I Didn't Know Where To Post This But, Business Proposition

[Mike of the Desert] · Post by **[Mike of the Desert]** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:34 pm

I was joking ; ) That's because there is the ":P"
Do not worry about that post, here are 1.00 AM o' clock and so I'm damned sleepy, I couldn't even write well italian, sorry about that ;P I tried to be more clear posting on the other thread.

sasuke2468 · Post by **sasuke2468** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:32 pm

hmm every1 says it would b illigal for u to pay us to make an amv to this but i heard that our work is protected by law. If we add a single effect and edit it to the point where we don't just show the whole episode in the exact order it came in its considered our work. and we'd have the permission from the bands to use their music two correct? then why would it b illigal? I'd love to be paid for my hard work, but then again i'm not quite as skilled as others nor do i have as good of programs as some others, but why shouldn't we get paid? On this site we make it free so we all can enjoy one another's but if a band asks for a amv and offers to pay why shouldn't we accept? just my opinion, but knowing this site unless i get lucky im gonna be bashed by most of the people who respond to this... but if someone that knows more about this it'd be kewl if u tune me in. ^_~

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:26 pm

sasuke2468 wrote:hmm every1 says it would b illigal for u to pay us to make an amv to this but i heard that our work is protected by law.

Where did you hear that?

dokool · Post by **dokool** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:26 am

sasuke2468 wrote:hmm every1 says it would b illigal for u to pay us to make an amv to this but i heard that our work is protected by law. If we add a single effect and edit it to the point where we don't just show the whole episode in the exact order it came in its considered our work. and we'd have the permission from the bands to use their music two correct? then why would it b illigal? I'd love to be paid for my hard work, but then again i'm not quite as skilled as others nor do i have as good of programs as some others, but why shouldn't we get paid? On this site we make it free so we all can enjoy one another's but if a band asks for a amv and offers to pay why shouldn't we accept? just my opinion, but knowing this site unless i get lucky im gonna be bashed by most of the people who respond to this... but if someone that knows more about this it'd be kewl if u tune me in. ^_~

You've obviously never learned a single thing about copyright, 'fair use', or proper english. Can't help you with the last one but if you search for "Are AMVs Illegal" or a similar phrase you'll find plenty of threads on the 'Org covering the subject in detail, to death.

In short, you have no idea what you're talking about and should probably shut up before you possibly mislead others into believing anything you've said.

[Mike of the Desert] · Post by **[Mike of the Desert]** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:10 am

dokool wrote:
sasuke2468 wrote:hmm every1 says it would b illigal for u to pay us to make an amv to this but i heard that our work is protected by law. If we add a single effect and edit it to the point where we don't just show the whole episode in the exact order it came in its considered our work. and we'd have the permission from the bands to use their music two correct? then why would it b illigal? I'd love to be paid for my hard work, but then again i'm not quite as skilled as others nor do i have as good of programs as some others, but why shouldn't we get paid? On this site we make it free so we all can enjoy one another's but if a band asks for a amv and offers to pay why shouldn't we accept? just my opinion, but knowing this site unless i get lucky im gonna be bashed by most of the people who respond to this... but if someone that knows more about this it'd be kewl if u tune me in. ^_~
You've obviously never learned a single thing about copyright, 'fair use', or proper english. Can't help you with the last one but if you search for "Are AMVs Illegal" or a similar phrase you'll find plenty of threads on the 'Org covering the subject in detail, to death.

In short, you have no idea what you're talking about and should probably shut up before you possibly mislead others into believing anything you've said.

x2

I quote Dokool and there's not any doubt everyone will do this. Sasuke, if you want to know something more about this, think a little and you should understand =) The only way to get $ for this type of things is go to an University studing Publicity/Cinema and than luckly find a way in the work life. What you said actually go exactly in the opposite direction of the objective and ideal this site (and most of us) has.

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:39 am

dokool wrote:
sasuke2468 wrote:hmm every1 says it would b illigal for u to pay us to make an amv to this but i heard that our work is protected by law. If we add a single effect and edit it to the point where we don't just show the whole episode in the exact order it came in its considered our work. and we'd have the permission from the bands to use their music two correct? then why would it b illigal? I'd love to be paid for my hard work, but then again i'm not quite as skilled as others nor do i have as good of programs as some others, but why shouldn't we get paid? On this site we make it free so we all can enjoy one another's but if a band asks for a amv and offers to pay why shouldn't we accept? just my opinion, but knowing this site unless i get lucky im gonna be bashed by most of the people who respond to this... but if someone that knows more about this it'd be kewl if u tune me in. ^_~
You've obviously never learned a single thing about copyright, 'fair use', or proper english. Can't help you with the last one but if you search for "Are AMVs Illegal" or a similar phrase you'll find plenty of threads on the 'Org covering the subject in detail, to death.

In short, you have no idea what you're talking about and should probably shut up before you possibly mislead others into believing anything you've said.

It seems both of you don't know what you are talking about. Yes, AMV's are protected by law - copyright protected like any other intellectual or artistic work. For this it doesn't matter if they are copyright infringement or not. So they can still be illegal.

dokool · Post by **dokool** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:40 am

Keeper of Hellfire wrote:[It seems both of you don't know what you are talking about. Yes, AMV's are protected by law - copyright protected like any other intellectual or artistic work. For this it doesn't matter if they are copyright infringement or not. So they can still be illegal.

Whether AMVs are protected by law is up for debate - yes, it's a derivative work, but at the same time none of the companies involved (read: music labels, anime studios, etc) have given us permission to distribute. The law's much shakier considering that unlike fanart (in which stuff kinda like the source is drawn), we're actually using the source itself.

So, while it technically may not illegal for us to make an AMV (depending on what the current mode of thought is), it is illegal for us to distribute it, show it widely, etc. I suggest you take my earlier-posted advice and search for 'copyright' or 'illegal'. This the argument has been done to death and the point is that you're wrong because I do know what I'm talking about and sasuke2468 is still an idiot for offering the advice he did.

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:55 am

dokool wrote:Whether AMVs are protected by law is up for debate - yes, it's a derivative work, but at the same time none of the companies involved (read: music labels, anime studios, etc) have given us permission to distribute.

Did you really read my post? It doesn't matter if the work which gets protected by copyright law is based on copyright infringement. To get copyright right protected it has only to fullfill two requirements:
1.)There must be own creative work in it.
2.)That's an irony, 'cause it's that what rises the question if an AMV is legal or not, it has to be published.

dokool wrote:The law's much shakier considering that unlike fanart (in which stuff kinda like the source is drawn), we're actually using the source itself.

It needs less effort to create a copyright protected work than you assume. For example, if you make a collection of criminal stories (from others) and issue them, that collection gets copyright protected. You don't make any change to the original works, what an AMV creator does.

dokool wrote:So, while it technically may not illegal for us to make an AMV (depending on what the current mode of thought is), it is illegal for us to distribute it, show it widely, etc.

That is debatable. Depending on how the law is interpreted, even the publishing of AMV can be covered by several clauses of the copyright law. The only thing what would make it definatly illegal is if you would make money with it without permission of all copyright holders. So that's the point where sasuke2468 is wrong.

dokool wrote:I suggest you take my earlier-posted advice and search for 'copyright' or 'illegal'.

Why should I if I have the impression that you even didn't read my short post to the end? But for your information, I did not only read such a thread, I'd posted in it too.

dokool wrote:...the point is that you're wrong because I do know what I'm talking about...

Invalid. That's simply arrogant. It is obvious to me that you only have half the knowledge of the matter that you pretend to have.

TaylrMayd · Post by **TaylrMayd** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:56 pm

Everything thing that each of you have brought up are valid points. I can only speak for the music and musicians that I have worked with. If you go to this site:

www.soundclick.com/distilleryworksrecordings

The instrumentals on the site are owned by DistilleryWorks (DWI), but the songs from Zero Hour are owned by the group. All of the songs from TA are owned by DWI, although TA still has the right to used and distribute them as he pleases, any type of financial gain is made directly to DWI, who then disburse the agreed upon percentage of payment to TA.

All of the other songs are owned by the individual artists, therefore DWI had to get permission to use the songs for a compilation. The compilation as a whole product is copyrighted to DWI but if the individual song is used permission must be gotten from the artist. The thing is since the artist allowed DWI to use the material, DWI is entitled to a small percent of any proceeds made from that song.

I don't know how that would apply to AMV's and editors, but I don't think that most people get permission from either the musicians or creators of the anime to alter their original works.

Also since most copyright infringement laws include something referring to the recreation, replication, dissimenation, performance, as well as other things, how does that apply to AMV contest at cons?

I have stated before that I was not offering payment for the material, I know that, that would be unethical at the least, and illegal, probably. Payment was mentioned as a way of showing appreciation for the skill and time it takes to do AMV's. Plus, whatever that would have been made was not for resale. It was strictly for the individuals artists appreciation.

I really appreciate everyone taking this topic seriously.

TaylrMayd

P.S. I am at work so I didn't really proofread (no time).

dokool · Post by **dokool** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:15 pm

TaylrMayd wrote:Also since most copyright infringement laws include something referring to the recreation, replication, dissimenation, performance, as well as other things, how does that apply to AMV contest at cons?

Basically, all the companies agree to look the other way. However,it's been mentioned before that some cons (such as Anime Expo) have had grumblings from companies regarding their AMV contest, so who knows how long this free ride will last...