HD AMVs

Locked
User avatar
DJ_Izumi
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
Location: Canada
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by DJ_Izumi » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:44 am

Uhh, the BD uses Java to code the disk and arrange it's menus and software and stuff. HD DVD uses what ever the hell this is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHD_Interactive_Format

But otherwise, video and audio content is pretty much the same, and video encoded for one could be ported to the other, you'd just need to reauthor the content since all the code to run the disk wouldn't work. They also use the same laser technology. So making players that support both is not technologically difficult. It's remarkably straight forward.

...Till you get into lisencing fees. :P
Image

User avatar
Willen
Now in Hi-Def!
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:50 am
Status: Melancholy
Location: SOS-Dan HQ
Org Profile

Post by Willen » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:49 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:They also use the same laser technology. So making players that support both is not technologically difficult. It's remarkably straight forward.
Not quite. There is the issue of the different lenses required to focus a blue laser to the BD layer and the HD-DVD layer. Not to mention focusing for DVD content and CD content. And the need for the additional support circuitry/chipsets (until a common BD/HD-DVD chipset becomes available). It is possible, but the costs are high enough right now.
DJ_Izumi wrote:...Till you get into lisencing fees. :P
And then there is that...

I've jumped in with both feet to the Blu-ray camp. I'm somewhat of an early adopter having bought a 2nd gen DVD player, 2nd gen MiniDisc recorder, 1st gen TiVo, launch-day PS1, launch-day PS2, launch-day PSP, and now a launch-day PS3 (Blu-ray). I also own a LaserDisc player, a VideoHi8 deck, and a stand-alone VideoCD/CD audio recorder.

Having HD-DVD competing with Blu-ray is bad for the next-gen format(s) since it causes consumer confusion and makes people delay their purchases. And I personally think that the transition to High Definition broadcasting would be helped by a HD optical disc format to drive demand. The only good things about having HD-DVD is that Toshiba is artificially driving prices down on hardware by subsidizing their player and it is forcing the Blu-ray camp to improve their hardware and software to compete. It also helped drive acceptance of the VC1 codec by the movie studios in their releases due to the capacity limits of HD-DVD which nearly requires advanced codec encoding to fit a movie and extras on the same disc.
Having trouble playing back videos? I recommend: Image

User avatar
DJ_Izumi
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
Location: Canada
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by DJ_Izumi » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:39 pm

I dumped 60 seconds of the 5cm HD trailer to Lagarith in YV12 colorspace... 400mb.

*twitches* I think I'm going to need to figure out a bait and switch tactic if I ever do an HD AMV. Not to mention the the fact that Premiere won't be able to read that kind of file in real time so even previewing the timeline would be crazy hard
Image

User avatar
Willen
Now in Hi-Def!
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:50 am
Status: Melancholy
Location: SOS-Dan HQ
Org Profile

Post by Willen » Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:35 am

DJ_Izumi wrote:I dumped 60 seconds of the 5cm HD trailer to Lagarith in YV12 colorspace... 400mb.

*twitches* I think I'm going to need to figure out a bait and switch tactic if I ever do an HD AMV. Not to mention the the fact that Premiere won't be able to read that kind of file in real time so even previewing the timeline would be crazy hard
Oh, yeah. Full uncompressed/lossless HD editing (especially 1080p) is HARD on your machine. You need TONS of hard drive space, preferably on a high speed RAID-0 array (15,000 rpm drives are really nice for this). Lots of RAM is always welcome, like 2GB or more if you can afford it. And the latest, fastest processor helps out quite a bit, especially a dual- or quad-core CPU.

This is why Proxy Editing (essentially bait-and-switch) is becoming more widespread. Edit with a low(er) res copy (usually generated by the program), but when the program exports, you get the full quality HD footage from the original source plus whatever edits and effects you added.
Having trouble playing back videos? I recommend: Image

User avatar
DJ_Izumi
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
Location: Canada
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by DJ_Izumi » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:23 am

My problem is, my editing tactic for years has been to take my source into VirtualDubMod then export out 1-20 second long clips in Lagarith (Used to be HuffYUV) and bring those clips into Premiere. I've done this for a few years. 1) Very disk space efficent. 2) I find seeking threw entire episodes easier in Vdub than in Premiere 3) I find shorter clips easier in Premere when I can just dump my clip in and quickly trim it.

This process I don't think can adapt to bait and switch. :/ Unless there's some neat way to make VirtualDubMod generate an AVISynth script at the same time, so when I make whatever.avi in Lagarith ar 640x360, it make whatever.avs which has the exact same in and out points but doesn't resize down from 1280x720... O.o

I think I might have to relearn to edit...
Image

User avatar
usa mimi productions
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:49 am
Status: a random yuurei
Org Profile

Post by usa mimi productions » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:44 pm

i don't see why people couldnt do hd amvs, the only problem is playback for most of them. i have no problem playing back 1080p on this machine but it still peaks at 62% cpu usage on a dual core 2ghz g5. if anything 780p coudl be nice to see but most anime lacks the detail that 780p could display.

as for computers with hd-dvd abilities, supposedly the dvd-rw in my g5 has hd-dvd playback. i lack the hd-dvd to test it with i cannot say it does for sure.

i think computer users need to seriously upgrade their hardware if they wanted to see alot more of the hd amvs. it would be nice to see decent hd amvs but am torn on if it is really needed.

User avatar
Knowname
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:49 pm
Status: Indubitably
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Org Profile

Post by Knowname » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:50 pm

x_rex30 wrote:I highly disagree. That is like arguing DVD vs VHS. There is a lot of noticeable killed detail in a lot of anime, and that's a fact. When DVD first came out people would say there isn't much of a difference between VHS and DVD. But you mainly heard that when it first came out. Just wait till some good releases come out, that would shut people up. And I don't see a reason why they can't make it easy to edit with. The files are not as huge as uncompressed files, and those files work perfectly for editing with. And since hd is suppose to be progressive(I think) you wont have to put deinterlacing scripts that slow down video playback. I can see it working out someway. I'm addicted to hd especially with my gears of war on my hdtv. We need more damnit! And I must say hddvd and blue ray really sucked at marketing it. There is a clear victory for hd dvd. There is a lot that could be done to increase sales, like more software, hacks etc for hd dvd. Everyone nowadays seem to have 720p or higher hdtvs so I'm sure people are looking for a better movie experience. I think that qualifies as them being ready.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/opticalhdba ... dwins/4211
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/playstation ... luray/4206
I don't know, I just followed Willen's links and d/led a Tenatious D 1080p trailor. I still can't tell the dif on my 19"lcd. I also have a prestine quality pannasonic HDTV (26lx600 not 1080p though) and switch back and forth between Direct TV and OTA HD (Over the Air) as well. Still not a whole lot of difference.

It may be like DVD where you won't notice the real difference until your so used to it already. And, yes, I can really tell the difference say in a credit role (I actually LOVE to watch NASCAR races in HD -_-)... but who really cares that much about a credit role (or NASCAR)?? Anyway it may be better than DVD, but I don't really care. Only time I DO notice ANY diference is when you can COMPAIR two LIKE images such as switching back and forth from HD to DirectTV (480i), then I care. But that's more of a 'look what I can do?' penis measurement comp. thing.

Like Otohiko, I don't think the world is 'READY' yet. And I don't mean ready as in why he (and I share his 'hatred' for x.264) hates x.264, where most can't play it. Most MAY NOT be able to play it. But except in the odd occasion, such as NASCAR races, they don't CARE either.

I don't see HD takeing over for a few years at least.

User avatar
Knowname
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:49 pm
Status: Indubitably
Location: Sanity, USA (on the edge... very edge)
Org Profile

Post by Knowname » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:54 pm

oh, I also LOVE to watch amvs in 1080i (INTERLACED) as it simulates the 1080 experience without the degragation of upsizeing to 1080 lines or whatever. You all should try it -_-

User avatar
Qyot27
Surreptitious fluffy bunny
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:08 pm
Status: Creepin' between the bullfrogs
Location: St. Pete, FL
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by Qyot27 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:36 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:My problem is, my editing tactic for years has been to take my source into VirtualDubMod then export out 1-20 second long clips in Lagarith (Used to be HuffYUV) and bring those clips into Premiere. I've done this for a few years. 1) Very disk space efficent. 2) I find seeking threw entire episodes easier in Vdub than in Premiere 3) I find shorter clips easier in Premere when I can just dump my clip in and quickly trim it.

This process I don't think can adapt to bait and switch. :/ Unless there's some neat way to make VirtualDubMod generate an AVISynth script at the same time, so when I make whatever.avi in Lagarith ar 640x360, it make whatever.avs which has the exact same in and out points but doesn't resize down from 1280x720... O.o

I think I might have to relearn to edit...
Just make a script that trims a certain section out of the episode (it helps if the episode was dumped to a low-quality MJPEG file, tracked through and the frame numbers noted to use as reference for the VOB - of course if the computer is powerful enough that's kind of unnecessary and the frames can be noted from the VOB scripts), and also contains the resizing command. Export that to a folder labelled SD or whatever, comment out - or entirely delete - the resize command, and re-export the clip to a folder labelled HD or whatever, but remember to give it the exact same filename as the SD copy. After all that's done, just take the SD copies and put them in the main folder, edit with them, and so on.

When it comes time for the final export, close Premiere, put the SD copies back into their right folder, grab the HD ones and put them in the main folder, and open Premiere back up. It should be fine - it worked well enough when I was trying to edit at 320x240 with script-served MJPEGs and switch them out for the full quality/res script-served VOBs at the end (although Premiere choked with having to deal with 70-some AviSynth scripts, so it didn't quite work that well - using plain old AVIs shouldn't have such problems though).

User avatar
Willen
Now in Hi-Def!
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:50 am
Status: Melancholy
Location: SOS-Dan HQ
Org Profile

Post by Willen » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:06 am

Knowname wrote:I don't know, I just followed Willen's links and d/led a Tenatious D 1080p trailor. I still can't tell the dif on my 19"lcd. I also have a prestine quality pannasonic HDTV (26lx600 not 1080p though) and switch back and forth between Direct TV and OTA HD (Over the Air) as well. Still not a whole lot of difference.

It may be like DVD where you won't notice the real difference until your so used to it already. And, yes, I can really tell the difference say in a credit role (I actually LOVE to watch NASCAR races in HD -_-)... but who really cares that much about a credit role (or NASCAR)?? Anyway it may be better than DVD, but I don't really care. Only time I DO notice ANY diference is when you can COMPAIR two LIKE images such as switching back and forth from HD to DirectTV (480i), then I care. But that's more of a 'look what I can do?' penis measurement comp. thing.

Like Otohiko, I don't think the world is 'READY' yet. And I don't mean ready as in why he (and I share his 'hatred' for x.264) hates x.264, where most can't play it. Most MAY NOT be able to play it. But except in the odd occasion, such as NASCAR races, they don't CARE either.

I don't see HD takeing over for a few years at least.
Here's the thing. And the industry doesn't say this, but HD is meant for video on big screen TVs/monitors. Sure, your 19" 1280 x 1024 LCD is fairly high-res that it makes text look crisp and shows great detail in photographic images, but at normal viewing distances and playing back moving pictures, it's not going to be noticeably better playing 720p HD content versus 480p SD content. What about 1080p? Remember that your screen will need to downscale the image to 720p to fit the screen.

Truthfully, at normal viewing distances, most people cannot tell the difference between 480p and 720p until you go over 26" (diag.) in size. As for 1080p vs. 720p, the break point is at about 50", give or take a few inches.

I own a 34" CRT HDTV that is capable of 1080i output. I compared the picture quality of the Blu-ray version of Superman Returns with the DVD version, both played back on my PS3. The BD video was output at 1080i, the DVD at 480p (the PS3 doesn't upscale DVDs). Superman Returns is a very clean looking movie in both formats. But the devil is in the details and that is the main difference between the 2 discs--there is more detail in the BD version. Kevin Spacey's (Lex Luthor) white jacket has a subtle texture that is smeared in the DVD, but is distinct on the BD. Kate Bosworth's (Lois Lane) face in the hospital scene has some compression artifacts and posterization on her face on the DVD, the BD is much better.

On Mission: Impossible 3 (M:i:III), in the scene where Laurence Fishburne is leaning over Tom Cruise in the interrogation room you can see a great more (almost too much) detail in their faces (especially L.F.'s). The DVD has good detail, but is noticeably softer. And in both movies, the credit scrolls are much sharper and more easily readable.

Here's the rub: some of the problems (posterization, macroblocking, etc.) can be solved by using higher bitrate encoding. But, seeing as how the DVD spec MPEG-2 has a functional cap on bitrates of 9.8Mbits/s (http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.4) it isn't always wise to go higher. While it is possible to encode a MPEG-2 stream at a higher bitrate and put it on a DVD, some standalone players may choke on the video. Blu-ray ups the maximum video bitrate to 40Mbit/s (http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_dvd_comparison) and HD-DVD offers up to a 28Mbits/s maximum video bitrate (http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_hddvd_comparison).

Now of course, most anime won't have this kind of detail to show, but the higher resolution should make lines smoother (this is dependent on whether the original source has this higher resolution). The higher bitrate will also reduce or eliminate color banding and posterization. And GC anime like Final Fantasy can take advantage of the full benefits.

But, since AMVs are (mostly) digitally distributed and bandwidth issues are a concern, there is a fine line of balancing quality, resolution, and filesize. One part of a solution, obviously, is switching to a more efficient codec like H.264 for encoding. We can also limit the resolution to 1280 x 720p (widescreen) since as mentioned before, most computer monitors will max out at that size and as I've stated above, you'll not see the higher 1920 x 1080p resolution on the relatively smaller computer monitors people will view them on. This still may not get under the 100MB limit for Local uploads for the typical length AMV, though.

If given the choice between HD (BD) or SD (DVD), I'd pick HD any day of the week. Once you've seen enough HD, it's hard to go back to SD. On-air and off.
Having trouble playing back videos? I recommend: Image

Locked

Return to “Video & Audio Help”