Popular (kare kano)

Uanime5 · Post by **Uanime5** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:51 am

My 25th AMV features the song 'Popular' from Wicked with the anime 'Kare Kano'. Maho has the role of the disliked Elphaba, while Yukino plays the more popular Galinda. I spent a lot of time trying to get the lip-sync right in this AMV.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=133722

Minion · Post by **Minion** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:53 am

whats with the org this week?
prod and atom use the same anime, now this?
meh. /gets

YouTube · Post by **Kionon** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:04 pm

What. Wait. Huh?

Willen · Post by **Willen** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:36 am

Minion wrote:whats with the org this week?
prod and atom use the same anime, now this?
meh. /gets

Coincidence?

Anyways, this video amused me greatly. Even coming right after Kionon's 'Popularity' was released. I guess this song was made for pairing up with shoujo anime. My only criticism of this video is that the lip masking could use a bit more tweaking, there are a couple of times where Miyazawa's mouth doesn't smoothly keep up with her (or the camera's) movement.

Uanime5 · Post by **Uanime5** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:47 am

Willen wrote:Anyways, this video amused me greatly. Even coming right after Kionon's 'Popularity' was released. I guess this song was made for pairing up with shoujo anime. My only criticism of this video is that the lip masking could use a bit more tweaking, there are a couple of times where Miyazawa's mouth doesn't smoothly keep up with her (or the camera's) movement.

I know its not perfect but I don't think I could get it any better than this (its not easy to put Miyazawa's mouth / face in exactly the right place when it changes every scene).

Willen · Post by **Willen** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:52 am

Uanime5 wrote:
Willen wrote:Anyways, this video amused me greatly. Even coming right after Kionon's 'Popularity' was released. I guess this song was made for pairing up with shoujo anime. My only criticism of this video is that the lip masking could use a bit more tweaking, there are a couple of times where Miyazawa's mouth doesn't smoothly keep up with her (or the camera's) movement.
I know its not perfect but I don't think I could get it any better than this (its not easy to put Miyazawa's mouth / face in exactly the right place when it changes every scene).

'Tis why I haven't even tried doing lip-sync on this level (yet). I applaud the effort.

YouTube · Post by **Kionon** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:21 am

Willen wrote:
Uanime5 wrote:
Willen wrote:Anyways, this video amused me greatly. Even coming right after Kionon's 'Popularity' was released. I guess this song was made for pairing up with shoujo anime. My only criticism of this video is that the lip masking could use a bit more tweaking, there are a couple of times where Miyazawa's mouth doesn't smoothly keep up with her (or the camera's) movement.
I know its not perfect but I don't think I could get it any better than this (its not easy to put Miyazawa's mouth / face in exactly the right place when it changes every scene).
'Tis why I haven't even tried doing lip-sync on this level (yet). I applaud the effort.

I didn't feel the song was built for a lip sync throughout. Unlike stage, where the actresses can demonstrate what they're singing about, the source material from an anime requires a switch off between "narration," which is lip synched, and "action," which is not. There simply isn't enough lyrical synch scenes with mouth movement to allow for a coherent lyrical synch when the entire video is lip synched.

Maybe this is arrogance, maybe it's just years of slow steady work (almost an entire year on Popularity alone), but I can definitely say this video would have been a lot better had followed the same formula that I did: mixing narration and action, instead of focusing on lip synch where it doesn't fit.

Uanime5 · Post by **Uanime5** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:24 am

Kionon wrote:I didn't feel the song was built for a lip sync throughout. Unlike stage, where the actresses can demonstrate what they're singing about, the source material from an anime requires a switch off between "narration," which is lip synched, and "action," which is not. There simply isn't enough lyrical synch scenes with mouth movement to allow for a coherent lyrical synch when the entire video is lip synched.

Maybe this is arrogance, maybe it's just years of slow steady work (almost an entire year on Popularity alone), but I can definitely say this video would have been a lot better had followed the same formula that I did: mixing narration and action, instead of focusing on lip synch where it doesn't fit.

I mainly used lip-sync because there was no action that I could use because the song was vague (I'm not a fan of montages or using effects) or because the characters were talking in the scene (if I have to replace the mouth movements why not just lip-sync it). Besides I like how it started with a conversation, switched mainly to action, and ended solo style.

YouTube · Post by **Kionon** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:59 am

Uanime5 wrote:I mainly used lip-sync because there was no action that I could use because the song was vague (I'm not a fan of montages or using effects) or because the characters were talking in the scene (if I have to replace the mouth movements why not just lip-sync it). Besides I like how it started with a conversation, switched mainly to action, and ended solo style.

How can you say the "song was vague"? It was pretty darn clear, and some of your editing choices did show you were aware of the specificity. The best example is when you used "you'll be good at sports." Much like myself, you chose a scene of "glenda/miyzawa" shooting hoops. This shows you had, at least at some point in the video, an idea that there were times at which lip synch was not appropriate.

KareKano is a 26 episode series. I find it hard to believe you could not find appropriate "action" scenes for times the song demanded such scenes. After all, I only have the first four disks of Revolutionary Girl Utena, and I barely used the last two at all. As for trying to lip synch simply because there is lip flap is the exact opposite of what you should have been doing. If that specific part of the song called for a demonstrative "action" scene, then just forcing lip synch onto lip flap instead because lip flap happens to be there is silly. That's when you get a different scene, one that is both demonstrative and one without lip flap!

I'm not sure that you can really decide the flow of the song, no matter how much you may wish it to have the three sections you "like." My opinion, and I hazard to say reality, is that the song has distinctive parts, but that the parts are returned to in a pattern. Your editing must also follow the aural as well as lyrical pattern, which does clearly designate what should and should not be lip synched, and vice versa, what should and should not be action synched.

I admit, I'm being awfully harsh on you in comparison to others, but that's because our general concepts were the same. No one else can be as hard on you as I can. I know exactly what it is like to listen to that song a million times trying to decide when and where those designations I mention take place. And when you realize it took nearly a year to complete my video, you have got to believe I spent an awful lot of time analyzing the ebb and flow of the aural and lyrical synchs in Popular. Not to mention hella time listening to it over and over and over and over at work.

You chose an appropriate series and did so because the characters are appropriate to a degree. But I really feel you failed to execute the concept adequately, and I feel no guilt telling you so, having executed the same concept. The fact is, you went against the flow of the song, and therefore you have action scenes that seem random, lip synch that seems entirely out of place, and sloppy editing, where you allow cuts to spill over the natural transition in either the instrumentation or the lyrics.

And blaming the song for your own editing choices, especially when I am here to rebutt you is... well.... really, really weak.

chosef · Post by **chosef** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:03 am