Greedy People

[godix]

@Godix You'll see what's an improvement is in my next video. From crapy looking rm, non cool effects, mp3 used song to crystally clear DVD and OST ripped sources with both original effects and original idea. Definately gonna be VERY artistic approach.

Thank you, this is exactly why I do ops. You do have a point, the majority of your ops weren't useful if you were looking for ways to improve. It's probably inherent with DBZ fight videos I guess, by this point almost the only people who will download and op them are the ones who like DBZ fight videos. I'll warn you in advance, don't be suprised if you fall flat on your face the first time. Original effects and ideas take a lot of work and practice to get right. You do learn a lot by trying though, usually you learn exactly why your idea sucks so badly that no one else has used it, although maybe that's just me.

[Wonka]

Do you think the voices of 10, 20 or even 30 people accurately represent how the general public reacts and feels to a video? Not at all. People wanting more ops, even after 30, are just like the rest of us; curious as to the rest of the people's opinion of your video.
Its as if somebody asked you at a con what you thought of a video of theirs that played there. Then, they ask you what the crowd reaction was. Would you call him greedy, simply because he wants to know what more people thought of his AMV?

The more sets of eyes you have looking at a video, the more you learn about it. How it makes them think, feel etc. etc.. There is no limit to this, and people who want more ops than most people receive should not be thought any less of.

[dwchang]

Do you think the voices of 10, 20 or even 30 people accurately represent how the general public reacts and feels to a video? Not at all. People wanting more ops, even after 30, are just like the rest of us; curious as to the rest of the people's opinion of your video.
Its as if somebody asked you at a con what you thought of a video of theirs that played there. Then, they ask you what the crowd reaction was. Would you call him greedy, simply because he wants to know what more people thought of his AMV?

The more sets of eyes you have looking at a video, the more you learn about it. How it makes them think, feel etc. etc.. There is no limit to this, and people who want more ops than most people receive should not be thought any less of.

Wonka is 100% correct. The more data you sample, the more accurate your conclusion. This is sheer simple mathematics and statistics.

To be honest, I don't 100% trust the averages of a video unless it has a decent amount of opinions "backing it up."

At the same time, I do agree that it's unfortunate that some videos have 0 opinions while others hundreds, but 'dems the breaks. I wouldn't call those who want more constructive feedback greedy.

[TaranT]

...The more data you sample, the more accurate your conclusion. This is sheer simple mathematics and statistics....

1000 rotting apples is not enough to make a pie.

Or, GIGO is the bane of all statisticians.

...and recognition is necessary in order to compete in things like contests...

Actually, not true. Otherwise, former newbies like dW would not have won early awards in public exhibitions. Each year there are several wins - and even more entries - by people who either don't come here or who don't even know this site exists. Within constraints, the contests are open to anyone who makes the effort to enter.

I suspect most people would say the opposite, that competing in contests is the way to get recognized. But despite notable exceptions, even that is not true in general, you yourself being a prime counterexample.

[Castor Troy]

I just recently noticed something. I was a little bored, so i decided to give out ten free opinions, so i went into the op exchange board and posted it. It didn't take long for people to respond, which was what i hoped, but eight out of the twelve (yes, people exceeded my limit ) already had over ten opinions on their vid! One guy had over thrity! And i'm thinking to myself, why on earth do they need another opinion! I reviewed their vids anyway because they were first in line, but i think that's gettin' a little greedy. What do you guys think?

You agreed to a op exchange. If you agreed to give a penny to a millionaire, you're still locked in the agreement. Deal with it.

[trythil]

Do you think the voices of 10, 20 or even 30 people accurately represent how the general public reacts and feels to a video? Not at all. People wanting more ops, even after 30, are just like the rest of us; curious as to the rest of the people's opinion of your video.
Its as if somebody asked you at a con what you thought of a video of theirs that played there. Then, they ask you what the crowd reaction was. Would you call him greedy, simply because he wants to know what more people thought of his AMV?

The more sets of eyes you have looking at a video, the more you learn about it. How it makes them think, feel etc. etc.. There is no limit to this, and people who want more ops than most people receive should not be thought any less of.

Wonka is 100% correct. The more data you sample, the more accurate your conclusion. This is sheer simple mathematics and statistics.

No, that's a simple statistic fallacy. What happens if I sample all my data from one source? Say, for example, I get 30 opinions with all 10's...

[Scintilla]

...and recognition is necessary in order to compete in things like contests...

Actually, not true. Otherwise, former newbies like dW would not have won early awards in public exhibitions.

Personally, after I made my first [real] video and saw that it was still in time for the PortConMaine and Otakon 2003 deadlines (though it had missed a bunch of other big ones), I just figured, "Ooo, contests! Why the hell not, I have nothing to lose (except some money for postage)..." I knew I was a virtual unknown at that point, but I didn't care.

I suspect most people would say the opposite, that competing in contests is the way to get recognized.

Worked for me. I think.

And I'd say that becoming a forum regular probably helps somewhat as well.

[FallenPhoenix]

And I'd say that becoming a forum regular probably helps somewhat as well.

There's an idea I never thought of. I've been trying to sample more and more ways to try and get my name out and about, but this never came to me. Thank you, and don't mind if I steal the idea. 8)

[Arigatomina]

...and recognition is necessary in order to compete in things like contests...

Actually, not true. Otherwise, former newbies like dW would not have won early awards in public exhibitions. Each year there are several wins - and even more entries - by people who either don't come here or who don't even know this site exists. Within constraints, the contests are open to anyone who makes the effort to enter.

I meant on the site. ^.~ I was thinking of the VCA. Most of the videos that won were seen by hundreds (and many were reviewed by at least 50) before they were nominated. That's what I meant by recognition - you need people to watch the vid if you want people to nominate the vid. A con would be different since any video that passes screening gets viewed automatically by those attending.

I suspect most people would say the opposite, that competing in contests is the way to get recognized. But despite notable exceptions, even that is not true in general, you yourself being a prime counterexample.

I do think contests help you get 'public' recognition. After all, no one at a con knows those people like me who never go or submit to them. Forum presence only works for the forum if you don't add a public figure to go with it. ^_^;

[dwchang]

Actually, not true. Otherwise, former newbies like dW would not have won early awards in public exhibitions. Each year there are several wins - and even more entries - by people who either don't come here or who don't even know this site exists. Within constraints, the contests are open to anyone who makes the effort to enter.

I suspect most people would say the opposite, that competing in contests is the way to get recognized. But despite notable exceptions, even that is not true in general, you yourself being a prime counterexample.

Uhm...thanks I guess . I actually am pretty surprised when I look back on 2003 from being a relative n00b in January who didn't use AVISynth and then later winning some awards. It's nice and all, but a bit jarring when I bring it in perspective.

I do agree in that there are more and more entries by "unknown" people and I'd imagine that increases the chances of an "unknown dark horse" winning. In fact, one of my insecurities is this "unsaid expectation" that some people now have on "known" people. given, this is expected since they produce good work, but it's still interesting to look at.

I've discussed with a number of creators and wonder how much it may or may not influence our decisions and creativity. I mean perhaps we in turn would be less creative and just "go with what works" since we don't wanna upset anyone? I guess that's another discussion altogether and don't worry, I don't feel any enormous amount of pressure to please or anything. It's just a topic of interest.

Also as you stated, competing in contests generally holds with it...recognition. I think it's a true test of things since you don't have things like "Forum presence" or "reputation." The audience is, for the most part, casual fans and thus their reaction is generally unbaised (not always though).

At the same time, I'm not saying this is the *only* way to be "successful" or "recognized," but you bring up a good point. And to be honest, what's "successful" or "recognized" in such a niche hobby?

No, that's a simple statistic fallacy. What happens if I sample all my data from one source? Say, for example, I get 30 opinions with all 10's...

But how could one sample another set of data? We're in a community and thus by definition our data is already biased to a degree yes? It's not a fallacy that with more data points, your data becomes that much more "clean" and "accurate." I mean sure two points can form a line, but obviously if 9 points are all in conjunction with the slope, that means the line is that much more accurate (ugh I'm inadvertently talking about work here >_>)

And I'd say that becoming a forum regular probably helps somewhat as well.

I'd say forum presence only matters on this site's awards and I'd say that's not the entire picture either. People like Aluminumstudios, Kusoyaro and Fluxmeister don't post that often, yet make great videos that most people recognize.

Now cons are a different story, but we already beat that horse...multiple times .