Something that bothers me. [about "Emo"]

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I assume the emo/post-emo thing has to do with the fact that these post-emo bands have gotten very respected and relatively popular (such as SDRF and the Promise Ring), while nobody seems to know Rites of Spring or the other two bands you mentioned (the Hated and Moss Icon, who I've also never heard of). And I guess people are hesitant to label a style as post-something-they've-never-heard-of-before. :p

Coincidentally, is emo a thing of the past now? Are there any non-post emo bands still operating? Or is it all post-emo? And where, if you can describe it, is the stylistic difference between emo and post-emo? There are huge differences between rock and post-rock, punk and post-punk, hardcore and post-hardcore, but the Promise Ring and the Get-Up Kids sound to me like the real McCoy (admittedly I have little experience with the real McCoy).

This is where I wish music was done up like literature, ie. there's fiction and there's non-fiction. You don't see Hemingway listed as Expatriate Post-War American Fiction in bookstores, for example.

[atrophiedXlungs]

This is where I wish music was done up like literature, ie. there's fiction and there's non-fiction. You don't see Hemingway listed as Expatriate Post-War American Fiction in bookstores, for example.

Ahh, but there are still subgenres of fiction. There's science fiction, mysteries, horror...and within literature, there's a greater tendency to compare authors to one another. For instance, anybody who knows their modern fiction can hardly describe Chuck Palahniuk without invoking J.G. Ballard. Or to describe H.P. Lovecraft without mentioning his more popular contemporary, Edgar Allen Poe would be nearly sinful. I could go on and on...in music, there's a plethora of subgenres to avoid having to say "It's a little like this, and somewhat like this, maybe with some of this mixed in..."

I assume the emo/post-emo thing has to do with the fact that these post-emo bands have gotten very respected and relatively popular (such as SDRF and the Promise Ring), while nobody seems to know Rites of Spring or the other two bands you mentioned (the Hated and Moss Icon, who I've also never heard of). And I guess people are hesitant to label a style as post-something-they've-never-heard-of-before. :p

Yeah, you're completely correct. Many, many more people know about post-emo / various fake-emo bands than about the real McCoy, mostly due to the fact that many emo / screamo bands are generally short-lived...and they also stay close to the DIY work-ethic of hardcore, because they're still hardcore bands (thus, generally not gaining much popularity within the time they were around).

And where, if you can describe it, is the stylistic difference between emo and post-emo? There are huge differences between rock and post-rock, punk and post-punk, hardcore and post-hardcore, but the Promise Ring and the Get-Up Kids sound to me like the real McCoy (admittedly I have little experience with the real McCoy).

To explain it in words, post-emo bands are indie-rock bands, while emo bands are hardcore bands. But I think here, a sound is worth a thousand characters. So to experience the stylistic differences, I suggest you take an honest listen to these bands:

Moss Icon - I really think they're the definitive emo band, and they really are fantastic. And I know we're not supposed to advocate downloading on this forum, but I think it can be justified in this case: everything they released is out of print, due to their old label, Veriform, going out of business in 2002. So, fire up your Soulseek.
Indian Summer - I think their discography's still in print on some label, I have no idea which, though.
Native Nod - Discography on Gern Blandsten Records. (no, that isn't a typo!)
Heroin - They're simply amazing, if you take the time to listen to them. Agressive, emotional hardcore punk...Discography's out on Gravity Records.
Swing Kids - Members of this band went on to form the incredibly abrasive noisecore outfit the Locust...maybe they fall into the catagory of "screamo," but in this case, the difference is mostly semantics. They also have a discography out on Gravity.
Orchid - They're a band that would fall into the "Emo-violence" catagory. I made an AMV using one of their songs, and successfully alienated the vast majority of the audience, due to the massive amount of noise exiting the speakers (I haven't had a chance to post it on here yet, though). Their discography is out on Clean Plate Records.
Jerome's Dream - Another emo-violence band. Their discography is out on Alone Records. And while browsing that website, I found a video...I haven't watched it, so I have no clue whether there's any sound / video quality whatsoever(in truth, there likely is none...). Here: Live @ the Bristol Skate Park
Saetia - An excellent melodic screamo band, they have a discography on Level Plane Records. You can also hear mp3's (and read lyrics) at their old website (click releases).
Circle Takes the Square - For some reason, they're actually relatively popular these days(for a screamo band, that is). They have a couple things out right now, and you can hear sounds here. And there's lyrics there too, I suggest reading them.

Coincidentally, is emo a thing of the past now? Are there any non-post emo bands still operating? Or is it all post-emo?

Hmmm...that's a tough question to answer. Because screamo is still very much emo, as is emo-violence...but as for the old sound, it's something of a rarity. Off Minor is a band that still plays something akin to old-school emo, and they're sorta-together(the members live far away from one another, so they don't play shows often). And there are a few others, like Envy and Ampere (I've heard Cap'N'Jazz is good as well, but I haven't checked them out yet). But like I said, it's a rarity...screamo is much more prolific, and I can also name more current emo-violence bands than old-school emo bands that are currently playing shows. But I'm continually discovering new bands...so, I don't know.

I think it's safe to say, that just like most meaningful musical revolutions, emo is dead...because when music becomes fashion, it loses it's sincerity, and when discussing punk, sincerity is really all there is to it (this is why punk is dead...and don't let anybody tell you different).

But then again...for some, emo will never die, because I think there will always be a few bands around innovating, playng what they want, playing what means something to them.

[bort]

the only thing that bothers me about "emo" is that some "people" actually "listen" to "it".

[nailz]

"lol"

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Cap'n Jazz broke up a long time ago and turned into (I think) American Football, Joan of Arc, and a couple other early Jade Tree bands. Their one available album, Analphabetapolothology, is a collection of a few EPs and singles that are all out of print.

And I've heard Orchid, for a start. I had heard them called spazz-core... see, at least with describing writers via other writers you can't just make up author names at will.

[atrophiedXlungs]

Spazz-core? That makes no sense.

...If you're in the dark here, Spazz was an excellent powerviolence (an extremely fast and metallic hardcore derivative) band, but to call Orchid as such is to atest that Spazz invented the style, which is far from true.

Another pet peeve of mine, is that a lot of people complain about the sheer amount of genres. But many of these genres aren't all that new(powerviolence started in the early 90's, people have complained about metalcore...that's circa '87, gridcore's from the 80's, noisecore from the 90's too), it's just these people have only been exposed to them recently. I think they secretly fear change.

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Spazz was an excellent powerviolence (an extremely fast and metallic hardcore derivative) band, but to call Orchid as such is to atest that Spazz invented the style, which is far from true.

Ah. This is what happens when I get my genre labels from the misinformed. Although I think the spazz of spazz-core was really just a testament to the style, not the actual band Spazz.

By the way, I suppose I shouldn't ask you about post-hardcore. I had been under the impression that emo was a post-hardcore subgenre, rather than a hardcore subgenre. I understood that post-hardcore bands swing two ways: pop-punk with hardcore influences (Elliott or Braid) or very technically complex (like Crime in Choir, Don Caballero). But if you're getting tired of long expository rants, I don't mind if you sit this one out ^^

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Sorry to doublepost, but did you write this?

[atrophiedXlungs]

I did not write it, nope. But it's far from the first thing written with the underlying subject "death to false emo!" (well, that's really just my take on it, though).

It's a big deal among genre-fascists like myself. =P