Opinion site average

~Chrono~ · Post by **~Chrono~** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:51 am

Mhh... I was thinking that something is wrong with the opinion site average. Im not talking about the values but... I think that to enter that average you must have at least 3 or 4 opinions.
Why am i asking for this? Well, simple, there are guys that create fake accounts or ask friends to make an op on their video, and they remain with only 1 opinion but with very high rates.
With 3 or more opinions, this would create more points of view, but more importantly, not to take into account the fake ops.
Maybe the system is different... but that's what i was thinking. Its 4 am here and i happen to think of this... lol

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:30 am

So how would this fix anything if I were to leave n+1 "all 10's" opinions, where n is your threshold? To the contrary, such a system would worsen the damage done by malicious users.

badmartialarts · Post by **badmartialarts** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:03 am

Need more opinions, then all you need are more accounts...

Khanh Bui · Post by **Khanh Bui** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:15 pm

not to take into account the fake ops.

This is why I don't like exchanging opinions. Opinion givers tend to be nicer and more flatter because they're conscious of the fact that they need an opinion from the creator of the AMV they're opinioning. Many times I saw videos with >9 overall rating or a 3.7 star rating and i couldn't stand watching them for more than 45 secs. I don't mind people making bad AMVs, however they have to get bad ratings for those AMVs that are bad. Personally, I can't tell whether a video is good or bad anymore just by looking at the ratings.

So I'm suggesting that we do this:

1) Limit the # of videos a member can have...let's say less than 10. If you make more than 10 AMVs, you either need to get a life or your videos are probably not well made.

2) For every 10 videos that a member download, there is a randomly picked AMV (amongest the 10) that a member is REQUIRED to give an honest opinion

3) The requirement that an opinion be long and detailed and thorough is a BAD requirement and should be taken out. This requirement makes opinion giving a hassle when it should be pleasant. An opinion should be an honest feeling of the viewer about the videos, not an analysis of the video. Although of course an analysis is always better, it should not be a requirement.

I think that's all...
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... _id=238378

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:20 pm

Khanh Bui wrote: 1) Limit the # of videos a member can have...let's say less than 10. If you make more than 10 AMVs, you either need to get a life or your videos are probably not well made.

Ow.

2) For every 10 videos that a member download, there is a randomly picked AMV (amongest the 10) that a member is REQUIRED to give an honest opinion
OW!

3) The requirement that an opinion be long and detailed and thorough is a BAD requirement and should be taken out. This requirement makes opinion giving a hassle when it should be pleasant. An opinion should be an honest feeling of the viewer about the videos, not an analysis of the video. Although of course an analysis is always better, it should not be a requirement.

I think that's all...

OW!!!!

Not to sound mean or anything, but don't you think we're trying to encourage people to make and watch AMV's more, and only secondarily to op them?

What if I feel that nothing beyond a few short lines of response is required by the video? And isn't the fact that writing an opinion is entirely voluntary encouraging honesty, not the reverse?

...and I won't even talk about how wrong the first suggestion is.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:30 pm

Khanh Bui wrote:1) Limit the # of videos a member can have...let's say less than 10. If you make more than 10 AMVs, you either need to get a life or your videos are probably not well made.

Try telling that to AbsoluteDestiny, Kusoyaro, Doki Doki, Tom the Fish, Fluxmeister, Machine, MeriC, or countless others.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:43 pm

Khanh Bui wrote:So I'm suggesting that we do this:

1) Limit the # of videos a member can have...let's say less than 10. If you make more than 10 AMVs, you either need to get a life or your videos are probably not well made.

That would save a lot of bandwidth from those old-time creators who keep making great vids, and it would free up tons of space for cheap vids few people download (little bandwidth lost there).

But what does the number of vids have to do with giving or writing honest reviews?

I think I can safely say I have the most videos on this site, but I'm also the second most 'excessive reviewer' on this site (most opinions given, second to Shinji13). And I can safely say my reviews tend toward the useful side, when I get a few hours to write one. ;p

I see no correlation between the number of vids a person makes and the number of reviews that person writes (useful reviews). So far the person on this site with the most vids is the person with the second most reviews given. If there *is* a correlation, it's a positive one.

2) For every 10 videos that a member download, there is a randomly picked AMV (amongest the 10) that a member is REQUIRED to give an honest opinion

I like this idea, but who's to say they'll bother with an honest review? When we force them to put star ratings, they put a 3 just to get it done with. If you force reviews they'll put a "I like this, fun vid!" just to get it done with. We don't have a good track record with forced feedback.

3) The requirement that an opinion be long and detailed and thorough is a BAD requirement and should be taken out. This requirement makes opinion giving a hassle when it should be pleasant. An opinion should be an honest feeling of the viewer about the videos, not an analysis of the video. Although of course an analysis is always better, it should not be a requirement.

We don't have this requirement, and I'm glad we don't. A new creator can't be expected to notice every little thing, and most creators don't want to have the video picked apart (not the ones who've been around for a while). I like it the way it is - those who want to write detailed reviews can write them, and they tend to be appreciated more for putting in the effort (I love detailed ops, myself). And those who just want to let a creator know he liked or disliked the vid can say so (I like quick feedback, too). It's entirely up to the reviewer, and that's why it's voluntary. We're not in school, so there's no word limits on our 'essays'.

A review is a gift, don't look at its teeth and gripe about it.

Khanh Bui · Post by **Khanh Bui** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:12 pm

Not to sound mean or anything, but don't you think we're trying to encourage people to make and watch AMV's more, and only secondarily to op them?

Although it's true that we encourage members to "make an watch more AMVs", it's also true that we would like everyone to at least put some efforts into making their AMVs instead of combining random clips and music and call it done. I think not having a restriction on the total allowable # of AMVs is an invitation to "make crappy AMVs and upload it."

It does take a while to download an AMV. And...don't we all look at opinions and star ratings before downloading videos? And aren't opinions supposed to help us get better? If so, then I would assert that opinions are not "secondary".

We don't have this requirement, and I'm glad we don't.

Implicitly we do... or at least the "guide to giving opinions" implies it.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:38 pm

Khanh Bui wrote:I think not having a restriction on the total allowable # of AMVs is an invitation to "make crappy AMVs and upload it."

Agreed.

But you do know the purpose of this website, don't you? It's to list all amvs. Not just the best, or even just the good ones. All.

They should have a limit on the local host, but until they find a way to enforce the "no non-anime" rule, I'm not going to hold my breath. I can go through the "search by anime" and find a few hundred illicit videos uploaded on local. I think if they were worried about conserving space, they'd get rid of those videos.

So, yeah, if they run low on space they can delete the 'illicit vids', and then post a limit on 'real' amvs, and then go and get the 'bad amvs'. Right now I think they're doing okay on space, since none of the above is a priority.

It does take a while to download an AMV. And...don't we all look at opinions and star ratings before downloading videos?

Heh, actually I've never bothered to look at opinions or star ratings before getting a video. I look at the vid description to find out what it's about. Whether or not everyone and his brother liked it doesn't matter much to me. ^_^;

And aren't opinions supposed to help us get better? If so, then I would assert that opinions are not "secondary".

This I agree with. The reviews belong to the creator, they're for his benefit. That's why he gets to choose which reviews he makes public (if any). It's feedback, which includes praise, complaints, and - for those who want it - helpful tips.

If the sole purpose of reviews was to make the creator better, we'd have a select group of experts giving those reviews for some sort of payment (whether monetary or in services such as the right to gloat). We wouldn't allow newbies to write reviews since they're not qualified. We wouldn't force anyone to write reviews because we might accidentally make a 'bad' creator give 'bad' tips that will actually hurt the person he's trying to 'improve.'

We don't have this requirement, and I'm glad we don't.
Implicitly we do... or at least the "guide to giving opinions" implies it.

Yeah, I read that guide. And I've read the 'tips' on the opinion page. Did you notice some of those conflict with each other? That guide is one (or two, can't remember) person's opinon on how reviews should be written. It's not required reading, and few people follow it completely (if at all). No one is told to follow it. It's just a guide to be used if you choose to use it.

* * *

Just a note, your suggestions regarding the videos that should or should not be on this site really has nothing to do with this topic. This thread is about reviews and the total site average. You probably would have gotten better responses if you'd started a different thread for the "video limit per creator" and just put the review/opinion suggestions in this thread. ^.~

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:46 pm

I. No, I don't usually look at scores and opinions before D/Ling an AMV. A good announcement, description or recommendation will win me over far better.

Granted, I'm not a good representative of "we all", but you can't say that everyone does this.

II. The only thing in AMVing that is not secondary is the AMV. If the purpose of AMV's is something other then an anime video with music, I retire.

III. If there's a requirement to take unneccesarily long time to produce a "good" AMV, I retire.

Realize that everyone edits differently. I've seen many amazing AMV's made in a hellishly long time, and others made in a few hours' time.

And there are quite a few prolific editors that are both competent and produce a lot of videos. Kai Stromler and Arigatomyna would both exceed your proposed 'limit' nearly 10 times, and I'd be offended if number was the only thing that would make great editors like them stop or make new accounts.