Which would you rather opinionate: Good or Newbish?

[Arigatomina]

I guess that means I'd better appreciate ops that talk about the concept and flow and what I could have done to improve those, but I don't remember getting too many of those...

Same thing here. ^_^;

I stopped giving random reviews because I realized I didn't really want the 'time-frame' ops anymore. I wanted the ones that look at the big picture, especially from those who actually liked the 'idea' and might have opinions on how the idea could have been brought out better. If *I* got to that point, I knew others could feel the same. So I stick to reviewing only if someone asks me - and the person has to tell me what sort of review he wants. If he doesn't, I default to my 'bit of everything/nothing' reviews. I could write a book per vid if I tried to give everything an editor might possibly want from a review. I almost wish people would state in the vid description:

"If you review this, I'd really like to know how you saw the concept, the larger picture. Any picks at the little details, the cuts, tiny quality flaws, aren't really necessary. I probably already know they're there. ^.~"

I've seen people do the old "please review this!!!!" and at least two who actually said "don't bother to tell me what you think is wrong with it, I like it exactly the way it is." But very few make any comment on what type of review they'd like to get.

I think it's because reviews are still rare, and most people are happy to get one - no matter what it says (aside from flames, though there are some strange individuals who like getting those as well...)

[downwithpants]

Enough were good enough that I think next time I bother to change my sig I'll follow Scintilla's lead and start pimping other people in addition to myself.

All right! Trendage!

<_<

My ops. Hrm I dwell on how well on subjective topics (scene selection, capturing the mood, direction, flow, concept) more than technical details, mainly because I don't use Premiere, and if they want to improve technically, they can just read the guides. Music/video matching (in terms of mood and direction) isn't really detailed in the guide, well mainly because it can't be standardized for all videos, but rather can only be judged on a per-video basis. So, that's what I talk mostly about. That doesn't mean I don't care about technical details, I just don't spend more than a few sentences on it. So, even on very well done videos, I can find things I didn't like to talk about, even if I can't find technical flaws in them.

As for which videos I op, I op new videos with fewer ops more. I know there's the "heavily-oped editors still want opinions" argument, and occasionally I do op those videos, but some creators I think would benefit from my criticism more than others.

For receiving ops. I don't mind low scores or high scores. But I like personal details, like how the video made you feel, not just whether you liked it or not, but did it overwhelm you, did it bore you, did it make you laugh. Thats the most important aspect of making a video - communicating a feeling to the viewer not directly through words, but through psychological factors in the video. so, i want to know if i succeeded.
I like suggestions and tips too.

And no "perfect" review format exists as pen pen mentioned.

[madbunny]

Ok, in the interest of brevity (don't laugh dammit, this is still shorter then individual replies!) I'll lump the comments here and respond 'en masse.

Ones with substance. I don't care if the opinion is overall positive or negative, but tell me what was good or bad. My timing was off? My use of filters was good? TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME.

Agreed. for the tecnical details, does a timing break down work better, or does a few general comments referencing the areas in question do it?
Artistic merit then. (noted)

Other than that, technical stuff is good to nitpick errors, though I'm even more interested what they thought of certain things on the vid on artistic levels, etc
But then I also try not to op vids that are just too basic. It just feels like I might seem mean with my criticism, while the creator would simply learn through guides and practice anyway

I know what you mean, it seems heartless to go through a video with dozens upon dozens of errors and pick them out, on the other hand, *I would want to know*.
(nitpicks plus artistic merit (noted)

Both because if we don't opinionate on the wee ones...

For some reason this conjured a drill sergent giving an orientation to a bunch of Oompa Loompas.
"Now listen you wee men, you think I'm going slack on your because you are short, fat, purple and spent your lives as slaves in a chocolate factory you are SOO wrong" !!

I find the my ops are geared towards newbies or those that I can actually help in some way
Regardless of that I noticed that when I offered free ops most of the videos were good enough that I didn't regret offering free ops. Several were even suprisingly well done vids that I kept around and would not have seen otherwise. Enough were good enough that I think next time I bother to change my sig I'll follow Scintilla's lead and start pimping other people in addition to myself.
...I guess the person interested in improvement is more likely to respond.

Wholehearted agreement here. I was quite surprised by the variance in the quality of the videos submitted, I've only opped 72 as of this post but even on the ones that you expect to look like dirt there are gems.
I too will be doing the SIG thing now that you pointed it out, it's cool. I noticed Corran does the something similar.
Op the ones that can use it, low score and newbies for the most part them. (noted)

I find it's not so much the quality of the vid that effects me as the style. A straight action vid is much harder for me to op than a more artistic one. ...I try to give reviews that cover both specific things as well as larger issues.
In general though I try to always have a section explaining scores and a timing breakdown section.

I've started this too. At first I was worried that it might seem like I was trying to pad the word count of the video for a higher worthiness rating, then I decided that since I'm not, who should care? The other thing I started doing is a "first impression" part, where I just mention how the video worked or didn't work sans any technical details.
Artistic merit and 'style' (noted)

I guess that means I'd better appreciate ops that talk about the concept and flow and what I could have done to improve those, but I don't remember getting too many of those...

And I've found that, much of the time, I'll only bother to reply to opinions that actually have some substance to them. Do people really care that much about getting replies? I don't.

Hmm, I always like to check back and see what a person thought of my review. Specifically, sometimes there are mitigating circumstances, or details that I might have been unaware of. (the example that comes to to mind is one where I thought a person had put in fan art, but it was just actually a weird part of the actual series). I've noticed also that the more technical detail and thought that is put into a video review , the more likely a comprehensive response is.
which brings me to..

I stopped giving random reviews because I realized I didn't really want the 'time-frame' ops anymore. I wanted the ones that look at the big picture, especially from those who actually liked the 'idea' and might have opinions on how the idea could have been brought out better.
"If you review this, I'd really like to know how you saw the concept, the larger picture. Any picks at the little details, the cuts, tiny quality flaws, aren't really necessary. I probably already know they're there.
But very few make any comment on what type of review they'd like to get.

So, a basic: what I liked, didn't like and would change if I were magically you type review works best for you?
I agree on the part describing what type of OP a person would like to have. For me at least it lets me know if I'm going to put the video through the washer and find the dirt, or if I'm just going to watch it and make some general comments.
For someone with a pile of opinions, I usually figure that a couple of detailed reviews have already been left, so I keep it basic (usually). Given that you have a substantial number of videos, and almost all of them have a decent number of ops, would you tend to agree with that as a generalization?
And, also (noted) that you prefer the artistic merit review.

My ops. Hrm I dwell on how well on subjective topics (scene selection, capturing the mood, direction, flow, concept) more than technical details,
As for which videos I op, I op new videos with fewer ops more. I know there's the "heavily-oped editors still want opinions" argument, and occasionally I do op those videos, but some creators I think would benefit from my criticism more than others
For receiving ops. I don't mind low scores or high scores. But I like personal details, like how the video made you feel, not just whether you liked it or not, but did it overwhelm you, did it bore you, did it make you laugh. Thats the most important aspect of making a video - communicating a feeling to the viewer not directly through words, but through psychological factors in the video. so, i want to know if i succeeded.
I like suggestions and tips too.

Details on feelings, wins the day yet again (noted).
I agree on the whole concept of the video, IE: that it's supposed to be a synergistic combination of music and images that hopefully through the effort of the artist becomes greater than the sum of it's parts. (or is that a redundant statment?)


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General comments and observations:

I notice that on the whole, the people who responded here want opinions on a more artistic level than a technical level. In other words, did the video work for you or not, and what made it work? Then again, looking at the quality of people who responded that's not overly surprising. Ironically, this is a more difficult type of review for me to do. I mean, pointing out sequencing errors, and inconsistencies in color palette, or even trying to find the measure of progressive sequencial events is easier than that for me. Primarily this is because a) I have not a shred of artistic talent in my body. If I do something and it looks artistic, thats because I followed artistic rules (things like complementary colors and symetry), and also because b) did I mention the artistic thing?
I really like some of the ideas that were mentioned here, and I'll be implementing them myself.
One thing that I saw is that everybody wants to have the review be 'worth' something, no matter how good the video is. I try this myself. In fact, even on my highest scoring video (wasteland, if you want to know) I still made some observations that hopefully were of use.
Thank you all for your thoughtful and insightful responses. Hopefully, the next review that you get from me, will be one that you find useful, and informative.

[Arigatomina]

So, a basic: what I liked, didn't like and would change if I were magically you type review works best for you?

Pertaining to the 'goal' of the video, yes. I know people who would be quick to say they didn't like the pairing and if they were me, they'd change everything about the video. That's not the sort of review I'm interested in - I'll take them and nod, and then forget them. I think it's more in the lines of "did it work? if not, how could I have made it work?"

My 'favorite' vids are story-based, most romantic or dramatic. For those, the goal is to create a story, often centered on things that don't exist in the original anime. So knowing whether or not it was 'believable' is very useful in making future vids, or looking at my 'storytelling' style itself. Flashbacks, for instance, or building a 'background' for a non-existent pairing or storyline. Did it come through, or did it seem completely random? And if it were random, is it because you don't know the anime, or because the movement of the 'story' wasn't smooth enough? Would it be better if certain 'aspects' were shifted around in a more linear progression (intro, progression, the problem, facing the problem, rising climax, aftermath), or does it come off as more 'real' when the images and pieces are mixed the way people see their memories of things?

I don't think of my amvs as artistic because a lot of people seem to default to 'style' when they think of artistic - they think editing style, cuts, effect usage. When I think artistic, I think crafting a story, or making a painting that brings across a blatant theme all by itself - without any care for how the brushstrokes were applied or whether it's charcoal-based or edited in a computer paint program for perfection. So it's not 'artistic' reviews that I want so much as thematic reviews. It's like a book review - what do you think I was attempting to do, and in your opinion, did I accomplish what I set out to do? If not, how could I have done it better?

I agree on the part describing what type of OP a person would like to have. For me at least it lets me know if I'm going to put the video through the washer and find the dirt, or if I'm just going to watch it and make some general comments.

Heh, even with threads where I tell people to tell me what sort of review they want, I still get links - little more. So it's been a while since I varied my review layout. Some vids require more timeframes (the ones where they say "this is my first vid, any help is appreciated" in the vid descriptions), but unless they ask for an 'authorial intention' review, or a 'thematic review,' I don't do them.

For someone with a pile of opinions, I usually figure that a couple of detailed reviews have already been left, so I keep it basic (usually). Given that you have a substantial number of videos, and almost all of them have a decent number of ops, would you tend to agree with that as a generalization?

Timeframes I have for at least 4 of my vids - very detailed greatly useful reviews that point out all sorts of places where my editing (the cuts) need shifted or rearranged to match the beats better. Most of them are old, months back, though I've gotten two recently (one from Flint a month or two ago, and one from Fyrt). The others were gotten from op exchanges with people like Mexican Junior (very detailed), Omni, SSJVegita0609 - people I know give that sort of review. I sought them out because at the time I was trying to get a better sense of timing. But aside from the two recent reviews, very few do more than point out a few specific timeframes - cuts that stood out in the viewer's mind. I never got a single detailed review until after I'd reviewed 200 vids for free and started doing exchanges with the people I saw gave that sort of review (from looking at the vids I reviewed, I noted which people broke down those same vids in their own reviews and went after them when they finally did exchanges ^_^;; )

The detailed reviews I get now are from a select few who seem to like the way I edit - the rest are either 2 sentence flames, 1 sentence praise, or a few paragraphs of 'not what I thought it would be, but it's okay'. I like the way I edit, so I'm more interested in those middle paragraph reviewers - the ones who don't get caught up on the cuts (since I *know* I don't 'time' things the way we're 'supposed' to do it). I like the ones who look at the story vids for what they are - stories that either make sense and are enjoyed/hated, or attempts at stories that come off completely random and incomprehensible. I don't get many of those unless it's from those select few, mostly my friends. ^_^

And, also (noted) that you prefer the artistic merit review.

Story, or concept based reviews. ^.~ Thematic. Artistic is too hard to define.

[Bakadeshi [AuN Studios]]

So, when you are doing a review, would you rather do one on a technically excellent video that flows off the screen like a pure heavenly glow, or one with glaring technical and timing errors?

Honestly, I feel i am more helpful to the one with the glaring errors. If its a technical masterpeice its harder to review, because I have to go with a microscope on Extra nitpick level to review those ones, and sometimes still can't find anything technically wrong with it. Then again I also try to comment on Flow, Emotion, Story, and chosen scenery aswell. So even with these, i still have comments to say on these topics. I can say that its the videos inbetween that are the longest and hardest to write though. THe ones that are very good on their own, but still have alot of things i wouldve sugggested something diferent on. these can sometimes be over 3000 words for me, depending on how I feel the editor did. So it realy depends on the vid.

While the superior video is easier on the eyes, I always feel like I have to look for little nitpicky stuff, just to justify it as a review: (example)
1:27 "she winks" lyric - She didn't wink
quality: your black levels were at 92% of pure, meaning that the video could have had more contrast thus showing your color palatte better.

These kinda things probably depends on how much experience the editor has. I've gotten a few reviews like this from you, and they still help me because I am not that experienced yet, sometimes you still find things I don't know about. But a more experienced editor might already know about them and not care as much. I guess it depends on the person.
I still like to mention them in my reviews just in case.

Whereas with the lower quality ones you wonder if your feedback is going to waste: (another weak example)
1:30-2:00 - You used an entire uncut 30 seconds of the original anime here with no editing whatsoever
quality: All those lines at the edges of your characters are interlacing artifacts. (link to guide) There are many ways to clean it up. (link to interlacing information)

I feel the same way actualy... I wonder if they even care, or if they are just out to get free positive ops just to boost score. I make it known in my post that I am detailed in my ops, and so most of my ops do get good replies from people who apreciate them. There are a few though that don't, and makes me feel like it might be wasted. For this reason, I won't op a less than mediocre video at all unless it was asked of me either through PM or in my free op threads.

I don't know, it just feel weird offering technical opinions to people who are in some ways much better at editing than you. It's like telling an athlete how to improve his game from your couch.

I know the feeling ;p But the way I see it, its the same as critics reviewing a movie that just released. They are technically not directors, but they can comment on the directors choice of direction, and other various things about the movie, comparing it to other things they've seen, and often times come up with a descent review of the movie that gives us a good idea of how good it is or not. In this case though, we are doing it more to help the editor than the public, although it works both ways aswell.

Maybe it's just me. I know that some of the 'higher scoring' reviews that I've given recently have been technical masterpeices (Four of them tied at second with a score of 9.17) that I had to really look to find anything that looked remotely like it could have been improved. Some of my top ten have almost no effects in them, just a mastery of timing and metaphor.

On the flip side, none of the videos that got a score of less than 7.5 (many) have replies in the comments. I figured these would be the ones that could use the most in terms of improvement, and thus would be the most amenable to honest feedback instead of the usual "duuuuude awesome video" that they seem to crave.
Yet it seems to be just the reverse.

Its not just you, alot of this happens to me aswell. However, I get enough apreciation from people I review for that makes it worth it to continue. While not everyone bothers to reply to them, the few that do makes me happy that I was at least of some assistance to them.

As for a perfect format for me, I like to hear anything and everything a viewer things on my video. even if its a problem that I am aware off, I do like to know how easily detectable that problem was to the viewers. I like all kinds of opinions realy. But the best is the ones that covers all grounds, techincall, artistic, flow, direction, story, even music choice... everything. And I try to give reviews like this aswell.

[Bote]

I only op. the videos I like(therefore my high op. average ) and the ones that I do exchange with. Simple.

[inthesto]

So it's not 'artistic' reviews that I want so much as thematic reviews. It's like a book review - what do you think I was attempting to do, and in your opinion, did I accomplish what I set out to do? If not, how could I have done it better?

Strangely enough, this is how I've come to treat reviewing AMVs too. Thanks to my English teacher last year, after I watch each AMV for the first time I ask myself "What is the idea behind this AMV, and how did the editor try to convey it?" Like essays, every AMV has an idea, a concept, a...SOMETHING that it wants to get across, even if that something is as simply as mindless action.

This is most of the reason why I read the editor's note on the video after watching the video once or twice. If you can pick up the editor's idea behind the video without any help, especially without having seen the anime they used, that generally speaks well about the video.

Then, once you have an inkling about the concept behind the video, the rest of the opinion basically springs from there. Were the right scenes selected for the idea? And so on and so forth.

[Sephiroth]

I get warry about ops sometimes. I am a fairly frank person. Some people are only looking for praise. So 2 times ive had to deal with op revenge. Where somone give you a almost all 1s, just because you didn't like their video and gave it a average review.

With opinions, the question is what can i tell a person that would be useful. Almost all of the time it involves the negative so i generally go for opinion exchange, because then the person asked for my opinion.

[downwithpants]

So it's not 'artistic' reviews that I want so much as thematic reviews. It's like a book review - what do you think I was attempting to do, and in your opinion, did I accomplish what I set out to do? If not, how could I have done it better?

Strangely enough, this is how I've come to treat reviewing AMVs too. Thanks to my English teacher last year, after I watch each AMV for the first time I ask myself "What is the idea behind this AMV, and how did the editor try to convey it?" Like essays, every AMV has an idea, a concept, a...SOMETHING that it wants to get across, even if that something is as simply as mindless action.

This is most of the reason why I read the editor's note on the video after watching the video once or twice. If you can pick up the editor's idea behind the video without any help, especially without having seen the anime they used, that generally speaks well about the video.

Then, once you have an inkling about the concept behind the video, the rest of the opinion basically springs from there. Were the right scenes selected for the idea? And so on and so forth.

As for describing what the idea behind the video is, I feel it's a bit excessive, because basically the creator of the video already knows what the story is already, so what's the need to regurgitate it back? Of course, if you think your interpretation is different from the creator's, it's good to write that.

[inthesto]

As for describing what the idea behind the video is, I feel it's a bit excessive, because basically the creator of the video already knows what the story is already, so what's the need to regurgitate it back? Of course, if you think your interpretation is different from the creator's, it's good to write that.

Unless the creator specifically tells me what his/her concept behind the video was, then I really want to know if I interpreted the video the way it was *meant* to be interpreted. If I did, that speaks pretty well for the editor's skills, and I think the editor deserves to know that. If not, then I'm doing my best to let the editor know exactly what lead me into having a different interpretation of the video.

Or maybe I'm just analyzing these too in-depth.