New Category: Sound Effects

Esrhan · Post by **Esrhan** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:08 pm

New category, technical detail (lip synch, digital effects) or some kind of similiar attribute for audio that includes sound effects?

Example:
- The Real Animatrix
- Search & Destroy

Yes, those two example are mine. I'm not going to search for similiar ones due to obvious reasons...

Grekon · Post by **Grekon** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:42 pm

if i got the idea then also Grand Theft Bebop 2 is for that category...
Something else than just your vids xD

SephirothJenova · Post by **SephirothJenova** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:17 pm

It's hard to figure out what is an effect and what isn't since so many songs on the net/CDs/etc. are remixes. Good category idea, but hard to implement.

Sephiroth

dokool · Post by **dokool** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:21 am

SephirothJenova wrote:It's hard to figure out what is an effect and what isn't since so many songs on the net/CDs/etc. are remixes. Good category idea, but hard to implement.

Sephiroth

It could be an option at the author's discretion, like Effects or Lip-Sync.

I think this could be expanded into "Sound Editing." There are some AMVs that have multiple songs, or songs that have been shortened/expanded. If the transitions/edits in the sound are choppy, then that should be gradable...

-DOKool

Esrhan · Post by **Esrhan** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:32 am

SephirothJenova wrote:It's hard to figure out what is an effect and what isn't since so many songs on the net/CDs/etc. are remixes. Good category idea, but hard to implement.

Actually, I'd say it's harder to interpret than implement, and if it would fall in the same category as "Lip Synch" and "Digital Effects" then there's the issue of rating it.
Are the sound effects well timed, synched, added or should it even be rated with some audio's, as the sound effects are already originally there and you can't do anything about them? Then affecting the sound effects' quality couldn't be up to the editor.

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:22 pm

The problem with sound editing is that when it's very very good, people don't notice it.

Pretty much all of my videos are shortened and sometimes even I forget that the original song had an extra line in a verse or repeated the chorus one more time etc.

It wouldn't be a fair score as it's harder to people to tell if they don't know the source. Digital effects are usually easier (with the exception being things like Playground Love where people don't realise they are looking at 3DCG backgrounds and not film footage).

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:20 pm

Yes, it would be hard to rate if you don't know the source. But then, visual effects can be just as hard for those who aren't familiar with the commonly used effects. Someone who hasn't seen the two anime used in a crossover vid for instance may not even know the characters have been edited into each other's scenes. Someone who hasn't seen FLCL could easily take the source footage to be extensive digital effects - just by thinking of normal anime (I've done this ~_~ ). Layers are very difficult to tell for anime you've never seen - some anime have lots of them already, others have none so any in the vid were added by the creator - but you have to have seen the source to know one way or the other. Even simple vids have this huge margin for error in rating special effects. Fades, zooms, blurs, sharp transitions - all can be found in some anime already. I've done vids where the anime had lots of fades so I didn't have to add any - but those who haven't seen the anime will almost certainly think they were added. The same for vids that are so well edited it looks like the transitions are natural to the footage - so the creator may get no credit at all, even though he added all that flow himself. Only those who've seen the original anime can tell with any certainty.

But we don't let that stop us from using the digital effects rating. I don't see audio effects being any different in the long run. As people become familiar with the commonly used 'effects' - aka shortening songs, layering songs, layering anime audio effects over the song, inserting extra effects not found in either the song or the anime, etc - it would be the same as a person seeing a layer and knowing immediately if it was original in the anime, or added. I doubt the first people scoring digital effects knew what they were looking for. You don't need to know from the beginnng - that's something the amv community as a whole learns to pick up over time. And even then (like digital effects) there are going to be some who miss them just because they aren't familiar with effects or the original sources. That can't be avoided in anything when it comes to video ratings.

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:58 pm

Thing is, video effects are meant to be noticed. If someone can't recognise them or thinks they are there when they are not then that is their problem.

Audio effects are mean't to NOT be noticed as the most common audio manipulation is in things like shortening a song or adding voiceovers. It should seem natural. I've yet to see a video where an audio effect has been used to show off - good audio manipulation sounds like it should be there.

That's the difference and it's a pretty major one. I honestly don't think an extra category will do the videos that have audio effects any good whatsoever because the people writing the reviews will not know what to listen for.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:06 pm

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:Thing is, video effects are meant to be noticed.

Enough said. ^_^;;

I still forget that I'm in the minority to think that the best visual effects are the ones that look 'natural' to the video rather than looking just like what they are - glitter to make the viewer focus solely on the effect and say 'wow, that must have taken forever to do.'

Nevermind.

AbsoluteDestiny · Post by **AbsoluteDestiny** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:09 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
AbsoluteDestiny wrote:Thing is, video effects are meant to be noticed.
I still forget that I'm in the minority to think that the best visual effects are the ones that look 'natural' to the video

So do I but the fact of the matter is that if you spend a lot of time creating a visual manipulation you want people to realise it.

We are video editors, it's what we do.

With audio we are always using music that people haven't heard before. It's really a completely different thing and I stand by the opinion that it will not help anyone's video by having this as a score.