Let's talk advanced encoding, and bitrates :)

Wheee_It's_Me! · Post by **Wheee_It's_Me!** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:41 am

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:Don't get personal, you two.

I'll post any more followups through PM.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:43 am

Wow.

This is funny.

I would just like to take this moment and just go off the record here for a moment and say, just, what a wonderful time I'm having right now. The NME, thats marvelous baby, just marvelous. And the thing with the Wheee its just, no I can't say it, ah, it just gives me a rainbowy feeling all over. I love you guys, just a big, happy, loving. Right here. And the thing with the Tab, that was just genius. I can't get over it, I'm still laughing on the inside, but let's stop right now. You guys have just been a total gas, let me tell you. If there were an award for making people happy, right here right now. I'm telling you, this is just, this is the happy place. Say it with me now, happy place. No, not you over there in the corner, you can't say it, but those over there, and the children, it just makes us all feel so wonderful that your doing this for us. Well thats about enough of that.

sysKin · Post by **sysKin** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:44 am

There seems to be quite a lot of misunderstanding in this "mpeg-1 vs xvid" case. Let me please remind you, that:
- mpeg-4 and mpeg-1 are essentially the same thing
- mpeg-4 is a bit more efficient because it has more optimized syntax and data prediction - so it is able to encode the same data with less bytes
- mpeg-4 is *much much much* more efficient because it doesn't encode intra frames every 1 second. This is the main reason for just about every difference you can see. Set keyframes every 25 frames like in mpeg-1 and you're screwed.

The last point means that xvid needs about the third of mpeg-1's bitrate. The point before that changes this number to about 4th of mpeg-1's bitrate.

The first point means that mpeg-4 needs more or less the same hardware, same processing power, etc, like mpeg-1. Also produces the same artifacts.

Except for qpel, there is no extra evilness in mpeg-4 that wouldn't be used in mpeg-1 as well. Just some tuning.

Radek

NME · Post by **NME** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:55 am

My life is a deep hole filled with broken hopes and dreams, the internet is my only outlet to make myself feel better. I was frequently abused as a child and have psychological trauma which leads to delusional behavior, paranoia and stuff. I'm sorry that I come off like this, please try to be more sympathetic.

shirohamada · Post by **shirohamada** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:28 am

hello,
i'm one of the newest newbie on this board.
regarding Z3r01 post, i'm currently using xvid 1.0.0 final, 1.1 ? maybe later. MKV container and ogg vorbis. looking for, is it aoyumi's from the listening test recently ?
no divx from me anymore.

about vcd and svcd, you can beef up the bitrate more than 2736kbps, but that will be a non compliant svcd, it is called an xvcd or xsvcd, you need to check out your player if it can play it. my player, after many tests, i found out that it can only cope with until ~6500 kbps max more than that it will get jumpy. this player is china brand got for USD 50 (after convertion) 4 years ago, and still running strong.
that also means you can use dvd resolution, 720x480 or 704x480. an average bitrate of 3750kbps will fit on a 700MB cd for a 23 minutes anime or any video. and audio at 224kbps. depends on the source and how i like the anime 1950kbps can get 2 episode with one opening and ending at 192kbps audio at 24fps, 3:2 pulldown on playback.
another thing, i do tweak the Quantizer, in tmpgenc

@tab
i know that avatar from somewhere....

vorbis is too boring ? maybe you're right.

not to mention syskin, oh you're quite renowned

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:01 am

Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:Wow, you're not hostile or anything, are ya Tab?

You'll have to forgive Tab everyone, video encoding is like some sort of freakish religion for him, it's best to just nod along when he starts screaming about how we're all going to hell and so forth. o_O

Hm? Well, if you want to consider being a cynical asshole religion, then go right ahead. Either way, I can't fathom why you would expect renewed social graces every time you get bored and pop in here after a few months.
Anyway, I don't want to hear about religion from someone claiming to have a demon in his head.

SysKin, forgive me for not explaining beforehand. A year ago there was a pretty massive debate sparked by this guy about how Mpeg 4 couldn't do anything Mpeg 1 couldn't above 700kbps. He then changed it to 2000. Unsurprisingly, he was proven wrong. That's really the whole of it, I guess it seemed a lot longer with all the bullshit in between

Anyway, carry on.

Qyot27 · Post by **Qyot27** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:06 am

Z3r01 wrote:So to kick off, What is your codec & container of choice and why?

It depends on what I'm wanting to do. If I want a VCD or have to send it to someone that doesn't have very powerful hardware, I'll encode an MPEG-1 file using standard compliancy. Otherwise I use DivX 5.0.5 with AVI. If I absolutely need to preserve a particular effect I'll choose XviD since I found it was better at keeping the old film dust static effect due to all it's options. It doesn't really matter to me what XviD version I use, but I am known to switch between the newest build at the time and Koepi's Oct. 2002 stable. I'm actually planning on making a couple vids that would require subtitles, so I might use OGM in the future. I just like installing codecs on my comp so I have massive compatibility. And for some reason, I don't have problems with the codecs screwing each other up. And I only occasionally use ffdshow to handle Sorenson-encoded Quicktime files.

What rates do you use?

For my master editing files, I use HuffYUV, but lately I've been thinking about switching to Lagarith to save disk space. For my master viewing files, DivX 5.0.5 on Quantizer 1. For my newer distro files I use DivX 5.0.5, at Original 1-pass 3500kbps, and dimensions of 480x360, 480x320, or 480x272.

So what one would you use for encoding general rips and TV dumps?

I wouldn't really know, since I only rip something when I edit, and I can't do TV dumps yet. I don't have the equipment needed.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:06 am

Hold on, hold on. I didn't actually read this crap until now. MY BAD.

Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:What was your source with those two captures? You do know that the quality of MPEG-1 encoding is highly dependant upon the quality of the soruce footage. Xvid is quite good about taking crap and maintaing the same level of quality, when you encode crap with MPEG-1 though yer gonna wind up with even shittier looking crap. If you took the digital master and encoded both of them using MPEG-1 and Xvid, they would look quite similar. Using newer forms of Xvid (anything within the past 2 years or so) the quality of the Xvid encode will be slightly higher, although the difference will be negligable to most. Again though, it's highly dependant on source, which is why encoding in Xvid is superior, because it does a good job of maintaining the same level of shit quality when reencoding.

Can you please point me to the line of logic that leads to something as ridiculous as "mpeg 4 is better at re-encoding than mpeg 1"? Let me guess, you got that from the same source as your "mpeg 4 is more lossy with chroma than mpeg 1" argument, right?

Dannywilson · Post by **Dannywilson** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:20 am

NME wrote:I didn't find that hostile at all.
Get beat down enough times and you're eventually scared of everyone I guess.

Xvid CBR 2500

MPEG1 CBR 2500

IN THE BATTLE OF CODECS THERE IS NO WINNER.
EXCEPT XVID.

CAN YOU SOLVE THE MYSTERY?

Wheee_It's_Me! · Post by **Wheee_It's_Me!** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:40 pm

Tab. wrote:Hold on, hold on. I didn't actually read this crap until now. MY BAD.

Wheee_It's_Me! wrote:What was your source with those two captures? You do know that the quality of MPEG-1 encoding is highly dependant upon the quality of the soruce footage. Xvid is quite good about taking crap and maintaing the same level of quality, when you encode crap with MPEG-1 though yer gonna wind up with even shittier looking crap. If you took the digital master and encoded both of them using MPEG-1 and Xvid, they would look quite similar. Using newer forms of Xvid (anything within the past 2 years or so) the quality of the Xvid encode will be slightly higher, although the difference will be negligable to most. Again though, it's highly dependant on source, which is why encoding in Xvid is superior, because it does a good job of maintaining the same level of shit quality when reencoding.
Can you please point me to the line of logic that leads to something as ridiculous as "mpeg 4 is better at re-encoding than mpeg 1"? Let me guess, you got that from the same source as your "mpeg 4 is more lossy with chroma than mpeg 1" argument, right?

You know Tab, I might be inclined to take you seriously...had I not actually seen your rather pathetic attempt at head motion lip synching. I'm sorry, but OMG does that just look HORRIBLE. I especially like the parts where they talk when there's no lyrics and how their mouths seem to migrate around their head like magic. I mean, what, is it THAT hard to line up the mouth frames? *rolls eyes*

And the way that they're encoded, hell boi, I thought you were like "The Master", so why is the quality of your two vidoes *SO* unbelievably BAD?

Thing of it is Tab, the only thing you're good at is regurgitating crap that you slurped up from your betters over at Doom9, simply put, go get one of them to come over here if you want to see a debate regarding encoding methodology, cause I don't even consider you WORTHY enough for such an endeavor.

AnimeMusicVideos.org

Let's talk advanced encoding, and bitrates :)

Re: Let's talk advanced encoding, and bitrates :)