Plan B for when the ORG bites it.

badmartialarts · Post by **badmartialarts** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:53 pm

Spatula_Castle wrote:...I'm not sure if pigeons or bats could carry a CD without damaging it.

They could grip it by the jewel case!

</Monty Python reference>

CelticWhisper · Post by **CelticWhisper** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 am

Spatula_Castle wrote:I hate to be the bearer of sad depressing truths, but I seriously doubt there is a legit Plan B...I'm not sure if pigeons or bats could carry a CD without damaging it.

Seriously, though, if the worst does come to the worst there is very little anyone can do about it. They have the copyrights, they decide what can and can't be done with their music. Obviously, there's nothing that can be done at this point without drawing even further attention to this site and only causing it to spiral down farther. The best that can be done is to keep quiet and hope that word doesn't spread.

I say just enjoy it while you still can.

While I myself enjoyed the before time in the long, long ago when making AMV's was an underground thing, I didn't have any options. It was very difficult for me to find any website with AMV's that was functioning, and I myself had no place to host them. I have to use free/cheap editing software (I'm poor!) so I really hope this site isn't shut down.

No.

No no no no no.

You move to anonymous and secure hosting methods. Go through a proxy and post a .torrent on a bunch of trackers. I mean, every public and even private tracker you can find.

Go a step further if you know how to use Usenet, and post it there too. Upload it to P2P services, E-mail it to friends with Gmail accounts who can store the large files, set up your own Secure-FTP server and host it yourself, only giving passwords to trusted individuals and letting a web of trust grow from there.

The bottom line is, EDUCATE YOURSELF about technology and figure out how you can use it to protect your privacy and Fair Use rights (which this does fall under-nonprofit derivative fan works). Learn to use proxies. Learn to use encryption. Remember that breaking encryption takes a long time and a lot of resources, and they have to pay people to use those resources for that time in order to do it. Learn to make it a headache-an EXPENSIVE headache-for these companies to keep threatening the fans.

Yeah, I'm an information security professional who understands this stuff, and it's really easy for me to go on and on about how everyone should encrypt. I know it will take time to learn, but it's worth it on so many levels it's not even funny. I know it takes time to learn how to configure UNIX/Linux/Mac OS X/BSD to run Apache or a secure FTP service. This, too, is worth it, and hey, it'll help you get a tech job if you ever apply for one.

Just because one site gets slammed with a legal threat doesn't mean the whole scene is ruined for everyone. I, for one, fully intend as I was saying last night to create AMVs using all of these bands' songs and then host them without a-m-v.org ever seeing the slightest hint of it, except of course for this post. It'll serve a multifaceted purpose: It will create content for people to enjoy, it will protect this website from further reprisals as Phade will be able to honestly say "The guy never went through us for hosting, we have nothing to do with him," and it will show the corporate fat cats that the Internet is a big place, and geeks are smarter, faster, and a lot scarier when pissed off, than they could ever hope to be.

Serenity anyone? Can't stop the signal.

Rozard · Post by **Rozard** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:23 am

Could we get this thread locked? Please? Thanks.

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:35 am

CelticWhisper wrote:Yeah, I'm an information security professional who understands this stuff

You might understand the technology, but I do not agree with the implications of what you advocate.

Why do you think going further underground is acceptable? Why do you rule out the possibility of legalization? Is it because you think that's somehow uncool, or do you just think it's impossible?

(Oh, on a related subject: you can't place your one AMV under a Creative Commons license, for you do not have the privileges to apply that license to all components of your work. The edits and any augmentations, maybe, but certainly not the original video, and I don't think Nightwish has gotten into CC just yet.)

DarkSchneider · Post by **DarkSchneider** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:09 am

I know what you mean. There were times I had thought putting certain parts of the original video for the song would make it better, but either I later abandonded the project or I just didnt follow through after trying the theory. The closest I've ever done when using a source from the music video was the audio cause sometimes you might like the version in the music video more than what they got on the CD (such was the case for Crimson). Thats the closest ive got to using an original music video as source.

Warlocket · Post by **Warlocket** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:46 am

I should have worded that differently.

If distribution of AMV's as a whole (not just on this site) becomes illegal, then there aren't any legit backup plans.

And it's not a question of where the pigeon grips it! It's a matter of it can grip it at all.

CelticWhisper · Post by **CelticWhisper** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:05 pm

trythil wrote:
CelticWhisper wrote:Yeah, I'm an information security professional who understands this stuff
You might understand the technology, but I do not agree with the implications of what you advocate.

Why do you think going further underground is acceptable? Why do you rule out the possibility of legalization? Is it because you think that's somehow uncool, or do you just think it's impossible?

(Oh, on a related subject: you can't place your one AMV under a Creative Commons license, for you do not have the privileges to apply that license to all components of your work. The edits and any augmentations, maybe, but certainly not the original video, and I don't think Nightwish has gotten into CC just yet.)

I don't rule out the possibility of legalization, but I do acknowledge its infinitesimal chance of happening. Because of this, going further underground is the only remaining course of action.

As for why, we have been shown that the content industry doesn't care about our fair use rights. Because of this, it is up to us to take these rights by force if need be. There is nothing morally wrong with the creative work people do on this site: it shows support for animated series and music, is done out of an appreciation for the art, is NOT done for profit, and nobody assumes ownership (aside from my CC foible, which I will correct when I get a moment) of media other than their own manipulation of the source material.

This act as taken by the record industry is nothing more than corporate greed at work, and I fully intend to use every technological resource at my disposal to throw it right back in Big Music's face, and in a way such that they will not be able to retaliate against me or this website.

Copyright is fine when it's actually used in its original spirit. However, when it tramples all over the face of private citizens' not-for-profit Fair Use rights, is it NOT to be respected or treated with any semblance of authority, and I have no intentions of respecting it or treating it as such in this case.

I'm not forcing anyone to join me in my actions. But at the same time, my decision will not be swayed. Too often have people been scared by these greed-mongers, and too few are willing to demonstrate that they won't tolerate being screwed with.

I know anime fans seem very accepting of copyright and "intellectual property" holders' rights, and that's all fine and good. Maybe it has something to do with the fansub scene, maybe it's a love for the animators. Thing is, I'm of the Slashdot-reading "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" geek crowd, and this kind of thing really irritates me. Squaresoft shut down the Chrono Trigger Resurrection project. As a result, I've not bought a single one of their products since. I've been boycotting the RIAA and bands/companies like this already for about 3 years, but this certainly would've led me to start if I weren't in the first place.

Whatever, though. Join me, or don't. I'm fighting this fight, though. Sorry, Phade, but I'm not content to just sit by quietly and let them trample my rights, saying nothing "to keep the peace" while my silence demonstrates that we accept it.

Warlocket · Post by **Warlocket** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:30 pm

I'm thinking the main problem (other than the money/greed thing) is that it's the band's music being freely distributed on the internet which, as we all know, has been determined to be illegal. Yes, it's not exactly the same thing since we are trying to be creative and entertain people, not just give out free music. Unfortunately, it's not difficult at all for someone to download a video, rip off the music, and just delete the footage.

Whether I would actually define all this as stealing...I'm not sure. I've never delved too deeply into legalities before. If I get arrested for something, then I'll know I've done something wrong.

CelticWhisper · Post by **CelticWhisper** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:02 pm

You're right about downloading the video and extracting the audio.

But think about this for a minute: WHY BOTHER?

First of all, they'd be downloading a 50MB+ file for what would equate to a 5MB MP3.

Second, it takes time and effort to split tracks like that.

And finally, everyone knows damn well that that 5MB MP3 is easy to get on its own. I know the RIAA is basically stupid (literally-they don't understand what they're fighting, and that's why it scares them), but they HAVE to have enough grey matter to understand that this is clearly a mountains-from-molehills scenario. I can think of about 6 places I could go right this minute to pirate everything these bands have ever put out in one fell swoop. If people want Creed or Evanescence music, they're going to get it the quickest way possible, and I'll give you one clue: it sure as hell ain't downloading and splitting a huge video file.

madbunny · Post by **madbunny** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:30 pm

CelticWhisper wrote:You're right about downloading the video and extracting the audio.

But think about this for a minute: WHY BOTHER?

First of all, they'd be downloading a 50MB+ file for what would equate to a 5MB MP3.

Second, it takes time and effort to split tracks like that.

And finally, everyone knows damn well that that 5MB MP3 is easy to get on its own. I know the RIAA is basically stupid (literally-they don't understand what they're fighting, and that's why it scares them), but they HAVE to have enough grey matter to understand that this is clearly a mountains-from-molehills scenario. I can think of about 6 places I could go right this minute to pirate everything these bands have ever put out in one fell swoop. If people want Creed or Evanescence music, they're going to get it the quickest way possible, and I'll give you one clue: it sure as hell ain't downloading and splitting a huge video file.

What's your point?
On the back of your cd it says: All rights reserved. Unauthorized reproduction, hiring, lending, public performance and broadcasting prohibited. Your CDs probably even have this on the actual disk as well.

IE: it's illegal. You can make it legal, or accept that your hobby involves violating some things. All this grumbling is pointless.

So, there are easier ways to get music.. that's not the issue. They don't care. Actually I don't care either. I make videos, I teach people AMV making where I work, I'm going to keep doing it till it becomes unfeasable or boring.