AMV Editing: A Postmodernist art movement?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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SSJVegita0609
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Post by SSJVegita0609 » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:59 pm

fanboy,

Don't worry about people giving you crap. It's inevitable on an internet forum. :wink:

That said, as an art student myself, I have to say that I hate the word postmodern. It's incredibly prententious (who the fuck is so modern they're BEYOND modern, anyways?). AMVs are a fun, arguably artistic hobby. My advice is to take them for exactly that, and not lose yourself in unnecessary analysis. Leave that to the Art History dept.
The best effects are the ones you don't notice.

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Kalium
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Post by Kalium » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:54 pm

SSJVegita0609 wrote:(who the fuck is so modern they're BEYOND modern, anyways?)
Considering that they took the ideas of the "modernist" movement and worked beyond them, the name "postmodernist" makes perfect sense. You have to consider context.

Anyway, as the local guy who likes to discuss AMVs as art and attendant theory, I will note that this is sensible as far as it goes.

However, you're missing that a lot of AMVs are essentially masturbatory. A great number of videos are made simple because the editor wanted to express something, and chose this particular form. A number of editors could care less what others think.

Are we avant-garde, per se? I haven't a clue. I do know that we are unique. We have a unique aesthetic, a unique community, and an increasingly common form. That's what matters.

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Post by godix » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:18 pm

iamfanboy wrote:Mmm, mostly I was trying to say is that AMVs are most definitely art by the strictest of definitions, and they could even be part of a specific art era, which makes AMV editors artists.
Ya think? Anything people do mainly because the results look/sounds good to someone (even if it's just themselves) is art. Picasso, AMVs, movies, TV, architecture beyond 'it's a large concrete box with a door', Kalium drawing on the wall with his own shit when he was 5 years old, whatever. It's all art. You can get a lot more pretentious than this definition, and many do, but I've never heard anything get more accurate. NOTE: I didn't say all this was GOOD art. That's an entirely different topic.
Is it just so obvious that it shouldn't be mentioned?
AMVs are a form of art? Who wouldn't that be obvious too? Other than overeducated art major twits who argue on if Picasso's blue period was an expression of his mood, an exploration in the depth and meaning of colors, or just that the local supply shop had a special on blue paint.
And yes, I do love the English language. It really is quite fun. If I come off as over-educated, well, it's because I am.
And if I come off as someone who finds your comments to be the drivel of someone who'd be so busy classifying a painting of a rainbow as modern realist art that they don't realize it looks pretty, well, it's because I am.
And thanks for the advertisement in your sig Godix, with a much-improved version of my video out there I need more exposure.
I gotta thank Pyle for my sig idea again. It consistantly provides me amusement.
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Post by SSJVegita0609 » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:32 pm

Kalium wrote:
SSJVegita0609 wrote:(who the fuck is so modern they're BEYOND modern, anyways?)
Considering that they took the ideas of the "modernist" movement and worked beyond them, the name "postmodernist" makes perfect sense. You have to consider context.
Meh, I call that innovation. Postmodern as its used today implies a sense of ego, a proclaimation that one is an embodiment of the future. Even art critics and enthusiasts use it to describe works that they personally find important, and therefore wish to inflate and impose upon others.

Though I don't get offended by the concept, I'm just tired of hearing it used in unappealing context (I deal with too many elitists, you might say).
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Re: AMV Editing: A Postmodernist art movement?

Post by downwithpants » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:05 am

iamfanboy wrote:We are a step ahead of the mainstream postmodern artists, because we're creating art for the sake of the art. We've avoided the masturbatory tendancies of postmodernism because we ARE creating for an audience, while avoiding the pitfalls of art-whoredom because there is no profit involved; we can walk the fine line between self-love and other-love that true art requires.
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Post by Otohiko » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:11 am

Someone finally said it.

AMVs are what people want them to be, and that goes both for the 'artist' and audience. And 99% of the time this has little to do with higher motivations as such.
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Post by Moonlight Soldier » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:29 am

Art depreciates in value when you start to categorize and label it. (I think.)

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Post by iamfanboy » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:59 am

Art is really simple: It's using symbols to communicate emotions or thoughts. Words are art (novels), motions are art (dancing, acting), and drawing is art.

Yep, that means that everyone, whether they mean to or no, creates art. What sets an artist apart is that they're consciously aware of it and have focused their inherent need to communicate into a specific area, like painting, acting, or yes, smearing crap all over the wall.

I'm not sure how it depreciates art to categorize it. I personally think that it's liberating; it lets you understand it, to step back and see it in a grander picture than your own eyes would allow.

What I think you mean is, "To put (X Artist) in the realm of (X style) and never look at him other than as (X style) is degrading and wrong; it locks your mind into a cage when looking at art when it should be free and open."


But it all does sound like a rather pretentious notion in one bite, no?

There's a good reason to follow this line of thought through, though.

Right now (in a historical sense) art is at a cusp. Things will be shifting radically in the next two or three decades in what we consider to be art and whom we consider to be artists, and it's something that people on this website should be aware of, because this website is a part of the paradigm shift. A small part, to be sure, but a part nonetheless, and whether your videos are appreciated in the future or outlawed will rest on how it all shakes out.

At no other time in human history has it been EVER been easier to access art, any kind of art. Five hundred years ago, an art student would have had to journey across Europe to be exposed to the masters. A hundred years ago, he would have had to go to the library - and then, his exposure would have been limited to only what was put into the books, at a time when Michaelangelo's David was censored in one out of every two books! Nowadays, this imaginary student could just type in a quick search and come up with hundreds or thousands of images...

The side effects of that, of course, is oversaturation of common images (that dumb kid with the lightsaber a couple of years back?), thievery for profit, and the backlash from the people who had it good under the previous system, like Metallica during the big mp3 flap, which is still going on.

As a side note, my best friend predicted what would happen the MOMENT that he first heard about the .mp3 format, in 1997, five years before it became national news and six (or seven?) years before Napster was closed down. That's why it's important to have a sense of how the now/i] will relate to the future, which is kinda what this thread is leading up to.

(I evolve my threads rather than saying everything at once, because it just takes too long to do it all at once, it looks boring, and it doesn't allow for the input of other people, which is NECESSARY for the development of good ideas.)

And there's nothing wrong with masturbatory art. Pollack is a good artist. Hard to understand, but good.

Doujinshi is (as an example) a masturbatory art form; it's created solely by the artist, to the artist's wishes, and while he brings enough to sell at conventions, he rarely makes a profit on it unless he's already famous or popular in some way. Ditto fanfiction; I don't think anyone writes a fanfiction (unless it's an Inuyasha fanfic ^_^) thinking, "This will make me POPULAR!"

And yet, a couple of the best stories that I've ever read have been fanfiction. I'm impatiently waiting for the Kimigabuchi circle to put out the next volume of their Evangelion doujinshi series, because it's how the story of Evangelion should have gone on. OMFG it is SO good, and the English translation is relatively decent, too.
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Post by iamfanboy » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:00 am

OK, no pun intended, I was NOT thinking of hentai doujinshi at all when I wrote that. Honestly... I wasn't! You've gotta believe me! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Post by trythil » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:00 am

I find it interesting that you're expounding these grand theories about how AMVs have this place in a great universe of postmodern "art", while one of the core tenets of postmodernism involves skepticism of grand theories and ideologies.

I'm not saying it's contradictory. Just interesting. (Another loaded word.)
iamfanboy wrote:We're avant-garde, folks. Ain't it creepy?
Not particularly. The adjective has been tossed around so much that it really doesn't seem to mean anything anymore.

Well, except when it comes to the financial world. It seems that, if you're in the right place at the right time, you can make an amazing amount of cash by labeling something as "avant-garde" and watching people flock to it. I think Bill Watterson was right on the money, no pun intended.
...Has this been talked about before on the forum? I couldn't find a searchy function, so I wasn't sure....
Yes, discussions about AMVs' place in the Big Ol' Grand Art World have taken place before. Consensus was usually reached pretty quickly, though I can't right now remember just what it all was. I'll have to dig those threads up.

Oh, and no discussion about postmodernism is complete without a reference to this. I've found it helps prevent the conversation from getting too far up its own ass.

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