my future videos. It's not like everything just applies for that one patricular video I've receiving ops for. Yeah, sure, I won't be doing the same video over and over again, but opinions help me improve my editing in general, not just for particular cases O.o What's the point of opinions if you can't handle flaws being pointed out?

As what comes to the original topic of this thread, sure it's often about personal preference but I think most of us can agree on the norms of what's good and what's bad editing. It's not like I'm saying videos have some objective value outside our subjective minds, but that's how we act like, as if they held such value. The possibility of that is another thing.. If it's all about personal opinions, then there are no good or bad videos, which is fine, but then there's absolutely no point in expressing your opinions about AMVs because your opinions have absolutely no value. Or in other words: when you leave me an op, I can as well say that you're lying

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:41 pm

Emong wrote:It's not like everything just applies for that one patricular video I've receiving ops for. Yeah, sure, I won't be doing the same video over and over again, but opinions help me improve my editing in general, not just for particular cases O.o What's the point of opinions if you can't handle flaws being pointed out?

i think its more that i get opinions that conflict with my opinions, therefore their opinions DO become invalid... In the end its my video and I have to make the decisions on how its going to look. If I let everyone else drive my video making, in the end I'll lose all fun from the hobby.

I also tend to get "useless" advice sometimes thats usually way too general like "tighten your sync" <- this means NOTHING to me. I get nothing from that kind of a statement, because the way I see it, I synced the video as I wanted it, so I don't know what there is to "tighten". (now if while I'm still working on it they point out specific times and places they thought should be timed differently I can easily take that into consideration - but the statement itself is useless to me as every video I make is going to be synced differently because its a different song)

Also, as I said nitpicking is welcome when I'm actually working on a video, because to me most of the random advice I receive IS specific to the video.. and can't necessarily be applied to any video I can and will make.

Or in other words: when you leave me an op, I can as well say that you're lying

that is a fair and valid statement and why I usually keep my "opinions" rather short and to the point: "it was good" "fangirl squee" or "it could have been better" "not bad, but still fun" or whatever... (at least on the forums/qcs and whatnot). That way they are not wasted. If someone wants me to elaborate then I will, but its only for those who actually want to hear it.

I also try to keep my opinions (as in the form on the site) to what I think the person would want to hear, or what they vocalize what they want to hear... if they ask for long drawn out crit then I will offer that, if they want just a general reaction then thats what I will try to give them... if they ask for neither then I'll give them a median. I also don't hand out many opinions to random people any more..

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:39 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Otohiko wrote:My thought for the day: if you have to think about AMVs, then at least think topologically, not typologically.
I agree some of the conversations are boring, repetitive, and filled with a fuck-ton of people that miss the god damned point entirely, but saying we shouldn't have discussions is tantamount to saying the forums (or at least the ones not specifically for technical questions) are unimportant and should just be deleted.

That's not what I said though!

What that pretentious little sentence meant is that I'd rather we try to get past the whole black-and-white and "X vs Y" thing. Which is where a lot of these discussions drift. I think that's kind of silly, that's all.

dj_ultima_the_great · Post by **dj_ultima_the_great** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:44 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:when people give me advice that contradicts what I feel my video should look like, I pretty much ignore them, or scream "I DON'T CARE" at them in my head (if I did it out loud my cat would look at me funneh.)

...

Also, (and this is just for me personally, because I know some people don't think this way) after I have finished an amv I really don't want to hear "what could have made it better", because I'm not going to go back and change it for you....

Sorry if this sounds disgruntled or sarcastic (I'm not angry; I'm really just curious), but why should anyone ever bother leaving you opinions again on the creative aspects of your videos? From what you've just said, anything stylistic that clashes with your original view gets ignored. If that's the case, then I'll never bother commenting on your videos again, because you're above me on a technical level (making my input useless) and you don't want creative advice after the fact.

No offense, but it's thinking like that that makes me so reluctant to give out opinions to people anymore. I hate wasting an hour of my time just to be ignored or contradicted on everything I say (in fact, there are two editors that I refuse to op anymore because they argued every single little thing I said in every op I ever gave them; it made my ops feel like completely useless wastes of time).

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:08 pm

The thing is with you, I know where you are coming from, I know who you are, and I wanna say that I have a fairly a good sense what some of your tastes are (though knowing me I could be way off)...

I have in some cases disagreed with your opinions on my work, but at the same time I don't feel the need to hunt you down and argue with you. That is pointless - and I know from several conversations with you, it's highly unwanted - but I don't feel the need to do that to anyone really, they are allowed to have their opinions, and I don't feel the need to fight people to change them.

Maybe "ignoring" isn't the correct word, perhaps "agreeing to disagree" is a better phrase? but it comes down to the same thing, the same feeling. The truth is I won't know if I disagree with it or not if I don't hear it. It's also interesting to hear different perspectives on editing even if I disagree with it. But in the end it's me who has to make the decisions on how I am going to edit something.
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For example: someone says that they didn't like "X" about my video. Okay so that was my favorite part about my video what am I going to do? be sad and hurt that the person didn't like "X"? or am I going to re-edit the whole thing just to please that one person? or am I going to suck it up and agree to disagree?

Then theres the matter of getting TONS of opinions (and not necessarily the form on this site, I just mean feedback and comments in general). Am I supposed to take EVERYONES comments and bend over backwards to please them all?

Plus theres is just no way you can please everyone, one person will say make more cuts, another will say make less cuts, then the next person will say the cuts are fine just add effects, and another will say don't add effects because they don't like effects... see what I'm getting at? I generally have to filter through all that and find the ones I agree with and the ones I don't agree with.

Also, I'm not saying that everyone has to love my videos, I'm just saying that I have the right to disagree with some people's opinions of my videos. And since they are my videos, then I get the ultimate decisions on them in the end.

AND in truth it isn't always "negative" feedback that bothers me. I get sick to death hearing how Pretty Sparkles is awesome (this happens usually on other sites), or Steryotypical Sailor Moon Video is the bestest video they have ever seen (it makes me wonder what kinds of videos they HAVE seen to make them think my old/crappy stuff is really good? I mean its not bad stuff but its really not that good either). I personally don't hate those videos, but I know that there are tons of far better videos (with the same concepts, and the same shows) out there... and I know that I've made much better videos since then.
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Also, it's different if I know the person, and I know who it is, and why they say the things they say. Understanding the source of the feedback tends to help a lot for me when it comes to weather or not I would "ignore" the advice.

I will still consume and attempt to understand with it even if I don't know them, but if I don't agree with it, does that mean I should still change the way I edit? or the choices I make while editing?
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I'm also saying that sort of nitpicky feedback is also much more welcomed BEFORE I decide to finalize a video, because I'm not going to go back and re-edit a video.

Its much more helpful to me while I'm working on a video rather than after its been finalized.

does that make sense?

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:32 pm

oh sorry to double post but to clarify the "I don't care" comment - thats usually how I get when I have heard the same nitpick over and over and over again... when people come "late on the scene" and rub my nose in it after the fact I've already had my nose rubbed in it.

Cause really, I don't care if Subrunker's video is better than mine. I respect him, and I agree that his video is outstanding, but mine is what it is and I'm not going to go and change it to challenge him in a 1985 duel.

I don't care if you think Something Fishy's song is "too long". I didn't want to cut more than I had because I LIKE THE SONG, and I want to TORTURE YOU! O:

/you just dont understand my artistic vision ;_;

lawl
(please note sarcastic bitterness in this post and don't take anything said here too seriously)

Koopiskeva · Post by **Koopiskeva** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:29 pm

I somewhat agree with Katie here, except I do like receiving opinions (even ones that tell me I should've done this and that, etc..) because I like knowing how people interpret my videos once they're done.

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:19 pm

d: i never said i didn't like getting feedback lawl.

I actually really liked that one op me rina and scob got that one time that read into every effect we made and saw things in the effects that we didn't think of... (symbolism and such)

It's nice to hear different people's perspective on it, but what I mostly like hearing is their emotional reaction on it even if it means that they don't like my video, or if they thought it was ugly.

downwithpants · Post by **downwithpants** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:46 pm

interesting.. though i thought the topic was gonna be on mental therapy.

another discussion on amvs as hobby vs amvs as entertainment and our roles as creators vs our roles as viewers.

roles as creators: some people make amvs for themselves, some people make amvs to entertain others, and some people incorporate both motivations.

roles as viewers: we all look at amvs with our own aesthetic standards. some feel it is beneficial to tell creators how the amvs stand up to their standards.

pretty much all creators are viewers, and look at amvs with their own standards. it is not uncommon for creators who make amvs only for themselves to voice their opinions on amvs based on their standards, whether it be an opinion on the main site, slamming youtube for its poor quality, or categorizing amvs into styles.

meanwhile, creators who make amvs to entertain will want to figure out what others enjoy.

result: we have people who want information on making more entertaining amvs, even more people with worthy input to offer, and forums to mediate communication between the two. hence these threads. on the other hand, it is problematic when the thread participants assume others need to adopt the suggestions brought forth in these threads. this is also a personal beef i have with abide-by-the-guide nazis.

conclusion: it is important for hobbyist creators to remember that there are entertainer-creators in the community, and vice versa.