Thoughts on substance in AMVs

[JaddziaDax]

no offence koop but this thread is hurting my brain >.<

[Koopiskeva]

... the problem is that when they give an opinion about it, they tend to say their iopnion as if it were fact... like the editor did something wrong by not following the 'conventional' linear story in which any onlooker could follow. [edit] ...they should not limit themselves to watching videos in a certain way because they'd be missing much more than an apparent storyline...

I like that. It almost sounds like you're arguing that there isn't a 'right way' to judge an amv. There isn't, as far as I'm concerned, but most people seem to think there is. I think it's your original post that threw me the most. You said:

Sure, plenty of videos do have very linear story lines (some so much that its not longer an AMV, but rather simply a video with music in the background...

That's how you judge amvs - if the story is too linear, it's not an amv to you. You were very clear about that. And you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with you stating your opinion as if it were a generally accepted fact here. I don't agree with it, myself, but it probably is still a fact for the community. If enough people in the community believe it, it is a fact, right?

Yep.. I was being a bit hasty there without pointing out exactly what I meant.. it was really rather a moot point there.. not really what I was trying to propose |:

You don't consider linear story vids to be amvs, let alone to be good or proper amvs. Why would you be so frustrated if a few people don't consider your nonlinear nonstory vids to be proper amvs? I don't think anyone could change your mind about what you think counts as an amv. You won't change their minds, either. You can either correct them by explaining that most people here don't agree with them (so it's not a fact), or you can ignore them as being uninformed.

No, no.. I do consider those linear story videos to be amvs... but my opinion on them is that they have less to do with the music and more to do with the anime.. but I don't thnk any less of them in reagrds to amvs as a whole.. I don't go about stating that they don't belong i the community for having too much story and such. Changing people's minds about how they think about videos is something that probably won't happen.. but there's no harm in trying.. This is more of an infomative discussion on thoughts based on amv perception theory in reagrds to video storylines and substance.. and though I may suggest certain ways of viewing videos... they are merely that, suggestions. However, through this discussion, I believe that it can influence those with such closed-minded opinions to see videos beyond what they normally look for.

This whole "they say it like it's a fact" thing is troublesome. A video I like is good. A video I don't like is bad. A good video should have a story I can follow. A good random video should feature a theme I enjoy. Those are facts if I make the statements in an op. Opinions are by their very nature subjective. You click a box titled "opinion" in order to leave the feedback. There's no need to pepper the review with I think, I believe, it's my opinion, if you ask me, in my eyes, the way I see it, etc. It's an opinion. Everything in it is subjective.

It's not that I want those people to pepper their opinions with such as 'I think ' or 'I believe' and such.. and of course whenever you click that box.. whatever is written in it is supposed to be an opinion... but there are people who leave feedback stating opinions as if they knew better than the editor that created the video...

Here's a quick example:

Even though I understood the story you were attempting to convey, I wonder if it would have been possible to make it even more clear with some shuffled choices of clips.

What exactly is this person saying? The person had their own perception on the video and created the story for themselves.. yet there were a few 'clips' that they would have shuffled to make it more clear... is there basis upon this opinion that makes it fact? other than their own perception of what I had edited? No. Yet, they state their opinion as if it were an actual fact that I had some kind of story that I was actually trying to convey, even though that was not my intention... its an assumption they made on their own, and their opinion of it is reflected as a fact rather than opinion.

[requiett]

Let me sum this thread up in one sentence:
"Quit criticizing Koop!"

[Koopiskeva]

Let me sum this thread up in one sentence:
"Koop is awsm in bed"

Fix't |:

[requiett]

Let me sum this thread up in one sentence:
"Quit criticizing Koop in bed"

Fix't |:

Fixed.

[Koopiskeva]

I can't help it if I have stamina |:

[Lyrs]

Lies. I saw the video and it the other guy didn't orgasm even once!






Frankly, the anime footage I see in an amv is a clever visualization to the song. The footage is the merely eye candy unless stated otherwise, whereas the song is where the message is at, if there is one. Otherwise, I'm all into the sync and eye/ear sync candy.

[Orwell]

The substance or lack there as long as its well edited is just there to amuse. AMV's are as much as a way for me to find new music as anything else. If it's crappy editing put to a song I like, unless they really blew it I'll still hang onto it. Maybe try to encourage or suggest stuff if I feel like they have potential to become pretty good.

[Koopiskeva]

wait wait, ok, forget everything I said before. I tend to stumble over my words, but anyway yeah... So, you don't think that origin has anything to do with the story?

Umm.. no. I said that the origin of a video is an entirely different subject from the story.. they could correlate, but that's something else entirely... not the point of the thread. |:

For instance I'm downloading an amv right now cuz I like the anime it's based on and the amv creator that made it. That's pretty ++ on story alone.

How is it that basing it off an anime you like and the amv being made by certain amv creator = a ++ on story? That's merely an asumption on what the editor may have intended... you're basing story on something that are only parts of the AMV, not the AMV itself.

OK I'll try to come up with a situation with no story but the theme was just INCREDIBLE. OK, take the first time I downloaded one of Suberunker's videos (a different side of me), I had NO idea who he was, it was an avi so whatever... so no story just the theme got to me. Yes, I guess in that sense you can have no story, no positive origin (up until than I HATED Golden Boy AMVs), but.... ;p It'll never happen to you ;p (or Suberunker again... sneaky bastards) so I think you'll disagree.

So, just because you know who I am or you think you do and have a certain assumption on the things I create, it means that whatever I create already has a negative impact on what you view? You've got a pretty biased sense in viewing these don't ya... and because of that, you'll most likely miss quite a bit.. not only in my videos.. but everyone elses... not just about story, concept, or origin, but in deeper levels of expression. |:

How do you define story? In relation to theme of coarse...

In relation to theme and AMVs, I define story as events that occur in the video to make certain situations progress from one to the next. In regards to theme in that aspect, those would be aspects of the story that re-occur in the video in various ways, either simply in the atmosphere or the mood of the video to objects that continually help to move the story in the video.

[inthesto]

I stopped reading the topic closely around the end of the second page, so I'm probably going to end up echoing what's already been said.

Simply put, story obviously can go into AMVs, but to claim that all AMVs should have a story is narrow-minded. I've seen several other people in this topic try to substitute the word "story" with either "theme" or "concept," but that's fairly useless since those words are just as vague, if not moreso. While I prefer the term "concept" myself and believe that all AMVs have one and the quality of the AMV is the relation between its concept and its execution, we'd end up spending all day arguing how to define the word, and robots would have finished setting up the Matrix by the time we're done.

So, let's get back to this notion of "stories omg" instead.

I don't know where this secret cabal of "all AMVs must have story to be good" is coming from, but it clearly exists if there's such an in-depth topic about it. As I said previously, you can talk about AMVs like that. While I'd go on to say "and you would be wrong" or "but your view of everything also sucks," Koop asked us not to state our own opinions as facts, so I guess I'll be forced to take the more intelligent route.

By trying to say that all AMVs should have a story, you just cut too many AMVs out of the picture. Sure, you're going to eliminate 99% of the shitty Naruto/DBZ/my cat is on the table AMVs that were made in two hours with WMM, you're also going to cut out thousands of excellent AMVs. Off the top of my head, I can easily think of Otohiko's The Plot Thickens. There's zero story to that AMV, yet it's one of my personal favorites. In fact, siffering through my favorites list, only three or four of my listed seventeen feature a real tangible story.

The short of it is, if you trap yourself in story-mode, you're missing out. If you don't believe me, then go kill some ethnic minorities. I hear it's really fun.