The Distro and DVDs

Red Wolf · Post by **Red Wolf** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:00 pm

For those who don't know me or the Distro my name is Paul (aka Red Wolf) and I run the AMV Distribution Center. Please visit the site for more details but in a nutshell let me say the Distro has been around the block and has proven to be a successful delivery system for AMVs offline.

I am posting here today to get some feedback from the AMV community on a possible new service for the Distro to provide. For personal needs I have recently purchased a Pioneer DVD burner but this burner could now also be used by the Distro. Having spoken with a few supporters of the Distro I have determined that there is an interest on the part of creators to have DVDs of their AMVs distributed. Having established interest (I'm more than sure the fans would be interested) my main issue I want to bring up today is one of method.

Compared to blank CDs, blank DVDs are more expensive and offer a greater range of disc quality and compatibility. Currently the Distro has been able to build a stockpile of blank CDs with donations and good deals on CD-Rs so on the occasion that a burn goes bad I am able to still get the complete request out at virtual no cost. This courtesy is not something that I could continue to extend to DVD requesters for obvious reasons. With this in mind I had two ideas for processing requests but both are outside the normal rules and operation of the Distro and hence the need for public discussion.

DVD Distribution 1: Pay For the DVDs

I will have access to reliable media that I know works with my DVD burner because this is the media I use for personal burning. The easiest way to insure DVD compatibility would be for the Distro to provide the actual DVD media and have the requester submit postage materials and cash to cover the cost of the DVDs. The amount asked for would only be the actual costs of the blank DVD and a jewel case to put it in. Buying quality DVD-R discs in bulk I estimate the cost of each DVD w/case would be around $1.20 - $1.50.

Pros: Controlled system for me and knowing I will be burning quality DVDs that will work at the speed and compatibility necessary. It would also allow me to keep extra burns of the more popular DVDs handy, thus increasing request response time.

Cons: It breaks the Distro's current rule of not charging for distribution. While the Distro wouldn't be making any profit there would still be the exchange of money.

DVD Distribution 2: Burn At Your Own Risk

I could use a method very similar to how I take in CDs. I would dictate DVD type and speed (for those curious it would be 4x DVD-R) and then requesters could send in their own DVDs and postage, thus eliminating the need for money. However, should a DVD burn go bad then the Distro would not be held accountable and the requester would received back the coaster DVD and would assume the cost of that request and any second attempts they wish to make.

Pros: No exchange of money so the Distro can maintain its current policy.

Cons: Requesters will provide incompatible or cheap DVDs and some will not be happy with the results. For those who don't normally buy blank DVDs they will probably end up paying more per disc since they will only be buying small packs.

Personally I prefer option one because it causes the least amount of complications for me. I will point out that paying cost for am AMV DVD at a con seems to be far more tolerated than paying cost for am AMV CD at a con due to the difference in cost of production. But the second option is viable and there may even be other options I haven't thought it. I would appreciate everyone's input on this, especially those interested in submitting or request the DVDs. Please also keep in mind that whatever happens with DVD distribution, the CD distribution will remain as is.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:41 pm

Distro the NES Project DVD and we're all good.

danielwang · Post by **danielwang** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:58 pm

DVDs are *not* that expensive, btw...

A possible way to reduce risk with the second option is having the person send 2 or 3 DVDs. All 3 are sent back, but only one is burnt, unless the first one fails, then the second and third are tried.

You can get DVD drives for very cheap, less than 30 cents, if you buy in uncased bulk and not 5-packs or whatever you get. Round spindles containing 100 or 200, 250 are availible at Costco Wholesale, Metro, etc.

What's your drive's model and firmware? not OEM I hope.

As for me, my setup consists of 3 Pioneer DVR-A03 burners, older and slower but reliable; Fujifilm DVD-R and Japanese/Chinese CD cases (clear, approx 2/3 thickness of American jewelbox).

I used to use Kingston Hypermedia (Khypermedia) discs with thin Scanavo cases, but then I decided that American companies weren't to be trusted with pre-embossed ASIC/leadins (thanks CMC magnetics!). Do NOT use Imation, they're discs have low reflectivity and aren't compatible with older American DVD players - if you hold the disc up to a bright lightbulb, you'll notice light getting through.

Try not to cover the discs, a mod at Doom9 had problems with labels and cheap discs. If you have to label them, make sure the disc is balanced perfectly (these spin real fast) and

I also like giving people an Asian standard jewel case that's (2/3)'s as thick, longer than their usual Jewel case but shorter than DVD alpha cases. It doesn't fit into their collection, unless they're otaku and buy direct imports and/or resemble a house.

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:42 pm

As long as your burner can read +Rs, I'm fine to send in a DVD

My A06 won't burn DVD-Rs at more than 2x with hacked firmware, so I choose DVD+Rs for 4x burning (I got a spindle of 50 Memorex DVD+Rs at Best Buy for $49.99 -- they were on sale)

Red Wolf · Post by **Red Wolf** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:03 pm

danielwang wrote:DVDs are *not* that expensive, btw...

A possible way to reduce risk with the second option is having the person send 2 or 3 DVDs. All 3 are sent back, but only one is burnt, unless the first one fails, then the second and third are tried.

I just bought 100 Sony 32x CD-Rs for $25 and 100 Ritek 4x DVD-Rs for $100. Both were purchased from sales from reputable online venders without any rebate. I wouldn't trust any blank DVD that is a lot less than $1 (let alone $0.30) so I would say that quality DVD-Rs are a good bit more expensive than quality CD-Rs. Personally I think 100 good DVD-Rs for $100 is a good deal given how much data storage use I'll get out of them but in comparision to CD-Rs it can be as much as 4 times more expensive and the Distro is not going to send out crappy DVDs.

I do like your idea of mailing multiple blank DVDs, though. Perhaps something where the requester has to send one DVD per request but they are advised to send a few back up blanks and all unused discs would be returned. It raises postage by a few cents but is much better than sending out a request and not getting anything back.

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:As long as your burner can read +Rs, I'm fine to send in a DVD

My A06 won't burn DVD-Rs at more than 2x with hacked firmware, so I choose DVD+Rs for 4x burning (I got a spindle of 50 Memorex DVD+Rs at Best Buy for $49.99 -- they were on sale)

My burner is also a Pioneer DVR-A06 (retail box version). For those interested LiveWarehouse is selling them for $145 w/free shipping and a $30 mail in rebate from Pioneer. I would normally want to stick with DVD-R. It is more compatable with DVD players and since I'm on a Mac that is the "supported standard." However I will be using Toast Titanium for the burning and Toast does support DVD-R and DVD+R. I guess my answer to your request for DVD+R is a question: Can I take a DVD-R master and copy it to DVD+R and vise versa? If so then I wouldn't mind looking into more DVD+R support, especially if I end up taking in the original DVDs.

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:08 pm

I'd have to look it up, but I believe you can take say a +r and copy onto a -r. They're essentially both the same thing, same structure I mean, I think the only difference is the dye or something.

Oh and

http://avlogic.com/product.cgi?code=18030076

$117 - free shipping

Same exact place I got mine at, but for $33 less

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:05 pm

If the RIAA's $10 000 reward for stopping CD bootleggers can extend to cover this DVD, I sware to god, I'll report it in.

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:28 pm

You're a fucking bitch, Izumi. You ruin an AMV Distro Center 'cos RedWolf may charge for DVDs with FREE NON-COPYWRITED AMVs. You ruin everything, Izumi, you bitch.

DJ_Izumi · Post by **DJ_Izumi** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:31 pm

Only if the $10 000 reward applies. Though I'm pretty sure that it dosn't, I think that only those reproducing identical copies of retail audio CDs apply.

klinky · Post by **klinky** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:38 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:If the RIAA's $10 000 reward for stopping CD bootleggers can extend to cover this DVD, I sware to god, I'll report it in.

Seriously Izumi take a chill pill...

The ORG charges "Donations". To download. Yeesh...

I would love an option where I could just pay a couple dollars and get a few discs sent out instead of having to go through the hassle of sending DVDs out in a large envelope and the double shipping costs this involves. If he can get the high quality DVDs at a cheap price, that are garunteed to work, I would just rather do that.

It's logic Izumi, not some whacko greed on RedWolf's part and he's certainly worked quite hard on the project. If there was any $$$ left over I think he should atleast get himself and ice cream cone :p