Several Problems & Questions

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Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:21 am

Hey there! Yesterday I watched an AMV on YouTube. It was so amazing that I came to think about starting to produce my own AMVs. Cause I already owned Sony Vegas Pro 9.0, I started working on the idiot guide I found in this forums.

The first problem that occurs is, that I'm not able to see a video inside Vegas. I tried three different video formats. .avi, .mp4 and .mkv. (.mkv is the one I wanted to use most of the time, cause I own many anime episodes in this format). Well, I imported the .avi first. I could hear both the sound of my music and the sound of the video, but I could not see anything. So I thought it might be a codec problem. So I downloaded GSpot and this is what comes out:

AVI
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MP4
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MKV
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The .avi says codec installed, but why can't I see the video inside Vegas?
The other two results just confuse me.. I really need your help guys..

Maybe I should use another video editing software? Any recommendations?

BTW: I'm a German so excuse me for any language related mistakes, maybe I'm not that familiar with the English language. (:
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Kariudo » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:43 am

First, your English sounds pretty good to me.

The problem you're having isn't because of the container the eps are in (.avi, .mp4, .mkv...though I'm not sure if vegas 9.0 can import those last two). You're running into a problem with the codecs.

divx, xvid and x264 aren't meant for editing. I could go into detail if you'd like, but I'll just leave it at that for now. What you'll need to do is re-encode your videos using a lossless codec such as huffyuv, lagarith or UTVideo. Lossless = big files, so it's generally not recommended to re-encode entire episodes. Instead, most people here use virtualdub to select clips and only re-encode the small parts of each episode that you'll be using (more about that here)
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:05 pm

And that's the thing I read about the whole time I've been searching for a solution.

BTW: I recognized, that I can import Xvid encoded .avi files inside Vegas. The one I posted was encoded with Xvid 1.1.2 (that's the one which doesn't want to be imported properly; I tried again with another .avi (which seems to be encoded with Xvid, too) and it worked perfectly. (Well, when I split the episode in parts via pressing 'S' on my keyboard and drag them into another to create a transition effect and then try to preview it in the Vegas window, the video slows down drastically so I can't even see the effect. Is it due to my system which might be too bad or what's the problem there?!) I analyzed this file with GSpot by the way and what comes out is, that this one has been encoded with an older version of Xvid (1.0.2 if I remember correctly).. Should'nt software updates improve the functionality instead of disabling it?^^

To go back to the topic: I already installed AviSynth ,huffyuv and lagarith (yesterday) and created an AviSynth script (with the DDShow-thingi [I'm not quite sure how it's been called, sorry.] which aimed to my Digimon .mkv file with the additional parameter to convert it to RGB24. I used this script in VirtualDubMod and chose the lagarith codec as compression. After pressing F7 and starting the process I saw that it take more than an hour.. Then I canceled. :D Is there another way to use .mkv inside Vegas? Well I understand that you cut clips out of the episodes with VDM but my VDM seems to have problems dealing with .mkv cause it often crashed or I couldn't see the video or my PC slowed down that much that I had to kill the VDM process. Any ideas regarding that? Seems suspicious to me.

Damn I was looking forward to producing AMVs.. :D
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:14 pm

1) Don't use VDM, it's outdated, use VirtualDub instead. It doesn't work with mkv footage natively but everyone uses AviSynth these days for that anyway.

2) You don't encode whole episode, as Kariudo wrote, just parts of it you want to use - that takes shorter amount of time. Btw, one hour is quite fine for whole episode - I encoded 5 minute AMV for an hour and I bet there are ppl who encode longer.

3) The effects and fades generally take more of RAM, so either be prepared for a slowdown (RAM preview, Shift + B might help you) or purchase more RAM.

Hope I haven't forgotten anything :>
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:54 pm

1) Huh.. How can I work on .mkv using VD & AviSynth? I would need an explanation for that, if you don't mind. (:

2) Yep, I recognized that. The problem is, nearly all of the material I own is in .mkv, since my VDM crashes almost every time, I didn't know how to work on certain clips, you know? But you say everybody uses AS for that, so if you or someone else can explain this to me, I could do so, too. (:

3) Wargh! I have 1024MB RAM. Seems not to be enough, huh? ;D To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by RAM preview and pressing SHIFt+B, but I'll just try it tomorrow. (:


I hope you can continue helping me, I want to thank you in advance!
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Kariudo » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:39 pm

Yes, I know you may be able to import xvid files into Vegas but there is a very good reason why experienced editors will tell you not to use xvid files.

Xvid uses B-frames and P-frames in addition to I-frames.
I-frames (keyframes) contain all of the picture information.
B-frames and P-frames only contain part of the picture information.
P-frames look at the previous frame to get all the information, and B-frames can use the previous frame as well as the next frame. That means that they rely on I-frames to give you the entire picture.

Now if you cut your clips so that the first and last frames are I-frames you won't run into any problems. The thing is, it's practically impossible to tell if a frame is an I-frame just by looking at the video.

Eventually, you will make a cut that contains no I-frames...and that's when you start losing the work that you've done. Kevmaster can attest to this, and you can read the thread where everyone warned him about what was going to happen if you're still not convinced.

+ninja mod edit:
If you know how to import a file using DirectShowSource() (it sounds like you do) then it's pretty simple.
-Download ffmpegsource2 from here
-Unzip, and place the folder "doc" and FFMS2.avsi and ffms2.dll into C:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins
-create an avisynth script and use ffvideosource() where you would use directshowsource
-save as a .avs file and open in vdub

so instead of
Code: Select all
directshowsource("C:\documents and settings\someguy\desktop\animu.mkv")

you'd use
Code: Select all
ffvideosource("C:\documents and settings\someguy\desktop\animu.mkv")

the reason you want ffmpegsource2 is that it (should be) frame accurate, whereas directshowsource() isn't. Frame accuracy is kinda important when making clips in vdub.
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:33 pm

BleedingSt4r wrote:3) Wargh! I have 1024MB RAM. Seems not to be enough, huh? ;D To be honest, I have no idea what you mean by RAM preview and pressing SHIFt+B, but I'll just try it tomorrow. (:


I hope you can continue helping me, I want to thank you in advance!

If it helps you, I have 1024MB too :> Though I stay in SV8, since 9 is more demanding. RAM Preview = you select a part of your work in Vegas, press the shortcut, it saves that part in the RAM and it should play smoothly (until you start working on something else again).

And np! \o/
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby HalOfBorg » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:17 pm

You don't HAVE to have a lot of RAM for Sony Vegas, or even a fast PC - but it does help. I do a lot of my basic work on my netbook, 1Gig RAM.

I'm in the group who learned the hard way not to use xvid clips. If your just going to put clip 'A' in and render it, you might be OK. But any editing - render it lagarith or something first, then use that.
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:13 am

@Kariudo:
Ah I see.. Nah, sounds convincing. ;) (Good thing is, I understood what you explained to me though I'm not very familiar in video editing.. Everything I did before was creating slideshows with pictures I edited with Photoshop using the WMM for my girlfriend, or encoding videos in order to cut them in pieces using VDM and uploading it on YouTube.. :D)

If I create an AviSynth script which contains the ffmpegsource2() command, I'm able to import .mkv files to VirtualDub and edit it? In the AMVApp Guide should be a chapter where this is explained, shouldn't it?

So you say I could just use
Code: Select all
ffvideosource("C:\documents and settings\someguy\desktop\animu.mkv")
?
No capital letters? No additional parameters? (E.G. convert to RGB24?)

@Nya-chan Production:
:D Yea I feel way better now ;) With more demanding you mean it takes more ressources or its more complicated? Select a part..? How do I do that? Trying to mark a part of the video track makes the whole thing move.. But if it works, that would be a very great and useful feature.. Thanks to you ;)

@HalOfBorg:
Rendering lagarith would take too much time I think.. Can't I just import Xvid encoded files using the ffmpegsource2() to VD and then edit it?
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:41 am

Wohooo! I managed to do this! Haha thank you, I'm so happy now :D I managed to edit the .mkv using VD (which normally doesn't support .mkv; but as I read in the AviSynth guide within the AMVApp guide, AviSynth tricks VD. Very nice tool btw.) and encoded a small part I've selected with lagarith. It just took 2 minutes. (: Um one thing: Inside VD I can't hear the sound of the .mkv, neither I can In Vegas. Is that normal? (Nevermind: You don't use the original sound anyway do you?)

Thanks to you guys! I'll post here if I got more questions, is that okay to you?

BTW: How do I edit my post? oO Sorry for double posting I couldn't find an Edit-button..
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby HalOfBorg » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:37 pm

BleedingSt4r wrote:@HalOfBorg:
Rendering lagarith would take too much time I think.. Can't I just import Xvid encoded files using the ffmpegsource2() to VD and then edit it?


Sure, you CAN, but if your going to do more than put a clip in the timeline and render it, first render the clip you want lossless THEN add it to the timeline of your project. Much less problems.
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:07 pm

What I wanted to ask is the following:

I want to create an AviSynth script which contains the ffvideosource command which aims to my Xvid encoded file. Then I import the Xvid encoded file to VirtualDub using the just created AviSynth script. After that I select the part of the anime episode I want to add to Vegas. I encode the selected part with VirtualDub using the lagarith lossless codec and then import the just encoded clip (It's an .avi file now) to Vegas' timeline. There I start putting effects on it and blah blah. That will work, won't it?
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Kariudo » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:18 pm

yep, that'll work (unless something goes horribly wrong :uhoh: )
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby BleedingSt4r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:32 pm

Very nice.. (: Thanks to y'all for helping me out. I think I fell in love with you. :D
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Re: Several Problems & Questions

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:16 am

BleedingSt4r wrote:@Nya-chan Production:
:D Yea I feel way better now ;) With more demanding you mean it takes more ressources or its more complicated? Select a part..? How do I do that? Trying to mark a part of the video track makes the whole thing move.. But if it works, that would be a very great and useful feature...

More demanding as in taking more resources, yep.
Selecting a part can be done by clicking on any free place (doesn't even have to be in a timeline!) and moving the cursor to a side (or you can select a clip or an empty place by double-clicking it ;> )

BleedingSt4r wrote:Um one thing: Inside VD I can't hear the sound of the .mkv, neither I can In Vegas. Is that normal? (Nevermind: You don't use the original sound anyway do you?)


FFVideoSource processes only the video part - for getting audio out you would use FFAudioSource, in the same script (where you would have to remerge it) or in a different one - but as you said, we don't really use original audio (but in case you ever need it...)
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