Simple question about clip management

[Likely]

hi, im not new to computers but am new to making amv's, and am attempting to make my first one currently (gulp). wmm crashes too often so im going with videowave, and it will be handling mostly raw fansubs.

my question is simply about the logistics of handling all the different scenes within an amv. say if i plan on 40 scenes within a video should i tap from the source(s) 40 different times to churn out my final product? or do authors usually trim the sources beforehand (to just the scenes they want) and then merge all the new clips together? the 2nd method seems more feasible and easier on your computer, but since you're now creating from a copy of the source, the video quality would drop twice in your final production right?

or am i looking at this all the wrong way? please help

thank you in advance

[devilmaykickass]

raw fansubs.

[Willen]

but since you're now creating from a copy of the source, the video quality would drop twice in your final production right?

Since ultimately you are going to recompress an already (lossy) compressed video you are correct in assuming that the final product will have lower quality. But if you are careful in making your clips and use the right amount of AviSynth processing, you can at least minimize any loss. The key is to use a LOSSLESS codec in creating the clips you will edit with. The most common options are Uncompressed RGB, Huffyuv, and Lagarith. Avoid creating clips with any other codec unless you are using a "bait and switch" technique.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... meth1.html

I personally create clips to edit with as recommended in the guide I linked above. It generally uses less CPU processing power to decode these smaller clips and less RAM to open. Plus, it saves on hard drive space compared to converting whole episodes. Whatever you do, avoid editing directly with the raws. Distribution codecs like XviD, DivX, WMV9, h.264, and the like, are meant for watching not for editing with. It's probably a very good idea to read the entire guide and keep in handy for reference.

The following spiel is entirely OPTIONAL to read and gets VERY TECHNICAL. You can ignore the rest of this post if you are so inclined.

Uncompressed RGB is availble to everyone, but since it is uncompressed video, the files are huge. Not the best option for disk space, but since this is essentially the raw video file, the quality is the same as the original.*

Huffyuv is probably the most recommended codec. It does compress the video file so the clips take less hard drive space than Uncompressed RGB, but it does it in a way that is similar to how data is stored in a ZIP file. The key is that it uses lossless compression. So the resultant video is reproduced exactly from the time it is compressed to the time it is decompressed.*

Lagarith is the second most recommended codec for editing. It does use more compression techniques than Huffyuv so the files that are created take up less disk space. It also has a possible advantage to Huffyuv in working with DVD sources since it is able to use the YV12 colorspace (which is what DVDs use) in addition to RGB and YUY2. The downside is that to get the higher compression you need more computer processing. On slower machines this may mean that the clips will not play back smoothly. I've personally had video glitch issues with Lagarith encoded files in my video editing software (Magix MEP10).*

Now, you may be wondering about the asterisks (*) above. Well, lossless codecs are not quite truly lossless all the time. Depending on whether a colorspace conversion occurs, you may have video output that is slightly or noticably different from the source video. You remember that I mentioned that DVDs use YV12? Well, Uncompressed RGB uses... RGB colorspace. So colorspace conversions of DVD footage are unavoidable with Uncompressed RGB. Similarly, Huffyuv uses the YUV (or more specifically YUY2) colorspace or RGB. There is a version of Huffyuv that uses the YV12 colorspace which is included in ffdshow. Lagarith, as I mentioned above is able to store color info in YV12, YUY2, and RGB. Colorspace conversions are nearly unavoidable when you are dealing with multiple programs that handle color data differently. But essentially, you want to minimize the amount of conversions to lower any possible loss in picture quality. Since you mentioned raws, I'm assuming that they are encoded in either XviD or a similar distribution codec (DivX, WMV, h.264, etc) which uses YV12 colorspace. So you may wish to convert to RGB immediately (especially if your editor prefers or only uses RGB), or keep it YV12 and let your editor do it's own conversions internally. Then edit in one colorspace and finally output to RGB or YV12 for final processing and compression. (Essentially, YV12 input > convert to RGB > edit solely in RGB > output in RGB > convert to YV12 > process and compress final video in YV12. Or, if you are lucky, do everything in YV12.)

[Likely]

Whatever you do, avoid editing directly with the raws. Distribution codecs like XviD, DivX, WMV9, h.264, and the like, are meant for watching not for editing with.

thanks willen, that does make a lot of sense. while working on it last night i found out that you just had to break up the clips first, because accessing from the sources to get each 1-sec clip just doesnt work lol. what ive been doing is cutting up and converting small scenes to wmv, and then trimming then to the exact parts i need. so far ive got about 30 secs of the video done and its been a lot of fun.

i believe you and everyone else when you recommend avisynth, virtualdubmod, huffyuv, and largarith. but can you or anyone tell me a few things about them? like,

1- what are they used for exactly

2- how do i get them

3- most importantly, how would i go about implementing them into what im already doing with videowave?

im sorry if this sounds newbie. but i just want to do this the right way and gotta start somewhere. those guides seems useful but they dont answer the most basic question of the program's purposes or implementation into your video editor.

thanks in advance.

[madbunny]

raw fansubs.

Perhaps he means, unlicenced raw video captures.....

i believe you and everyone else when you recommend avisynth, virtualdubmod, huffyuv, and largarith. but can you or anyone tell me a few things about them? like,
1- what are they used for exactly
2- how do i get them
3- most importantly, how would i go about implementing them into what im already doing with videowave?

In a nutshell.

You take your footage, convert it to something that isn't lossy, edit with it. Export the lossless version, compress it, upload it.

Avisynth, and virtualdub are used in the beginning and end of this. First to convert your DVDs, or whatever to something lossless, or near lossless. (ie:Hufyuv, or lagarith), then later when you're done and have exported your project, to compress it down to a reasonable size for distribution.

They are part of the AMVapp, available from the avtech main page. (already linked above).
The majority of the AVtech guide is all about how to use these, so reading it is suggested.

[Likely]

thanks madbunny, even that little summary helps a newbie like me.

i also have a specific problem that none of the guides mention. there are a couple of clips where i need to pause on certain frames, to slightly extend the length of the clips. seeing that videowave has no such editing tool, that leaves me with messing with the sources. what ive tried is extracting a frame and using it was an image clip in-between the split-up clip, but the change in quality is too evident as it passes. ive also tried grouping a few .3 sec clips together with just the scene i need but that is shaky also. so, how in virtualdub can i copy a frame, dupe it over and over, and then itsert it back into the clip? this would be just what i need to do. it sounds like a small issue but videwave has failed me.

[Willen]

You could select the frames you need in VirtualDub and export a tiny AVI clip of it. Load it into your video as much as needed.

Another option is to output a still image or still image sequence from VirtualDub. Again, select the necessary frames but instead of Save as AVI, use Save image sequence. WARNING! This could result in many images depending on the length. For a 29.97 fps source, a 1 second clip contains 30 images (frames). For a .3 second clip, this means 10 frames.

Don't over use this though, if the sequence lasts long enough it will start to look odd.