A question of time
- Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
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A question of time
Yes, I have a general question about time and amvs. How long can a person make amvs before he or she can no longer say "I'm new so I haven't worked all the bugs out yet," or "I'm still practicing *this* aspect of editing," or "I'm not ready to graduate to a different editing program yet, I'm still trying to master what this one has," or "etc" ? Is there a time limit on that claim of, "I'm still new, cut me some slack?" Or is it until you make something others say is "officially good"?
Just a curious question spawned by boredom.
Just a curious question spawned by boredom.
- JCD
- Lord of the Dance
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 3:42 pm
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There is no time like that.
In my opinion it is a question of effort, no matter how much videos the creator has made. As hard as it sounds, if a scene or an effect could definately has a mistake (like premieres deinterlacing when speed is below 100) in the final version, the creator was just too lazy to figure out how to remove that. I've seen it some times that creators knew how to remove such things but just didn't do it because of their lazyness. The same goes with effects.
It isn't time until your work is good. There are awesome Beginner-AMVs out there like Angelic Gear Perfect and creators that create suck-ass-AMVs with their 20th one.
It isn't time, it's effort that you put in the video, no matter how many videos you have created or how long you are making AMVs.
In my opinion it is a question of effort, no matter how much videos the creator has made. As hard as it sounds, if a scene or an effect could definately has a mistake (like premieres deinterlacing when speed is below 100) in the final version, the creator was just too lazy to figure out how to remove that. I've seen it some times that creators knew how to remove such things but just didn't do it because of their lazyness. The same goes with effects.
It isn't time until your work is good. There are awesome Beginner-AMVs out there like Angelic Gear Perfect and creators that create suck-ass-AMVs with their 20th one.
It isn't time, it's effort that you put in the video, no matter how many videos you have created or how long you are making AMVs.
- Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
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I can see where errors like the one you mentioned (though I'm not familiar with Premier) would just be laziness once a creator knows how to take them out. But what about getting good at timing and synch and such things that are more a matter of practice and understanding how footage flows with music and varies according to beat? I know you can tell a person to cut a clip according to beats and such, but actually knowing when to do it, and doing it without ruining the story in a video are two different things. I supposed that was why there isn't a guide saying 'follow these steps for a perfect amv' - because a lot of it is working on intuition and knowing what will go with the mix of anime and music, and I don't think those are things the average creator is going to know as soon as they begin (there are those who start with awesome amvs, I've seen them, but most are going to have failed attempts before they catch the 'speed' of making a good amv). That's one of the reasons I didn't ask how many amvs you could make before you don't have excuses - because you can toss out a hundred amvs in under a month if you don't work at them, or you can do 7 a week and put a lot of effort into them (doing 10+ hour stretches) and still not have 'good' amvs because you haven't caught that 'speed' or the 'flow' or whatever it is that the great creators learn when they do what they do. I think some leniency should be allowed, but even if it shouldn't, beginners *are* given slack when it comes to amvs - I've seen it, experienced it, and know from reviews beginners recieve - claiming you're new grants you some leniency to learn the ropes and discover your nitch. That's where the question comes in. Is there a point where you can't say you're a beginner any more, and you have to admit you just aren't any good? Or is there a time frame? Or is it different for each...that's what I think you're saying. For some it's a matter of effort (already having learned how to get rid of basic mistakes - especially the obvious ones that just depend on not being lazy), for others it's a matter of practice. So, for those with whom it's a matter of practice, how much practice are they allowed to have before someone taps them on the shoulder and says 'just give up already?'
^_^ I'm not so much arguing as ranting, don't take offense or anything. This is the result of thinking too much and not having anything to focus on.
^_^ I'm not so much arguing as ranting, don't take offense or anything. This is the result of thinking too much and not having anything to focus on.
- Otohiko
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:32 pm
I think the only real reason to cut some slack for the beginners is that you don't want to discourage them and make them give up if their first video is not great.
Otherwise - I think it all solely depends on the creator. And sometimes, not knowing what you're doing leads to an ability to do what you don't know. Which means, as a beginner one often has an advantage of being able to try things a more experienced creator would not.
There are, of course, instances of bad first-time work. There are also many good ones, and I've seen some good first-time AMV's. Also, something that comes to mind immideately is FLCL - it's a true first work, with the chief director and writer, and all of the seiyuu, being in a professional context for the first time (and, IMHO, FLCL is a sheer minimalistic genius of an artwork).
Frankly, to me the first one is much easier... I mean, here I am having made one AMV - and now I'm struggling to even come up with an idea for a second. And I don't want any slack, by god. I think I'm up to the artistic responsibility...
Otherwise - I think it all solely depends on the creator. And sometimes, not knowing what you're doing leads to an ability to do what you don't know. Which means, as a beginner one often has an advantage of being able to try things a more experienced creator would not.
There are, of course, instances of bad first-time work. There are also many good ones, and I've seen some good first-time AMV's. Also, something that comes to mind immideately is FLCL - it's a true first work, with the chief director and writer, and all of the seiyuu, being in a professional context for the first time (and, IMHO, FLCL is a sheer minimalistic genius of an artwork).
Frankly, to me the first one is much easier... I mean, here I am having made one AMV - and now I'm struggling to even come up with an idea for a second. And I don't want any slack, by god. I think I'm up to the artistic responsibility...
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- JCD
- Lord of the Dance
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 3:42 pm
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umm... this made me think alot ^^Arigatomyna wrote:I can see where errors like the one you mentioned (though I'm not familiar with Premier) would just be laziness once a creator knows how to take them out. But what about getting good at timing and synch and such things that are more a matter of practice and understanding how footage flows with music and varies according to beat? I know you can tell a person to cut a clip according to beats and such, but actually knowing when to do it, and doing it without ruining the story in a video are two different things. I supposed that was why there isn't a guide saying 'follow these steps for a perfect amv' - because a lot of it is working on intuition and knowing what will go with the mix of anime and music, and I don't think those are things the average creator is going to know as soon as they begin (there are those who start with awesome amvs, I've seen them, but most are going to have failed attempts before they catch the 'speed' of making a good amv). That's one of the reasons I didn't ask how many amvs you could make before you don't have excuses - because you can toss out a hundred amvs in under a month if you don't work at them, or you can do 7 a week and put a lot of effort into them (doing 10+ hour stretches) and still not have 'good' amvs because you haven't caught that 'speed' or the 'flow' or whatever it is that the great creators learn when they do what they do. I think some leniency should be allowed, but even if it shouldn't, beginners *are* given slack when it comes to amvs - I've seen it, experienced it, and know from reviews beginners recieve - claiming you're new grants you some leniency to learn the ropes and discover your nitch. That's where the question comes in. Is there a point where you can't say you're a beginner any more, and you have to admit you just aren't any good? Or is there a time frame? Or is it different for each...that's what I think you're saying. For some it's a matter of effort (already having learned how to get rid of basic mistakes - especially the obvious ones that just depend on not being lazy), for others it's a matter of practice. So, for those with whom it's a matter of practice, how much practice are they allowed to have before someone taps them on the shoulder and says 'just give up already?'
in fact, you're right
my response above was more likely given to the time it takes you mentioned, cause this is up to the creator.
practice is one thing, but (made 16 amvs so far) I can say it's not practice, it's <u><b>expirience</b></u>. You get expirience from any kind of amv-ideas, from every other amv you watch and from the time you take to think over your editing (this would be the time you mentioned which is completely different from creator to creator). My first amvs were made when I had a slow internet connection, the best I've seen back then were some crappy dbz-videos. then with broadband I was able to see the top-rated amvs and I knew what it takes to make a good amv.
First amvs are pretty often given slacks. This is because the reviewer doesn't want to demotivate the creator and excepts him to have little expirience at all.
Overall, I never give up seeing finally some good videos from someone who's previous ones sucked. If they really want to create a good video, then they can do it. That's why we should ALWAYS help creators to improve

- VicBond007
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2001 3:00 pm
- Location: New Jersey
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There is no measure of time long enough to represent how long it will take before someone truely can say that. Just because you know what every tool does doesn't mean you're good. You can always improve, and thus nothing is going to ever be perfect.How long can a person make amvs before he or she can no longer say "I'm new so I haven't worked all the bugs out yet," or "I'm still practicing *this* aspect of editing," or "I'm not ready to graduate to a different editing program yet, I'm still trying to master what this one has," or "etc" ?
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- iserlohn
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 1:40 am
- Location: Wien, Österreich
To mis-quote Frederick the Great (it was him or Napoleon), "Professionals are easy, beginners are dangerous."
What does that mean? It means that people get into ruts, routines, and eventually become predictable. A beginner, on the other hand, does not feel bound by routine, and has less to un-learn that someone with experience. In terms of battles, this means that a newcomer (like Frederick) was able to pull off some maneuvers that looked incredibly stupid and dangerous to his opponents, but took them by surprise as a result. On the counterpoint, there have been new officers who knew just enough to get themselves annihilated.
In the context of AMVs, it means that a new creator has two avenues which they will likely follow. The first is the case of a general officer, who knows enough to scrape by and will, through experience improve. It may take a great deal of time, depending on how much they put into their projects in terms of both time and effort, but improvement will come. The other road is to be Frederick, and these are the people to watch. It's always neat to see a first time creator's video, just because they may have come up with a concept so out there that it blows you away.
Personally, I'm willing to let a lot slide technically - fuzzy footage, some slightly off cuts, overscan, etc. if a concept is solid, the video makes sense, and the problems aren't incredibly detracting. However, I don't care if you've memorized the Premiere, AE, and Combustion manuals and can render multi-layer composites in your sleep. If your idea sucks then nothing is forgiven.
This is probably a good time to mention the true lesson of experience: control. New creators tend not to have much, be it over their footage, technique, use of effects, whatever. After seeing a few hundred videos and making a handful of their own, though, new editors will get a better idea of what works, how much, and maybe even have an inkling of why. Again, it's all in how much you care.
What does that mean? It means that people get into ruts, routines, and eventually become predictable. A beginner, on the other hand, does not feel bound by routine, and has less to un-learn that someone with experience. In terms of battles, this means that a newcomer (like Frederick) was able to pull off some maneuvers that looked incredibly stupid and dangerous to his opponents, but took them by surprise as a result. On the counterpoint, there have been new officers who knew just enough to get themselves annihilated.
In the context of AMVs, it means that a new creator has two avenues which they will likely follow. The first is the case of a general officer, who knows enough to scrape by and will, through experience improve. It may take a great deal of time, depending on how much they put into their projects in terms of both time and effort, but improvement will come. The other road is to be Frederick, and these are the people to watch. It's always neat to see a first time creator's video, just because they may have come up with a concept so out there that it blows you away.
Personally, I'm willing to let a lot slide technically - fuzzy footage, some slightly off cuts, overscan, etc. if a concept is solid, the video makes sense, and the problems aren't incredibly detracting. However, I don't care if you've memorized the Premiere, AE, and Combustion manuals and can render multi-layer composites in your sleep. If your idea sucks then nothing is forgiven.
This is probably a good time to mention the true lesson of experience: control. New creators tend not to have much, be it over their footage, technique, use of effects, whatever. After seeing a few hundred videos and making a handful of their own, though, new editors will get a better idea of what works, how much, and maybe even have an inkling of why. Again, it's all in how much you care.
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- Jebadia
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:54 pm
- Location: Parkersburg, WV
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Otohiko wrote:and, IMHO, FLCL is a sheer minimalistic genius of an artwork
Hell.....yes.....
Anywho, whats great about new creaters is the fresh ideas that might come with them. Not to sound praising..but a good example would probably be Koop, if anyone would remember his Rei-Mix video, being only his 2nd video released was an amusing display of ideas and effort (and epilepsy) that came together in a good character profile video.
Veteran or just experienced creaters have been in the gig for long enough that they develope their own preticular editing style and stick with it. For some this works out fine, for others it could be a bad cruch and become redundant. Thus at times we try to find origional ways of compiling and presenting a video, and find new things (thus why people develope an obsession for origionality at times). For me this hobby is probably the funnest thing I do on a regular basis (other than drawing), and to keep it fun I try to think up something different to do each time (someday I'd like to self animate my own video...then die).
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- Mr Pilkington
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2002 4:10 pm
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Re: A question of time
Well a good editor will never say things like "that was just practice” or "I'm new so..." A good editor will work all of the possible kinks out and understand that improvement takes time. Those things are just excuses insecure people say to make other feel sorry for them. Sure not every video is perfect and as a rule later works tend to be better earlier. That's why god invented Remastering. No reasonable human-being expects your every work to me immaculate. When learning software it is good to make a video, but it will not be a short project. The key is not to give up until totally satiated. And don't begin new software with the highly expectant, 14 anime, multimonth project. Do something not meant for the outside world. A 1 and 1/2 or 2 minute video is all you need to learn, or master yourself a new High-res bumper. It’s all good.Arigatomyna wrote:Yes, I have a general question about time and amvs. How long can a person make amvs before he or she can no longer say "I'm new so I haven't worked all the bugs out yet," or "I'm still practicing *this* aspect of editing," or "I'm not ready to graduate to a different editing program yet, I'm still trying to master what this one has," or "etc" ? Is there a time limit on that claim of, "I'm still new, cut me some slack?" Or is it until you make something others say is "officially good"?
Just a curious question spawned by boredom.