Official "This part of the guide SUCKS!" thread, 2

[Zarxrax]

For example, I think there needs to be a basic page that lists the very basic steps one needs to take if they want to create a pre-recorded music video

Actually, there is a page that does just that: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... getb1.html
However, this page is probably a little difficult to find. In the new version of the guide I have made this page easier to see, and i have cleaned it up to make the process easier to follow. I think you made some good points though, so in addition, I think I will add a new page at the very top of the guide that is dedicated to showing people how to get started.

I totally agree that the guides can be rather overwhelming for people who are just getting started. I have been trying to make them a bit more straightforward, though the point of the guides is to teach people the how and whys, more importantly than just "follow these steps". This is because there often isn't just a single way to do something. You have to think and make decisions about things. This requires understanding what is going on, and this is why the guides try to fully explain most of the technical details.

For people who simply can't be bothered with all of that though, I have made some video tutorials (a seperate guide) which cut out all the technical crap, and just show a step by step guide of getting your source into your editing program. I'm hoping that this can help to show people the basics of what is going on, and then they can move on to the more complete guide.

One thing I'd like to see would be a quick-reference for all the AviSynth filters mentioned, as well as resources if you want to experiment with others. Right now the different filters are scattered over different parts of the guide, making it hard to catch what all of them do and what the settings are. Also, someone brought up recently that while dot crawl is mentioned in the guide, it doesn't say how to remove it.

I think I've pretty much got all of that covered for the new version of the guide, except the reference for all of the different filters. That would be an enormous undertaking, but I think you may be satisfied with the way things are now.

Once the new version of the guide is released, I will still be taking feedback on it, so I encourage you guys to let me know if you still have issues after you check it out. And with that said, I am now almost done with the new h.264 encoding section of the guide, which has been the most time consuming part so far, so I think I may now be able to have the guide released in the next month or so, if everything goes well.

[AnicentEditor]

One other thing... And this is more of a suggestion than a criticism...

Perhaps once the new guides are completely proofed and posted you might consider making a sub-section devoted to music video author's like myself who create videos using primarily live-action, 24 FPS progressive film footage instead of Anime?

I know the site is for Anime, but every single concept and technical aspect covered in the guides applies directly to live-action film footage except for maybe removing interlaced frames (which you do with DGIndex when you prepare your footage and "Force Film") and possibly some of the AviSynth filters as I feel you don't really need any of them for live-action footage because the clarity is better than Anime/Animated footage for obvious reasons.

The reason I suggest this is because there is a huge "sister" community of music video authors who use live-action footage (movies; TV Shows) and they also need a place to go for reference that addresses topics like where to start, but that also covers issues which are unique to 24 FPS progressive footage as well.

Just a suggestion...

[Zarxrax]

Perhaps once the new guides are completely proofed and posted you might consider making a sub-section devoted to music video author's like myself who create videos using primarily live-action, 24 FPS progressive film footage instead of Anime?
Just a suggestion...

Well, there really wouldn't be a whole lot of difference. The material in the guides regarding dgindex applies to live action just the same as to anime. The only difference I can think of would be the avisynth processing, where a lot of the filters used here aren't really applicable to live action, though I think someone doing live action can probably tell which ones wont be useful there.

So basically, I don't believe there are any major differences with editing live-action that would warrent any changes. Most of the stuff in there goes for any type of source.

[Scintilla]

One thing I'd like to see would be a quick-reference for all the AviSynth filters mentioned, as well as resources if you want to experiment with others. Right now the different filters are scattered over different parts of the guide, making it hard to catch what all of them do and what the settings are. Also, someone brought up recently that while dot crawl is mentioned in the guide, it doesn't say how to remove it.

Yeah, yeah, I'm working on it...

and by that I mean I haven't touched the damn thing since February, von Christ.

[Jayn_Newell]

Yeah, yeah, I'm working on it...

and by that I mean I haven't touched the damn thing since February, von Christ.

What would it take to bri...erm, I mean, prompt you to work on it some more?

I'm just happy to know it's being worked on. That's probably my biggest issue with the guide as it stands

[Gepetto]

Most of the stuff in there goes for any type of source.

I use the guides here for live-action. Just cut off the heavier filtering in AviSynth, the rest fits like a glove.

I have a very little suggestion for the guide: adding a little comparison between the most used audio compressors (mp3, aac and vorbis) since the differences aren't very noticeable.

[Sereenie]

I can see the point about the guide being overwhelming. On the other hand, it is *still* very easy to follow.

The first time I tried my hand at making anything using it, I too got pretty freaked out, but I just followed the instructions as I was reading and was able to make my first video with no problem whatsoever, even though I didn't understand most of the technical stuff. It's only AFTER that, when I re-read it, it all made sense. "Ohhhhh! That's what this was about!"

And I think that's the beauty of it: yes, it's shock-full of info, but it's also very user-friendly. Don't understand? Not a problem! Just follow along anyway, and everything will just turn out perfect. I think that some of those concepts are just easier to manage once you have actually seen for yourself what they are about.

That is why I think it covers all the bases beautifully: ultra-techy stuff to get you to know what you're doing, but combined to ultra-detailed and simple to follow instructions to simplu get you started.

And I agree with Gepetto: the guide as is works fine for live-action footage too. I've used it for that, and have recommended it to other people I know for that precise purpose. If I am not mistaken, even Vividcon recommended it. So that doesn't seem too much of a problem.

Just one question for me: do you have some sort of timeline for this update? A ballpark figure as to when we can expect it?

(What can I say? I've been excited about it for moths, now! Can't wait to see it!)

S.

[Sereenie]

(Gah!! Sorry for all the typoes! I keep forgetting we can't edit our posts here! )

[AnicentEditor]

And I think that's the beauty of it: yes, it's shock-full of info, but it's also very user-friendly.

I agree beginners have to start somewhere and have to "jump in" at some point obviously... But it ("Where do I start?") is still a fundamental question and is a broader question I believe needs to be more fully explained in the guides in my personal opinion. Zarxrax, also agrees as well.

Let me take you through a basic Beginner Scenario:

Most people who are enthusiastic about wanting to try making a music video, be it anime or live-action know only the very basics after doing some initial research (asking friends; visiting other sites like Myspace.com; etc.):

A) They know they want to make a video and probably have some kind of NLE. For a vast majority of PC users it is WMM2, and for Mac, iMovies.

B) They have some kind of source footage.

The majority of it will be downloaded movies/TV shows encoded with Divx or Xvid. This is because 95% of the videos on the net are made from this kind of footage (because WMM can use it better than a real NLE, so they consequently don't know they shouldn't be using it; Catch-22).

Now, let's say they make a few videos, but they know "something is off". Maybe it is those "horizontal stripes" (interlaced footage), or because things look "stretched" (aspec ratios off)...

Or, what happens a lot of times is they see a video made by someone using a real NLE and DVD source footage and ask, "Why does his/her video look so clean and clear? How can I do cool effects like that?"

So, they do more research and they come to a site like AMV, and after spending some time on the forums, or just realizing it themselves they come to the realization they should NOT use downloaded sources encoded with Divx and Xvid for editing.

It is at this point the biggest psychological, physical and financial barriers confront them for the first time.

The pyschological one is they probably have all 22 episodes of their favorite TV show sitting on their hard drive waiting to be put into a music video... But now they can't because they know it is "bad" to use Divx and Xvid encoded footage because of various issues we are all aware of like quality has already been lost during the encode; it screws up NLE program's timecode; etc.

Assuming they don't forge ahead and just use WMM2 and actually want to get better and produce quality videos, here is where the financial and physical barriers also rear their ugly heads too:

They probably don't have the hundreds of dollars* to buy a real NLE like Premiere, or Vegas and since they don't have these physically on their HD, they can't make a music video at this point in time.

*I know there are freeware NLE apps, but I am speaking from a general, first-time process of what a lot of aspiring music video editors go through.

The main point I am trying to convey is people don't like being told "no", especially when it is "just a music video" and something they are doing for fun.

This is what discourages a lot of them from the start. Point blank.

However, for the sake of discussion, let's assume this beginner accepts they should not use Divx or Xvid encoded material, gets access to a real program like Vegas or Premiere and is still committed to producing a video with better quality using retail DVDs.

The very next question they will ask is, "How do I get the movie/TV footage off the DVD so I can edit it?"

This leads us to the Guides and so-on-and-so-forth.

The big difference here and why I posted this example is the beginner in this scenario had to come to this point by trial-and-error INSTEAD OF the guides laying out the "dos and don'ts" of the bigger (macro) picture that may have saved them time in the long run (as well as educate them in the process).

If the guides said, don't use Divx or Xvid up front AND also said there are alternatives, the pyschological shock could probably be lessened and this would in-turn encourage the beginner to keep going because they will eventually "get over" the fact they can't (or shouldn't) use all of those 22 episodes they downloaded... But then they also have to be encouraged to get over the initial shock of the involved process of how to use DVDs for editing because this (AviSynth; DGIndex) is another long and fairly complicated process as well and will take more time to learn before they even start editing.

Again, this is exactly the process most persons new to this hobby go through and why I feel there needs to be more emphasis on the big picture (macro) at the start and then gradually ease them into the more gritty details (micro).

To wrap this up, take the common example of learning how to drive a car.

The very first thing you learn are the rules of the road and how to interact with other cars (macro) as in what you should and should not do. You then learn how the gear shift works, what button activates your turn-signals, etc. (micro) These are the smaller details that make driving possible.

[Zarxrax]

Good points.