Thoughts on substance in AMVs

[Willen]

TIP! What may seem like random clips, are sometimes very carefully chosen scenes that only the editor knows why they appear.

Anyways, for me, MOOD > story. Does this mean I'm emo?

[Knowname]

stuff

uhh... you didn't even follow the examples I posted.. I was posting those as examples of videos that don't have a story but have progression regardless of that fact. |:

They are drama videos, no doubt about it... but did they tell a story of events that unfolded from one to the next? No. They were based purely on expressive emotions that correlate with the song. Are you really gonna tell me that they can't be considered drama because of the fact that there is no coherent storyline? |: Or that neither of those videos had progression because of the lack of such story? |:

As for story = progression .. as far as a narrative then it is more than likely yes, but in terms of other elements such as emotion or growth... not necessarily.. a character could have NO change occur to them in the duration of an AMV even with the presence of a clear narrative, so in that perspective of progression, then no.. story does not equal progression.

In terms of progression = story... that's not true either. Just as those examples had shown, the buildup of characters and emotions changed with the duration of the song, seemingly changing the perception of the viewer depending on how they interpret the imagery. So, therefore.. the video progrssed through the change in the characters and expressed emotions without showing any clear narrative whatsoever.

1) yes, they are drama but that's cuz they DO have a coherent story, afaik. For instance, in the Last Trans. it follows the song, right? So it would make sense to me that whatever story is being told is being covered by the song... if you could beleive it, but apparently that makes no sense to you so, yeah.

2) how did dictionary.com define story? ""a message that tells the particulars of an act or occurrence or course of events"" or course of events, not always inclusive, so it seems to me a story comes before OR during an event. In Jihaku, before you do anything he states he's trying to make it 'like the video' (like the video, like the song, like the anime, get the connection?? might as well watch the video, listen to the song, watch the anime, why do ppl say this? Because you still get the same message or story) therefor giving it a story. I'd call it more fun (or parody/ trailor) than drama, but in many cases there is no fun category.

So, every song has a message right?? the weakest among those being what you are talking about, but they still have a message ie story, it's just so week that there's not much progression (or substance) and that is what ppl complain about when they say no story. Earlier I said it was because you didn't work on it enough wich is not entireley true, more like you didn't plan it out right -_- or you purposefully ignored the story (like you said you do). I blew in here thinking one should never ignore his story, but misinterpreted it so it led to this (I'm sure VERY BORING lol) conversation, thankyou for at least helping me clear up what I was thinking.

I hate to state that my own 'no story' amv was made by me ignoreing the storyline... but, yes, it may have been, I ignored the storyline but not the message. Your own no story videos (the two I have on hand, a time for us and Waking Hour also intentionally 'suffer' from the same thing)

So your point has been made and it is taken as this is another way to make amvs, I just don't think you can truley have an amv with no story, just, as Ari touched upon, critics (especially amatuer 'critics' aka any joe blow with an opinion) don't tend to say what they mean. It seems you wanted to discuss if you could have trueley no story but still have substance (progression). Well, I think we've beaten this horse to death.... and even moreso.

[Kai Stromler]

So, every song has a message right?? the weakest among those being what you are talking about, but they still have a message ie story, it's just so week that there's not much progression (or substance) and that is what ppl complain about when they say no story. Earlier I said it was because you didn't work on it enough wich is not entireley true, more like you didn't plan it out right -_- or you purposefully ignored the story (like you said you do). I blew in here thinking one should never ignore his story, but misinterpreted it so it led to this (I'm sure VERY BORING lol) conversation, thankyou for at least helping me clear up what I was thinking.

I really wonder what you think of instrumentals in this regard, where there is nothing being communicated by standard language semantics. Any meanings are inherently created by the listener -- which is also the case with everything else, if you accept the deconstructionist point of view.

Of course, deconstructionism moots this entire thread, because every video becomes a text which can have varying interpretations: "video X has a story/concept of Y", "video X has a story/concept of Z", and "video X has no story/concept" can all be true of the same video simultaneously, even when Y != Z, provided that they're not all coming from the same person. Of course, that everyone gets to be equally not very right all the time is kind of the main reason that deconstructionism is fun.

--K

[JaddziaDax]

TIP! What may seem like random clips, are sometimes very carefully chosen scenes that only the editor knows why they appear.

Anyways, for me, MOOD > story. Does this mean I'm emo?

i agree... lol but i dont think youre emo... cause if you were O.o

youre not emo...

[Koopiskeva]

1) yes, they are drama but that's cuz they DO have a coherent story, afaik. For instance, in the Last Trans. it follows the song, right? So it would make sense to me that whatever story is being told is being covered by the song... if you could beleive it, but apparently that makes no sense to you so, yeah.

How exactly does 'following a song' equal to 'having a story'? A song in itself does not have to have any kind of story whatsoever, they can be made to simply express a mood without a sequence of events actually occurring within the song. Where are you extracting this 'story' from a ambient yet expressive instrumental that Corran uses in his video? The song can be interpreted in so many ways because of the lack of lyrics yet you actually think there's some kind of direct narrative that everyone can clearly see? You are nuts.

2) how did dictionary.com define story? ""a message that tells the particulars of an act or occurrence or course of events"" or course of events, not always inclusive, so it seems to me a story comes before OR during an event. In Jihaku, before you do anything he states he's trying to make it 'like the video' (like the video, like the song, like the anime, get the connection?? might as well watch the video, listen to the song, watch the anime, why do ppl say this? Because you still get the same message or story) therefor giving it a story. I'd call it more fun (or parody/ trailor) than drama, but in many cases there is no fun category.

Ok.. so he tried to make it 'like the video' ... where in the video does it state that he was trying to tell a 'story'? Nowhere, its a collage of emotions expressed through video and his way of presenting it was by following the original artists presentation and replacing scenes with anime... how the hell is that a 'story'? Especially if everyone interprets these emotions differently, and they are constantly changing.. where is the narrative in that in which eveyrone can clearly grasp the emotional intention? Nowhere... I think you're lumping the term 'story' with emotion, expression, mood, atmosphere amoing a slew of other terms.. that do not necessarily have anything to do with the term 'story.'

So, every song has a message right?? the weakest among those being what you are talking about, but they still have a message ie story, it's just so week that there's not much progression (or substance) and that is what ppl complain about when they say no story. Earlier I said it was because you didn't work on it enough wich is not entireley true, more like you didn't plan it out right -_- or you purposefully ignored the story (like you said you do). I blew in here thinking one should never ignore his story, but misinterpreted it so it led to this (I'm sure VERY BORING lol) conversation, thankyou for at least helping me clear up what I was thinking.[/story]

This is where you are wrong. A message DOES NOT equal having a story or vice versa. A story may have a message or a moral that is interpreted by the viewer as such.. but it is NOT inherently embedded. Here's a story... I walked to the store to buy some milk... and I came back and drank it. Is there any sort of message that places that in ANY category? NO. It is a simple straight story which meant absolutely nothing except that I purchased milk. There is NO message in that. Period. As for a message having to be embedded in a story, you are also wrong. Take the reverse of that previous example and see if that makes any sense at all... you can't interpret a story from something that doesn't have a message or even if it did, such as 'the message of the story was such that I was feeling frisky' ... that doesn't correlate with having to purchase milk.. yet it was the message, and the story didn't correlate.

As for saying that 'people that don't have a story didn't plan it out right' .. that is a bunch of BS. Just because an AMV doesn't have any sort of narrative to it and does not follow the anime tha was used or create an entirely diferent story altogether DOES NOT mean that the video was not planned out right nor that there was no efort placed in making the video. It cold mean any numerable amount of reasons, such being that the video was made to be an emotional reflective piece on how the editor reflects on th characters of the story and merely used a video to express that. Or such videos that commerate or honor people that they cherish and use an emotional amv to express that.. not necessarily following the story or creating a stroy at all, but simply using an AMV as a medium to express those feelings. Your narrow-minded causes you generalize such things about videos that 'no story' videos have no effort placed upon them and are therefore inferiror, when you don't take into account that are plenty of other reasons why an editor would make any video at any given time to express themselves, not just the anime, the song, or even a combination of both.

I hate to state that my own 'no story' amv was made by me ignoreing the storyline... but, yes, it may have been, I ignored the storyline but not the message. Your own no story videos (the two I have on hand, a time for us and Waking Hour also intentionally 'suffer' from the same thing)

Do you have any idea why I made those videos? Especially the Saikano one? No. You just interpreted it to be some mindless 'no story' video when each of those videos had something to do with my life at the time. They didn't have to follow any 'story' that you might say, they were used as a medium to express and reflect upon the emotions I was feeling at that time. In "A Time For Us," did you even question why it was named that or why I didn't follow the chronological timeline of Saikano? No. You just assumed I didn't 'plan it out,' yet that video has probably more depth then you could ever imagine, I didn't even want to release it at first because it was so close to me, that it really was not meant for an audience such as yourself simply looking for some coherent story. Hell, that video won 'Best Portrayal of a Series" at AnimeDestiny 2005, and you dare to tell me that it has NO STORY? Obviously people saw that there was a story, though it was not intentional, enough such that it won an award for the best portrayal of that particular series. So, in that aspect, it both had a message that is only clear to me, yet for others, it had a clear story for them to dub it enough as an entire protrayal of a whole series. Tell me, where does your 'no story' logic fit in there? Nowhere, its merely an assumpption on your part and your lazyness to remove yourself from such a narrow view on viewing AMVs.

[Inuyasha the 3rd]

Ok, I recieved something like that too in quick comments. It's gotten quite common and annoying.

AMVs exist to contribute the anime not for some story. If u want story, go watch the freakin series. And seriously, who gives a shit as long as it's fun to watch.

This dude has a point. Who cares if an AMV doesnt have story. And just like I said before, it depends on what type of AMV you are doing.

[Knowname]

So, every song has a message right?? the weakest among those being what you are talking about, but they still have a message ie story, it's just so week that there's not much progression (or substance) and that is what ppl complain about when they say no story. Earlier I said it was because you didn't work on it enough wich is not entireley true, more like you didn't plan it out right -_- or you purposefully ignored the story (like you said you do). I blew in here thinking one should never ignore his story, but misinterpreted it so it led to this (I'm sure VERY BORING lol) conversation, thankyou for at least helping me clear up what I was thinking.

I really wonder what you think of instrumentals in this regard, where there is nothing being communicated by standard language semantics. Any meanings are inherently created by the listener -- which is also the case with everything else, if you accept the deconstructionist point of view.

Of course, deconstructionism moots this entire thread, because every video becomes a text which can have varying interpretations: "video X has a story/concept of Y", "video X has a story/concept of Z", and "video X has no story/concept" can all be true of the same video simultaneously, even when Y != Z, provided that they're not all coming from the same person. Of course, that everyone gets to be equally not very right all the time is kind of the main reason that deconstructionism is fun.

--K

Instrumentals are very touchy things, imo, I like to sync movement to certain instruments like Aieli_Ileia's 1:26 or Kevin Caldwell's Caffein Enconium. It takes ALOT of work to do, much more than it would seem. That's a good question, though, one that would seem to follow Koop's line of videos. I'd like to think about it more when I get time, more when I get back -_- maybe

[requiett]

WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS An AMV is only coherent if stuff happens in chronological order... WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS

[Knowname]

1) yes, they are drama but that's cuz they DO have a coherent story, afaik. For instance, in the Last Trans. it follows the song, right? So it would make sense to me that whatever story is being told is being covered by the song... if you could beleive it, but apparently that makes no sense to you so, yeah.

How exactly does 'following a song' equal to 'having a story'? A song in itself does not have to have any kind of story whatsoever, they can be made to simply express a mood without a sequence of events actually occurring within the song. Where are you extracting this 'story' from a ambient yet expressive instrumental that Corran uses in his video? The song can be interpreted in so many ways because of the lack of lyrics yet you actually think there's some kind of direct narrative that everyone can clearly see? You are nuts.

I told you you wouldn't get this. anyway I am as boggled now as I was coming in. To me if you have a purpose, a reason for trying to progress than you have a story. Again, I've yet to find anything that does not have a story of some kind because, again, a story is "a message that tells the particulars of an act or occurrence or course of events". What I was trying to get at before, that totally flew over your head with the origin and stuff, was that one area of story is the backstory, not just in videos or media, in everything, history. That's what I was thinking of and was trying to bring it in but you didn't want to hear of it so I thought I'd try to go another path.

2) how did dictionary.com define story? ""a message that tells the particulars of an act or occurrence or course of events"" or course of events, not always inclusive, so it seems to me a story comes before OR during an event. In Jihaku, before you do anything he states he's trying to make it 'like the video' (like the video, like the song, like the anime, get the connection?? might as well watch the video, listen to the song, watch the anime, why do ppl say this? Because you still get the same message or story) therefor giving it a story. I'd call it more fun (or parody/ trailor) than drama, but in many cases there is no fun category.

Ok.. so he tried to make it 'like the video' ... where in the video does it state that he was trying to tell a 'story'? Nowhere, its a collage of emotions expressed through video and his way of presenting it was by following the original artists presentation and replacing scenes with anime... how the hell is that a 'story'? Especially if everyone interprets these emotions differently, and they are constantly changing.. where is the narrative in that in which eveyrone can clearly grasp the emotional intention? Nowhere... I think you're lumping the term 'story' with emotion, expression, mood, atmosphere amoing a slew of other terms.. that do not necessarily have anything to do with the term 'story.'

if you think about it the way I explained it, it does. I think your skipping something here. At first I thought it was me... but you know... I think it's you. o.0 I even asked your definition of story and tried to accept what you meant, and yes, in that context the videos you point out do not have story, but then I actually looked it up, and barring if you could find hard evidence that I am wrong I won't buy it. I think I'm being fair, but I also think your just being stubborn, I mean, with all the evidence (not to mention the entire english language) stacked against you I just fail to see your point.

This is where you are wrong. A message DOES NOT equal having a story or vice versa. A story may have a message or a moral that is interpreted by the viewer as such.. but it is NOT inherently embedded. Here's a story... I walked to the store to buy some milk... and I came back and drank it. Is there any sort of message that places that in ANY category? NO. It is a simple straight story which meant absolutely nothing except that I purchased milk. There is NO message in that. Period. As for a message having to be embedded in a story, you are also wrong. Take the reverse of that previous example and see if that makes any sense at all... you can't interpret a story from something that doesn't have a message or even if it did, such as 'the message of the story was such that I was feeling frisky' ... that doesn't correlate with having to purchase milk.. yet it was the message, and the story didn't correlate.

a good point, that sentance did have a very nonsensical storyline.

As for saying that 'people that don't have a story didn't plan it out right' .. that is a bunch of BS. Just because an AMV doesn't have any sort of narrative to it and does not follow the anime tha was used or create an entirely diferent story altogether DOES NOT mean that the video was not planned out right nor that there was no efort placed in making the video. It cold mean any numerable amount of reasons, such being that the video was made to be an emotional reflective piece on how the editor reflects on th characters of the story and merely used a video to express that. Or such videos that commerate or honor people that they cherish and use an emotional amv to express that.. not necessarily following the story or creating a stroy at all, but simply using an AMV as a medium to express those feelings. Your narrow-minded causes you generalize such things about videos that 'no story' videos have no effort placed upon them and are therefore inferiror, when you don't take into account that are plenty of other reasons why an editor would make any video at any given time to express themselves, not just the anime, the song, or even a combination of both.

If Dictionary.com says a story is a message I tend to beleive that. If I am wrong than Dictionary.com is wrong... than the entire English language is faulty

Actually a story doesn't need a narrative, a story doesn't DO the progressing, the theme does a story is only a message it can be assumed, it can be as simple as 'I want this video to be as popular and as pretty as it can be' or 'I want this video to mimic this rock video and look cool'.

I hate to state that my own 'no story' amv was made by me ignoreing the storyline... but, yes, it may have been, I ignored the storyline but not the message. Your own no story videos (the two I have on hand, a time for us and Waking Hour also intentionally 'suffer' from the same thing)

Do you have any idea why I made those videos? Especially the Saikano one? No. You just interpreted it to be some mindless 'no story' video when each of those videos had something to do with my life at the time. They didn't have to follow any 'story' that you might say, they were used as a medium to express and reflect upon the emotions I was feeling at that time. In "A Time For Us," did you even question why it was named that or why I didn't follow the chronological timeline of Saikano? No. You just assumed I didn't 'plan it out,' yet that video has probably more depth then you could ever imagine, I didn't even want to release it at first because it was so close to me, that it really was not meant for an audience such as yourself simply looking for some coherent story. Hell, that video won 'Best Portrayal of a Series" at AnimeDestiny 2005, and you dare to tell me that it has NO STORY? Obviously people saw that there was a story, though it was not intentional, enough such that it won an award for the best portrayal of that particular series. So, in that aspect, it both had a message that is only clear to me, yet for others, it had a clear story for them to dub it enough as an entire protrayal of a whole series. Tell me, where does your 'no story' logic fit in there? Nowhere, its merely an assumpption on your part and your lazyness to remove yourself from such a narrow view on viewing AMVs.

OK now your just being unreasonable... I thought I had enough time for this, but I don't... see ya in a few hours.

[JaddziaDax]

the entire English language is faulty

and this folks is why its one of the hardest languages to learn...